Why India National Anthem has word "Sindh"

[Joe Shearer]

It is implying that there is a God - even if its implying its the cookie monster that is a violation of secularism. Secularism mandates that the government neither acknowledge nor deny the existence of a God - for the purposes of governance, God should have no role.

You're denying the right of the atheists to state there is no God.

Apparently, you are unaware of the South Asian use of the term, quite distinct from the western (European, Anglo-American, Australasian) usage. In South Asia, secular is taken to mean all-inclusive, at the theistic level. Atheism and agnosticism have never been widely recognised as valid or given space.

This use of secular may not be pleasing. It is not one with which I personally hold, as I have made clear time and again in my posts on PTH. However, as YLH and others have explained, however faulty, this meaning of secularism is what prevails. Unfortunate.

Your questioning of Indian 'secularism' on the grounds that the national anthem refers to a deity is without merit for this reason.

Because of which, it still faces criticism, however just like any other country, their religious fundamentalists won't allow that to change.

The forces opposed to a change include the political constituency of the Indian National Congress. Whatever its faults, it can hardly be considered a gathering of religious fundamentalists.

That's just stupid rigidity. Also the petition should be to drop Tagore's poem altogether and get in a more Indian poem. Editing an existing poem would still mean that the spirit in which the original was written, is being acknowledged by Indians - praise to their colonial master, the 'Dispenser of India's destiny'.

About it being stupid rigidity, you are of course entitled to your opinion, and of course, you are entitled to free speech. PDF is remarkably refreshing in that respect. I might consider the remark stupid meddling with something that is really nothing to do with you, but then free speech is remarkably free.

Your knowledge of India and influence groups and bodies of opinion seems unusual. Perhaps it is in that spirit of blithe ignorance that you have overlooked that Tagore's father and grandfather were leaders of a monotheistic religious movement which broke away from Hinduism and stands apart as a separate religion. Considering the form in which they worshipped God, as Infinite Singularity - immanent and transcendant, Singular, Author and Preserver of Existence - He who is manifest everywhere and in everything, in the fire and in the water, in the smallest plant to the mightiest oak, interpreting the Bhagya Vidhata is also quite easy.

For the same reason, you will readily understand that religious fundamentalists - by which you presumably refer to Hindu and Muslim bigots and regressives - will not have any reason to support Tagore's God, which is so alien to anything that they worship.

 

[Joe Shearer]

As if they are already not imposing vandemataram on everyone

No, 'they' are not.

I have never heard it sung in any of the five schools I attended, although in the Sainik School, thanks to the nutty Lt. Col. who was our principal, we sang all five verses of Jana Gana Mana instead of the National Anthem, only the first verse.

I have never heard it sung at a public function, nor sung it myself, although I know the words to both the songs, and sing the National Anthem whenever it is sung.

Why are you saying something that is so completely untrue? And to what purpose? Have you heard the songs? Or know the words? If you haven't heard Vande Mataram (I have, but not as a national hymn, its correct name), how do you know if it is offensive or not?

Do you know what the song was originally?

 

[StingRoy]

I studied few years in an Indian school and had to sing this matarm every morning! It was a perfect pledge of hypocrisy me being a Pakistani.

No one forced you to go to an Indian school ... was it? You went there because your parents thought that was the best option.. so stop complaining. I am sure you wouldn't have complained if you were an Indian Muslim... neither of my muslim friends in India did.

 

[Kambojaric]

Why we continue to have word "Sindh" in Our National Anthem as its no longer part of India?

Why do you call yourself Indian? The word India (hind) is derived from Sindh as well

 

[VermillionTilak]

Why do you call yourself Indian? The word India (hind) is derived from Sindh as well

We call ourselves "Indians" because our civilization has emerged from the Indus Valley hence the name India, and by meaning "us" I mean Indians and Pakistanis for that matter. Unless of course you believe you are decendents of Arabs

 

[third eye]

We have discussed this some time ago.

The same senseless arguments and nit picking. The national anthem is close to the hearts of all Indians and no one has the right to ridicule it least of all a non Indian. I find it most motivating and proudly stand up & sing it like all others would do to their national anthems.

If the interpretation of god in the anthem is seen as anti secular than so be it , similarly Indian schools surely did not compel anyone to join. Why the fuss ?

Also I do not understand the logic of questioning the Indian national anthem by an Indian on a Pakistani forum.

 

[Ganguly]

If you read the whole song (5 verses) then the song is no doubt is a prayer song praising the eternal Lord. If you read the 4th verse of the song, here Bharat Bhagya bidhata is depicted as female (Tumi Mata). King George could not be female, however someone now may argue it).
To finish this article with a quote from Tagore.

“To be outspoken is easy when you do not wait to speak the complete truth”- Tagore

 

[Kambojaric]

We call ourselves "Indians" because our civilization has emerged from the Indus Valley hence the name India, and by meaning "us" I mean Indians and Pakistanis for that matter. Unless of course you believe you are decendents of Arabs

Why should i believe i am a descendent of arabs? if you didnt notice i was actually taking your side by pointing out to the author that if he is dumb enough to say sind should be removed from the Indian national anthem because it is no longer in India then similarly he should stop calling himself Indian because the word India also has roots in Pakistan.

 

[WHF]

Not again man. we have debated it to death and it clearly proves its against secular rules and claims by India.

What is Hypocrisy ??

A pakistani teaching the world the meaning of secularism..

 

[VermillionTilak]

Why should i believe i am a descendent of arabs? if you didnt notice i was actually taking your side by pointing out to the author that if he is dumb enough to say sind should be removed from the Indian national anthem because it is no longer in India then similarly he should stop calling himself Indian because the word India also has roots in Pakistan.

Let's say modern day Pakistan, as Pakistan never existed before 1947

It was all one land, seperated by religion pretty much.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

Hindi speaking state as in Bihar, UP and MP? UP was a princely state probably called Awadh and Bihar was included in Bengal Presidency at that time. Vindhya relates to MP and as some poster mentioned Yamuna and Ganga relates to Bihar, UP. Why do you think out of all rivers he mentioned Yamuna and Ganga specifically?

To all : there is a clarification here......the National Anthem mentions the two rivers Ganga and JAMUNA not Yamuna even though several times I ve noticed people pronounce it as such.....


guys JAMUNA is the bengali description for the River Brahmaputra....

as is prevalent in East Bengal even today......

I believe by the Word Jamuna Tagore includes the present Indian States of the Entire NorthEast ( Assam and the others).......

 

[Joe Shearer]

This thread has become a complete waste of time.

 

[baconlover]

I'm f**king confused....so the anthem is in Bengali ? is there a Hindi version?
if not, goes that mean not ALL Indians know how to read/sing it ?

 

[FNFAL]

^^ no its in sanskrit written by a bengali...

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

I'm f**king confused....so the anthem is in Bengali ? is there a Hindi version?
if not, goes that mean not ALL Indians know how to read/sing it ?

Oh now for god's Sake....its in SANSKRIT but people tend to pronounce it differently based on the state where they come from....and their mother tongue.........

edit : Some dudes happen to point out that it is Sanskritized Bangla ...which is true but the Tatsama loan words used are universally used in Indic languages like Hindi,Gujraati etc.....and the pronunciation will always differ.....