Why don't many Muslims in South Asia have family names?

[Old School]

It is a well known fact that a lot of Muslims in South Asia are converts. However, it appears that during the conversions, not only the first names but also they have changed their tribes/family names into generic Arbo-Persian names. There is no way to trace their family history or ancestral roots other than their own claims. The family or caste history is simply erased ! On the other hand , many of the Muslims in Punjab and Sindh have well retained their pre-islamic family names with no problem. I was wondering why is this practice of changing family names during conversions ? Is it to hide certain caste identities to avoid social stigmas?

 

[Cherub786]

It is well known fact that a lot of Muslims in South Asia are converts. However, it appears that during the conversions, not only the first names but also they have changed their tribes/family names into generic Arbo-Persian names. There is no way to trace their family history other than their claims. On the other hand , many of the Muslims in Punjab and Sindh have well retained their pre-islamic family names with no problem. I was wondering why is this practice of changing family names during conversions ? Is it to hide certain caste identity?

That's a good question. My dad is a Hyderabadi Deccani, here are our names

my name: Mohammed Abdul Khader
my dad's name: Mohammed Zakiullah
my grandfather's name: Mohammed Samiullah
my great grandfather's name: Mohammed Abdul Khader

I don't know why but as you can see in our family tradition we don't have family surnames, and there is no indication of our caste in our name, it's just a generic Arabic name.

I also asked my dad once what our caste is, and he said "we don't have caste", we are just Urdu speaking Hyderabadi Muslims, we don't even know much about our ancestors except they were probably Hindus.
I am planning on doing a DNA ancestry test soon, then maybe I'll get some answers about my ancestral roots.

 

[gangsta_rap]

Why don't Italians use roman names anymore?
Why don't the English use saxon names anymore?

 

[RealNapster]

@Cherub786 you should not be giving your family details on an online forum.

1. This information can be used to harm you in some way.

2. Sharing personal details on forum is not allowed. ( If I remember correctly).

 

[Old School]

That's a good question. My dad is a Hyderabadi Deccani, here are our names

my name: Mohammed Abdul Khader
my dad's name: Mohammed Zakiullah
my grandfather's name: Mohammed Samiullah
my great grandfather's name: Mohammed Abdul Khader

I don't know why but as you can see in our family tradition we don't have family surnames, and there is no indication of our caste in our name, it's just a generic Arabic name.

I also asked my dad once what our caste is, and he said "we don't have caste", we are just Urdu speaking Hyderabadi Muslims, we don't even know much about our ancestors except they were probably Hindus.
I am planning on doing a DNA ancestry test soon, then maybe I'll get some answers about my ancestral roots.

Correct. Everyone in the Sub-continent belonged to some castes even in the pre Islamic time. Even Arabs, Persians and Mongols have family surnames too.

 

[Cherub786]

@Cherub786 you should not be giving your family details on an online forum.

1. This information can be used to harm you in some way.

2. Sharing personal details on forum is not allowed. ( If I remember correctly).

My name and ethnic background is hardly personal detail. Nonetheless, I am a public figure since I'm a mazhabi rehnuma, so if it wasn't against the rules, I would even be willing to share my address and image

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Correct. Everyone in the Sub-continent belonged to some castes even in the pre Islamic time. Even Arabs, Persians and Mongols have family surnames too.

So What's your points??

 

[عقاب]

what i perceive is that the lower castes in the hindu culture were ill treated,
even in todays south asian muslim societies the cast system has got value, people of certain castes consider themselve as having magnificence over the other
I Wonder if they did not change their tribal/caste names , they might still be known as converts, havind hindu background, while those having arab background could feel superior

 

[Old School]

So What's your points??

I was trying to find the true cause of missing surnames. That is all.

what i perceive is that the lower castes in the hindu culture were ill treated,
even in todays south asian muslim societies the cast system has got value, people of certain castes consider themselve as having magnificence over the other
I Wonder if they did not change their tribal/caste names , they might still be known as converts, havind hindu background, while those having arab background could feel superior

Many Punjabis have retained their old hindu/ Jat surnames though without problems.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

I was trying to find the true cause of missing surnames. That is all.

brother, if you change your religion such as Islam in the subcontinent mostly new people of Islam you probably must change all your names because some names are not allowed in Islam such as "Murti" and probably new comer in Islam will be not to consider in out side the Islam

 

[El Sidd]

It is a well known fact that a lot of Muslims in South Asia are converts. However, it appears that during the conversions, not only the first names but also they have changed their tribes/family names into generic Arbo-Persian names. There is no way to trace their family history or ancestral roots other than their own claims. The family or caste history is simply erased ! On the other hand , many of the Muslims in Punjab and Sindh have well retained their pre-islamic family names with no problem. I was wondering why is this practice of changing family names during conversions ? Is it to hide certain caste identities to avoid social stigmas?

What could one do with names glorifying Ishtar, Anubis, Tengri or Bal or Ulgan or Maya?

Are surnames dedicated to tribe or titular surnames Halal?

 

[WinterFangs]

tbh for me my parents or grandparents never really told me my background, all I know is at one point some part of my family were sikh, from my dads side, maybe a few hundred years ago, however my family still keep their caste name, as a title i guess.

 

[Cherub786]

tbh for me my parents or grandparents never really told me my background, all I know is at one point some part of my family were sikh, from my dads side, maybe a few hundred years ago, however my family still keep their caste name, as a title i guess.

I learned recently that apparently a lot of Pakistani people are descended from ex-Sikhs, which is fascinating considering that Sikhism is a newer religion. It seems that Sikhism was a vehicle for moving Indians to Islam, like a stepping stone: Hindu -> Sikh -> Muslim

 

[WinterFangs]

I learned recently that apparently a lot of Pakistani people are descended from ex-Sikhs, which is fascinating considering that Sikhism is a newer religion. It seems that Sikhism was a vehicle for moving Indians to Islam, like a stepping stone: Hindu -> Sikh -> Muslim

I guess it also depends on the area they lived before migrating to Pakistan, my mum side always lived in Kashmir (mirpur) , however for my dads side they migrated from Amritsar during partition, in fact it was a Sikh family who saved my great grandfather and grandfather during partition by hiding them in a closet.

 

[Bossman]

Most of English sir names are not really family names but represent occupation or color such as Thatcher, Smith, Carter, Baker or Brown. The Scots did a better job with sir names because of the clans. In pre British India the upper class Muslim had very long titles and names. The concept of first name, middle name and sir name is a very English concept. In the pre-British time the naming convention was driven by the father’s name, the tribe and the belief.