Why doesn’t everyone study the West, like we study Ancient Egypt?

[Khalid Newazi]

You still don't get it.In today's world he who innovates and leads in technology,leads the world.That "he" isn't you and by the looks it you won't be for a long time.

The World is still the same.

Take for example, you a UK company created a mobile phone charger that uses body heat to charge phone and thus never needs to be connected to an electrical outlet ever again. This charger will give you an edge over competitors. But mass producing of the charger in the UK will cost you $45 but in China it will cost $20 as they have cheaper labour lower tax rates and government restrictions on workplace environment and the actual environment, they also have the minerals that are required to make the product available. Your advertising cost is always the same i.e $6 per unit. People aren't willing to pay more than $50 and thus you have to make a choice, either make a loss of $1 or a profit of $24. You will choose China because you are looking to make profit.

This is how manufacturing still rules the World not innovation because each innovation i.e made for public use needs to be manufactured for the use of the masses.

 

[syedali73]

You still don't get it.In today's world he who innovates and leads in technology,leads the world.That "he" isn't you and by the looks it you won't be for a long time.

Commendable argument though you ignored former USSR.

 

[flamer84]

The World is still the same.

Take for example, you a UK company created a mobile phone charger that uses body heat to charge phone and thus never needs to be connected to an electrical outlet ever again. This charger will give you an edge over competitors. But mass producing of the charger in the UK will cost you $45 but in China it will cost $20 as they have cheaper labour lower tax rates and government restrictions on workplace environment and the actual environment, they also have the minerals that are required to make the product available. Your advertising cost is always the same i.e $6 per unit. People aren't willing to pay more than $50 and thus you have to make a choice, either make a loss of $1 or a profit of $24. You will choose China because you are looking to make profit.

This is how manufacturing still rules the World not innovation because each innovation i.e made for public use needs to be manufactured for the use of the masses.

You don't immediately mass produce any innovation in China.Once you have it first,it takes time for others to have it,and that time gives you the edge over others...and profits.The economic crisis is just that,an economic crisis which have been met before,even from the tullip drop in the Netherlans in the 18th century which left many bankrupt,to the one in 1933.It doesn't take away the scientifical edge the West has.Plus,many so much praised developing countries still hit an economic stagnation when they hit a 6k-10k GDP per capita and you woder why countries with 30k-50k per capita encounter problems.Many countries growth is just because the West outsourced labour to them not because they brought something at "humanity's table".An example of countries that "brought something" is Japan,or South Korea.You're acting out just out of petty envy and frustration but that won't change the world we live in.

Commendable argument though you ignored former USSR.

While strong in the military field of development the USSR was lacking in civilian applications ,unlike the West.This happenned because of what i've said earlier,when you "organise" people towards a programmed goal you'll destroy free thinking and innovation even if you achieve that goal.

As @gambit often likes to put it....why couldn't the USSR build a microwaven ?

 

[syedali73]

As @gambit often likes to put it....why couldn't the USSR build a microwaven ?

Throughout Afghan war, Russian domestic appliances were sold (smuggled from Afghanistan) in Pakistan. I have been a user of many of those appliances ranging from minced meat machines, to air conditioners, for they were dead cheap and dead robust, built to last forever. The highlighted part maybe sarcasm but far from reality, if I got it right.

 

[flamer84]

Throughout Afghan war, Russian domestic appliances were sold (smuggled from Afghanistan) in Pakistan. I have been a user of many of those appliances ranging from minced meat machines, to air conditioners, for they were dead cheap and dead robust, built to last forever. The highlighted part maybe sarcasm but far from reality, if I got it right.

But it is reality ,they couldn't build it.And their inferiority in civilian technology was also a reality,sometimes translated in military inferiority because often one leads to another.Not that people weren't excelently tutored,mathematicians,chemists from the ussr,E. Europe were clearing medals in international competitions but when you "cage" a human beeing in a closed intelectual environment you are not able to exploit its full potential.

On topic,what the OP is saying is let's take all the scientific development from the West but maintain our 7 century culture.Gee,why didn't the rest of us think of that ?.....Well no,it's an inbuilt system unfortunately,a whole package.

 

[Gibbs]

Funny thread this.. Bashing Western civilization in a internet forum typing in English.

 

[syedali73]

But it is reality ,they couldn't build it.And their inferiority in civilian technology was also a reality,sometimes translated in military inferiority because often one leads to another.

Based on my personal experience using Russian domestic appliances, I do not find myself in agreement with you. Russian products were relatively crude (just like Russians are) compared to their Western counterpart, but they were designed to work and last forever. Russian technology was at par if not more advanced than her Western counterparts. @vostok

Funny thread this.. Bashing Western civilization in a internet forum typing in English.

You'll appreciate more if I start typing in Urdu?

 

[gambit]

Throughout Afghan war, Russian domestic appliances were sold (smuggled from Afghanistan) in Pakistan. I have been a user of many of those appliances ranging from minced meat machines, to air conditioners, for they were dead cheap and dead robust, built to last forever. The highlighted part maybe sarcasm but far from reality, if I got it right.

Actually...I asked why the microwave oven did not came from the Soviet Union ?

To really 'came from', the thing must have its conceptual and engineering origins from a source. Sure, the Soviet Union could build the microwave oven, but how the Soviet Union was politically and socially, something like the microwave oven could not have it conceptual origin from there, let alone the engineering origin to make it a viable CONSUMER device.

 

[flamer84]

Based on my personal experience using Russian domestic appliances, I do not find myself in agreement with you. Russian products were relatively crude (just like Russians are) compared to their Western counterpart, but they were designed to work and last forever. Russian technology was at par if not more advanced than their Wester counterparts. @vostok

You'll appreciate more if I start typing in Urdu?

I don't understand you and i admit i get a little bit iritated when people waste my time-.On one part you admit that their products were relatively crude as opposed to western ones,on the other you argue that they were better.That's a flaw in your logic.This whole crude and designed to last forever is exactly what slowed growth.If you have a crude object that lasts forever in market that doesn't fight for competitors you're much less likely to be in a continuous search for progress.In the Western system the minds were always at work competing to make things better...for eventual profit ofcourse.Still....they couldn't produce a microwave oven,you're not really answering this small part either.

 

[vostok]

Based on my personal experience using Russian domestic appliances, I do not find myself in agreement with you. Russian products were relatively crude (just like Russians are) compared to their Western counterpart, but they were designed to work and last forever. Russian technology was at par if not more advanced than her Western counterparts. @vostok

Western civilization is dying. After a few generations our descendants will study Western civilization as Egypt or Rome or Greece.
As for Russian weapons - anecdote:
If you want quality weapons, buy German.
If you want cheap weapon - buy Chinese.
If you are preparing for war - buy Soviet.
One state - the Soviet Union, could not resist for decades to all the power of a united West, not having the same level of technology, or better.

 

[flamer84]

Western civilization is dying. After a few generations our descendants will study Western civilization as Egypt or Rome or Greece.
As for Russian weapons - anecdote:
If you want quality weapons, buy German.
If you want cheap weapon - buy Chinese.
If you are preparing for war - buy Soviet.
One state - the Soviet Union, could not resist for decades to all the power of a united West, not having the same level of technology, or better.

Russ Bear STRONKKKKK, West be dead....

@vostok 's whole online speach.Quality stuff......

 

[syedali73]

I don't understand you and i admit i get a little bit iritated when people waste my time-.On one part you admit that their products were relatively crude as opposed to western ones,on the other you argue that they were better.That's a flaw in your logic.This whole crude and designed to last forever is exactly what slowed growth.If you have a crude object that lasts forever in market that doesn't fight for competitors you're much less likely to be in a continuous search for progress.In the Western system the minds were always at work competing to make things better...for eventual profit ofcourse.Still....they couldn't produce a microwave oven,you're not really answering this small part either.

1. On wasting your time... Please don't come to the forum if you only want to hear favorable opinions.

2. I never said that they products were crude yet better. My sentence reads: "Russian products were relatively crude (just like Russians are) compared to their Western counterpart, but they were designed to work and last forever."

By crude I meant not much attention was paid to their outlook rather performance and longevity.

3. Russians did not lose in a fight of technology per se hence your argument that Russian technology was inferior does not hold much water.

 

[flamer84]

1. On wasting your time... Please don't come to the forum if you only want to hear favorable opinions.

2. I never said that they products were crude yet better. My sentence reads: "Russian products were relatively crude (just like Russians are) compared to their Western counterpart, but they were designed to work and last forever."

By crude I meant not much attention was paid to their outlook rather performance and longevity.

3. Russians did not lose in a fight of technology per se hence your argument that Russian technology was inferior does not hold much water.

1.You're wasting my time when your own rhetoirc just contradicts you.And no,they were not better ,i lived under communism,more importantly my parents did and i know the difference.

2.Russians were technologically inferior and they are today,from the military to most of the civilians aplications.That's not even up for debate.Here we're just debating why they were so.

3.Why do you think Russian,Eastern European products couldn't compete with Western ones after 1990 ??? Take a wild guess....they were inferior !!

4.Ofcourse you know better than the whole market and millions of people who lived under it to know the difference......you've bought some things from A'stan

5.Why are you calling that vostok dude ? He only parrots scripted lines over and over again.If presented proofs that's just "Western propaganda" or "Goebbels propaganda",lol....Debate with that bott ? No can do Scooby Doo.

 

[syedali73]

1.You're wasting my time when your own rhetoic just contradicts you.And no,they were not better ,i lived under communism,more importantly my parents did and i know the difference.

2.Russians were technologically inferior and they are today,from the military to most of the civilians aplications.That's not even up for debate.Here we're just debating why they were so.

1. Please don't read my posts and reply to them if you find it waste of your time; it is as simple as this.

2. Your injured ego is hindering you from comprehending my arguments that are put together in fairly standard English. Your issue is not Russian technology, but your resentment (which maybe justifiable) against Russia and any and everything related to Russia.

 

[gambit]

The Yugo ? We have shitty cars but dang -- the Yugo quickly became the only car for those who cannot afford one of our shitty cars.

No...Soviet bloc consumer products would have no chance on the Western free market system where the consumers have the power of the purse. That is why communist countries can only foist their crap on each other. When I played tourist in East Germany when it existed, the East Germans wanted my Levi's jean, not just because it is a status symbol, but because they knew that it was superior to what they have on their markets.