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Why India has to remain engaged with Pakistan

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India has to remain engaged with Pakistan despite provocations : Opinion - India Today

India's newest mantra is to 'Make in India', but not, it seems, either love or peace. Love is not love if the lover is Muslim, the beloved Hindu; it then becomes jihad, the making of war, not love. The loathing many Hindus harbour for India's Muslim heritage, but cannot openly express, is poured out into Pakistan, the neelkanth for this poison. With which, it seems, peace cannot be made unless there is peace.

If our national mission is to First Develop India, Pakistan seems irrelevant. It is neither a market nor a competitor, not a source of either investment or technology. As we drive ahead, Pakistan is not in our sights, not even in our rear view mirror. Not only do we have a larger territory, and therefore the strategic depth which the Pakistan Army pursues like a chimera, our population is six times as large, our economy eight times larger. And because Pakistan's economy has been stagnant for almost two decades, while India's is accelerating again after a five-year lull, the gap widens every year. Even those who propped Pakistan up as a counter-weight to India during the Cold War have long since realised that it is not. So why, we ask, do Pakistanis not see this, even when their noses are rubbed in it?

The fact is they do. Our mistake is in damning as a homogeneous glob of evil a country of 200 million people, almost all of whom simply want to get on with their lives. They may fear India, but very substantial numbers know how far Pakistan lags behind. They also accept that their problems are their own, not the result of our machinations. In Pakistan now, there is little of the open hostility towards India that there is towards Pakistan here. The educated and the business community want to engage with a resurgent India. Indians who contest this have not followed the last two elections there. There were no dire invocations of a foreign hand, no chest-thumping, no jingoism. The two major parties raised India only to pledge that they would work for peace with it.

Pakistan's political leaders have walked the talk. Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif's coming to his Indian counterpart's inauguration, over the opposition of his army but with the blessings of his political opponents and the media, showed how far Pakistan and its civilian leaders have changed. Before that, in 2008, President Asif Zardari set off shock waves when he told the Indian media that he "dreamed of a day when Pakistan would be a force multiplier for India". It took extraordinary courage to say what no Indian leader would of Pakistan or of any other country, but it also raised not a whisper of protest in Pakistan. That panicked its army into the extraordinary attacks it then launched through its proxies, starting with our embassy in Kabul and culminating with Mumbai.

It is this dichotomy between the interests of Pakistan's army and of its citizens that we do not recognise and factor into our decisions. We should be doing everything we can to debunk its claim that India remains a threat, against which it is a shield. Our reacting to firing across the LoC and international border by letting rip with machine guns and mortars, killing civilians in Pakistan, is precisely what the army there wants us to do. It does not inhibit or weaken the generals, it props them up. Our policy of "aggressive defence" is, like all oxymorons, sagely unwise.

So is the received wisdom in Lutyens' Delhi that terrorism out of Pakistan is the most serious threat to India's security, and that there can be no question of our exploring a normal relationship until it stops. On Pakistan, sadly, Homo Lutyens is rarely sapient. We cannot quarantine ourselves from Pakistan. Good counter-in-telligence work will reduce the number of attacks, as it has after Mumbai, but while its army remains unregenerate, these won't stop. What, then, are our options?

After the Mumbai attack, FICCI asked a panel of experts, some of whom now advise this government, to study the threats terrorism posed to India. Three of them were retired police officers, all held in very high esteem. Their recommendations ranged from deniable covert action to economic sanctions to targeted cross-border strikes. These are now again bandied about, but none is viable.

Deniable covert action means doing to Pakistan what its terrorists do to us. This would be a mistake. We would fight Pakistan's army on its terms, kill innocent Pakistanis and harry the civilian government, harming and alienating those who want peace. Economic sanctions are meaningless when we have hardly any trade with Pakistan and no investments there. Cross-border strikes against a nuclear-weapon state are so fraught with risk that even the United States, as angry as we are with Pakistan, rarely tried despite the attacks on its forces in Afghanistan. And an international crisis causes infinitely more damage to India than to Pakistan, as Operation Parakram proved in 2002. These are fantasies, not policies.


It is also mulish to tie our relations with Pakistan to the resolution of a single issue, as Pakistan did for decades, insisting that everything must wait until Kashmir was resolved. We argued then that this was nonsensical between neighbours with a host of common problems and interests. Most Pakistanis now accept that argument; we have embraced that of their army.

So where, on a scale of threats to Indian citizens, does terrorism rank? Data collated by the South Asia Terrorism Portal shows that in 2009, 721 Indians were killed by terrorists, 759, 429, 252 and 304 in the next four years, and very few of these deaths could be attributed to Pakistan-159 of the 304 victims in 2013 were killed by left-wing extremists, 95 died in Assam, Manipur, Meghalaya and Nagaland, and 30 in Andhra Pradesh, Bihar and West Bengal; in Jammu and Kashmir, where Pakistan's terrorists mostly operate, the toll was 20. The same year, Pakistani terrorists killed 3,001 innocent Pakistanis. Pakistan is indeed the epicentre of terrorism the point from which destructive forces radiate, but which suffers the worst damage. The almost quotidian carnage in Pakistan is largely ignored in the Indian media and brushed aside by our talking heads, but the terrible outrage at Wagah has perhaps made us realise what the common citizen and the government there are dealing with.

Terrorism has a political fallout that domestic crime rarely does, but only peace will completely stop terrorism from Pakistan. In turn, this will happen if its army plays along, which it will either because a general is in power, or because a civilian government is strong enough to control it, or because it sees its interests served by peace. If a coup is unlikely, since the army does not want to be saddled with governance in Pakistan's parlous state, it is in our interest to do what we can to help the civilian leadership strengthen itself vis-Ã -vis the generals. That demands a continuous engagement, despite the provocations that the opponents of peace will throw up.

But we can also explore ways of sweetening the pill for its army. When General Pervez Musharraf persuaded his army that peace was unavoidable, Pakistanis said the proof lay in the fact that its officers bought up the land flanking the road leading from Wagah. The Pakistan Army has huge commercial and industrial interests. Its officers, who receive large land grants, farm for profit. We can, for example, buy cement from its two commercial foundations, wheat to top up our stocks, reducing the speculative hoarding in our Punjab that drives prices up, and set up plants with them in Sindh to generate power from Pakistan's enormous lignite reserves, importing the electricity without increasing our carbon footprint.

The diehards cannot be bought off but we can try to persuade the rest of Pakistan's army that peace with India has its uses. We had started to do this in the mid-2000s. Our present policy of silence and violence is ill-advised machismo that only saps the constituency for peace across the border, while bringing joy to the warmongers. Of course, we cannot let our guard down, nor will we, but neither can we intimidate the zealots in the Pakistan Army. We have to try to isolate them by engaging with the rest. This will be difficult but diplomacy is not about preaching to the converted.

Satyabrata Pal was India's high commissioner to Pakistan from 2006 to 2009
 
.
As usual, an Indian article with a severe misunderstanding of Pakistani internal politics. That part with Zardari just cracked me up, it couldn't be any further from the truth. 'not even a whisper of protest' :rofl:
I guess people were too busy screaming 'Zardari kutta' at the top of their voices to even notice his little 'statement'.
The rest of it is full of the typical Indian propagandized mindset about the evil, murderous Illuminati Pakistan Army.

And 'Pakistan is indeed the epicentre of terrorism the point from which destructive forces radiate', seriously? Pakistan's terrorism is majority from Afghanistan and recently some Uzbeks. On the other hand, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan are unfortunately terrorist breeding grounds. Only blind Indians can consider Pakistan the 'epicentre' of terrorism.
Pakistan has plenty of terrorists but it isn't the 'epicentre' by far.

almost quotidian carnage in Pakistan is largely ignored in the Indian media
largely ignored in the Indian media
On which planet? The Indian media produces these kind of articles like a bull on laxatives. If anything here is 'quotidian' it's Indian propaganda.

I might as well write down a standard copy-paste-able response for everytime such an article comes up, they're all full of the same BS.
 
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Pakistan has plenty of terrorists but it isn't the 'epicentre' by far..

So how far is Pakistan being " epicenter " of terrorism ?

and by the way that phrase is also used by your closest ally - US and many other countries in the world .

and ever since the world's most wanted Terrorist was found cozily living near headquarter of your military ...that fact has been proven amply .

" The Central man of global terrorism at the very epicenter of terrorism "

No he was not found in caves of Afghanistan or deserts of Syria ...he was found in military town of Pakistan- the land of pure .

Just type " Pakistan epicenter " in google ...the rest of the phrase " of terrorism " pops up
 
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talking to Pakistan is a waste of time and resources...............which can be done on other useful much needed stuff......nothing has came out of talks

how evr trade can be exception
 
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Another Indians supa PAWA thread. India is not even close to Somalia in terms of development yet thinking they are something special...

Difference between India and China

India -

Will accomplish in 30 years by forecast

China -

Already accomplished
 
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talking to Pakistan is a waste of time and resources...............which can be done on other useful much needed stuff......nothing has came out of talks

how evr trade can be exception

I believe the money being wasted in hosting Pakistan diplomats should be used in another mars mission. :smart:
 
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So how far is Pakistan being " epicenter " of terrorism ?
Very far.

and by the way that phrase is also used by your closest ally - US and many other countries in the world .
Closest ally my ***. The US used to claim to be Iraq's closest ally. And who cares what westerners say, they have no idea what they're talking about. Fox news might say it, doesn't mean its true. It's total BS. There is absolutely no way in hell that Pakistan is more dangerous or full of terrorism than Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Nigeria, South Sudan, Somalia, Central African Republic and so on. Matter of fact is that you can drive around in Pakistan perfectly safely but you can not in any of the countries I mentioned above. It is also a fact that Pakistan has an efficient security force and military which is working very much on stopping terrorism.


ever since the world's most wanted Terrorist was found cozily living near headquarter of your military
You mean that sick old guy who was hiding miles away from a military academy? It is not 'headquarter' and it is not 'cozily living'.


The Central man of global terrorism at the very epicenter of terrorism "
Central man? Central man? You mean the half-dead old guy who was in hiding for a decade? He was no central man, he was nothing, just a face. He could have been dead 10 years ago and the world's terrorism would be the same. He did not control anything. He did not even do anything after 9/11. Heck we don't even know if he did 9/11, everyone just believed him because he said so.

No he was not found in caves of Afghanistan or deserts of Syria ...he was found in military town of Pakistan- the land of pure .
Abbottabad is not a military town, I don't give a damn what your propagandist media spoon feeds the likes of you, it's still Bull. Doesn't matter how many people repeat it, it's still false.
 
. .
Another Indians supa PAWA thread. India is not even close to Somalia in terms of development yet thinking they are something special...

Difference between India and China

India -

Will accomplish in 30 years by forecast

China -

Already accomplished
India is not even close to Somalia
Considering India is growing at a better pace than Pakistan
So.....we all can deduce that Somalia is better than Pakistan
And secondly
what r u.....a Chinese cheerleader
 
Last edited:
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India is not even close to Somalia
Consider India is growing at a better pace than Pakistan
So.....we all can deduce that Somalia is better than Pakistan
And secondly
what r u.....a Chinese cheerleader

Somalia, Ethiopia, Niger should all be compared to India as they are all brother countries
 
.
Somalia, Ethiopia, Niger should all be compared to India as they are all brother countries

:lol: check it here
2014heatmap.png
 
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India's newest mantra is to 'Make in India', but not, it seems, either love or peace. Love is not love if the lover is Muslim, the beloved Hindu; it then becomes jihad, the making of war, not love. The loathing many Hindus harbour for India's Muslim heritage, but cannot openly express, is poured out into Pakistan, the neelkanth for this poison. With which, it seems, peace cannot be made unless there is peace.

If our national mission is to First Develop India, Pakistan seems irrelevant. It is neither a market nor a competitor, not a source of either investment or technology. As we drive ahead, Pakistan is not in our sights, not even in our rear view mirror. Not only do we have a larger territory, and therefore the strategic depth which the Pakistan Army pursues like a chimera, our population is six times as large, our economy eight times larger. And because Pakistan's economy has been stagnant for almost two decades, while India's is accelerating again after a five-year lull, the gap widens every year. Even those who propped Pakistan up as a counter-weight to India during the Cold War have long since realised that it is not. So why, we ask, do Pakistanis not see this, even when their noses are rubbed in it?

The fact is they do. Our mistake is in damning as a homogeneous glob of evil a country of 200 million people, almost all of whom simply want to get on with their lives. They may fear India, but very substantial numbers know how far Pakistan lags behind. They also accept that their problems are their own, not the result of our machinations. In Pakistan now, there is little of the open hostility towards India that there is towards Pakistan here. The educated and the business community want to engage with a resurgent India. Indians who contest this have not followed the last two elections there. There were no dire invocations of a foreign hand, no chest-thumping, no jingoism. The two major parties raised India only to pledge that they would work for peace with it.

Pakistan's political leaders have walked the talk. Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif's coming to his Indian counterpart's inauguration, over the opposition of his army but with the blessings of his political opponents and the media, showed how far Pakistan and its civilian leaders have changed. Before that, in 2008, President Asif Zardari set off shock waves when he told the Indian media that he "dreamed of a day when Pakistan would be a force multiplier for India". It took extraordinary courage to say what no Indian leader would of Pakistan or of any other country, but it also raised not a whisper of protest in Pakistan. That panicked its army into the extraordinary attacks it then launched through its proxies, starting with our embassy in Kabul and culminating with Mumbai.

It is this dichotomy between the interests of Pakistan's army and of its citizens that we do not recognise and factor into our decisions. We should be doing everything we can to debunk its claim that India remains a threat, against which it is a shield. Our reacting to firing across the LoC and international border by letting rip with machine guns and mortars, killing civilians in Pakistan, is precisely what the army there wants us to do. It does not inhibit or weaken the generals, it props them up. Our policy of "aggressive defence" is, like all oxymorons, sagely unwise.

So is the received wisdom in Lutyens' Delhi that terrorism out of Pakistan is the most serious threat to India's security, and that there can be no question of our exploring a normal relationship until it stops. On Pakistan, sadly, Homo Lutyens is rarely sapient. We cannot quarantine ourselves from Pakistan. Good counter-in-telligence work will reduce the number of attacks, as it has after Mumbai, but while its army remains unregenerate, these won't stop. What, then, are our options?

After the Mumbai attack, FICCI asked a panel of experts, some of whom now advise this government, to study the threats terrorism posed to India. Three of them were retired police officers, all held in very high esteem. Their recommendations ranged from deniable covert action to economic sanctions to targeted cross-border strikes. These are now again bandied about, but none is viable.

Deniable covert action means doing to Pakistan what its terrorists do to us. This would be a mistake. We would fight Pakistan's army on its terms, kill innocent Pakistanis and harry the civilian government, harming and alienating those who want peace. Economic sanctions are meaningless when we have hardly any trade with Pakistan and no investments there. Cross-border strikes against a nuclear-weapon state are so fraught with risk that even the United States, as angry as we are with Pakistan, rarely tried despite the attacks on its forces in Afghanistan. And an international crisis causes infinitely more damage to India than to Pakistan, as Operation Parakram proved in 2002. These are fantasies, not policies.


It is also mulish to tie our relations with Pakistan to the resolution of a single issue, as Pakistan did for decades, insisting that everything must wait until Kashmir was resolved. We argued then that this was nonsensical between neighbours with a host of common problems and interests. Most Pakistanis now accept that argument; we have embraced that of their army.

So where, on a scale of threats to Indian citizens, does terrorism rank? Data collated by the South Asia Terrorism Portal shows that in 2009, 721 Indians were killed by terrorists, 759, 429, 252 and 304 in the next four years, and very few of these deaths could be attributed to Pakistan-159 of the 304 victims in 2013 were killed by left-wing extremists, 95 died in Assam, Manipur, Meghalaya and Nagaland, and 30 in Andhra Pradesh, Bihar and West Bengal; in Jammu and Kashmir, where Pakistan's terrorists mostly operate, the toll was 20. The same year, Pakistani terrorists killed 3,001 innocent Pakistanis. Pakistan is indeed the epicentre of terrorism the point from which destructive forces radiate, but which suffers the worst damage. The almost quotidian carnage in Pakistan is largely ignored in the Indian media and brushed aside by our talking heads, but the terrible outrage at Wagah has perhaps made us realise what the common citizen and the government there are dealing with.

Terrorism has a political fallout that domestic crime rarely does, but only peace will completely stop terrorism from Pakistan. In turn, this will happen if its army plays along, which it will either because a general is in power, or because a civilian government is strong enough to control it, or because it sees its interests served by peace. If a coup is unlikely, since the army does not want to be saddled with governance in Pakistan's parlous state, it is in our interest to do what we can to help the civilian leadership strengthen itself vis-Ã -vis the generals. That demands a continuous engagement, despite the provocations that the opponents of peace will throw up.

But we can also explore ways of sweetening the pill for its army. When General Pervez Musharraf persuaded his army that peace was unavoidable, Pakistanis said the proof lay in the fact that its officers bought up the land flanking the road leading from Wagah. The Pakistan Army has huge commercial and industrial interests. Its officers, who receive large land grants, farm for profit. We can, for example, buy cement from its two commercial foundations, wheat to top up our stocks, reducing the speculative hoarding in our Punjab that drives prices up, and set up plants with them in Sindh to generate power from Pakistan's enormous lignite reserves, importing the electricity without increasing our carbon footprint.

The diehards cannot be bought off but we can try to persuade the rest of Pakistan's army that peace with India has its uses. We had started to do this in the mid-2000s. Our present policy of silence and violence is ill-advised machismo that only saps the constituency for peace across the border, while bringing joy to the warmongers. Of course, we cannot let our guard down, nor will we, but neither can we intimidate the zealots in the Pakistan Army. We have to try to isolate them by engaging with the rest. This will be difficult but diplomacy is not about preaching to the converted.

Satyabrata Pal was India's high commissioner to Pakistan from 2006 to 2009

LOL
Media Jehadi's at it again ..... find a UPA lover and rant away ....
Notice how the article starts with abusing the Majority religion ..... Trademark Media Jihadi....

Anyway new defence minister is not that C***tiya AK "Pakistan ki uniform pehen ke" Antony or that congress gotra wala Jaitley

Its Parrikar ... no non sense technocrat :D
and south inidan = no latent love for pak :D
 
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Somalia, Ethiopia, Niger should all be compared to India as they are all brother countries
But sadly India is currently being compared with China and US......and is expected to overtake them by 20 50
 
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Fcking BullShit..... Shining Shuper Dhuper Power India What kind of shuper power you are? YAWN YAWN YAWN....
 
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