Why does Kashmir only belong to Muslims?

[JattPunjabi]

There are significant minorities of Sikhs, Hindus and Buddhists in Kashmir so why should only Muslims decide the fate of Kashmir. I highly doubt that the minorities in Kashmir want to join Pakistan or have an independant country. I think the logic of most Kashmir secessionist supporters(Pakistanis) is flawed.

 

[Armstrong]

I think no one said 'Kashmir Only Belongs to the Muslims' !

Kashmir is a Muslim Majority State & so naturally if the majority of the Muslims were asked to decide 'India, Pakistan or Independence' & were a Plebiscite to that effect be carried out, their vote would have the largest leverage in deciding the final fate of Kashmir.

 

[JattPunjabi]

I think no one said 'Kashmir Only Belongs to the Muslims' !

Kashmir is a Muslim Majority State & so naturally if the majority of the Muslims were asked to decide 'India, Pakistan or Independence' & were a Plebiscite to that effect be carried out, their vote would have the largest leverage in deciding the final fate of Kashmir.

I understand that but this isn't like a election where the majority decide for everyone. This isnt deciding who the MP of chief minister is but what country you belong too which is a big deal for a lot of people. For example Palestine is 99% Muslim and they ALL want a free Palestine which is the reason a lot of people understand the situation. However in the case of Kashmir you have different people with different opinions so too say outright that Kashmir doesn't belong to India is stupid in my opinion.

 

[Armstrong]

I understand that but this isn't like a election where the majority decide for everyone. This isnt deciding who the MP of chief minister is but what country you belong too which is a big deal for a lot of people. For example Palestine is 99% Muslim and they ALL want a free Palestine which is the reason a lot of people understand the situation. However in the case of Kashmir you have different people with different opinions so too say outright that Kashmir doesn't belong to India is stupid in my opinion.

On an individual level one may decide whatever the hell one wants to decide but if you're going to decide something at a collective level I can't think of any alternative to the 'Democratic Process' !

The way I see it, you've got two options :

(i) Sell the idea of 'Kashmir as being a prosperous & peaceful part of India with all of the grievances & the alleged grievances of the Local Populace addressed' so that if a Plebiscite does take place, the Majority of the People of Kashmir & by default Muslims, vote for India !

(ii) Because Democracy doesn't mean 'Consensus' & you think that the Non Muslim Minorities in Kashmir would loose out on their ambition for Kashmir's future solely on the basis of numerical inferiority, you could use your bargaining power in the present to enact a solution that is more acceptable to you ! Of the top of my head :

(a) A dismemberment of Kashmir & the absorption of the Jammu & Ladakh into the Union of India as a separate State ! Naturally neither Pakistan nor the UN would accept that but right now India's strategic & economic nuisance value allows it to get away with Murder - So why not use it ?

(b) Agree to a Plebiscite on Kashmir but make it contingent on the different Administrative Units of Kashmir (GB, AJK, Jammu, Kashmir Valley, Ladakh etc.) been given the option of deciding their fate on an individual basis as opposed to the whole State of Jammu & Kashmir ! But I don't think that India would be willing to negotiate that either seeing that India doesn't gain anything on a 'Net' basis from it & would possibly end up loosing the Kashmir Valley to Independence or to a lesser extent Pakistan, as a result !


But of course all of this is 'extremely theoretical' !

 

[kaykay]

There are significant minorities of Sikhs, Hindus and Buddhists in Kashmir so why should only Muslims decide the fate of Kashmir. I highly doubt that the minorities in Kashmir want to join Pakistan or have an independant country. I think the logic of most Kashmir secessionist supporters(Pakistanis) is flawed.

Besides it was the same Kashmiri muslims who kicked Kashmiri Pundits out of the valley. I think Kashmiri Pundits were and are as Kashmiri as Muslims from valley.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Because the victims of sikandar butshikan today feel compelled to carry out his unfinished work, such are the forever condemned, such is the power of cultural subjugation.

 

[JattPunjabi]

On an individual level one may decide whatever the hell one wants to decide but if you're going to decide something at a collective level I can't think of any alternative to the 'Democratic Process' !

The way I see it, you've got two options :

(i) Sell the idea of 'Kashmir as being a prosperous & peaceful part of India with all of the grievances & the alleged grievances of the Local Populace addressed' so that if a Plebiscite does take place, the Majority of the People of Kashmir & by default Muslims, vote for India !

(ii) Because Democracy doesn't mean 'Consensus' & you think that the Non Muslim Minorities in Kashmir would loose out on their ambition for Kashmir's future solely on the basis of numerical inferiority, you could use your bargaining power in the present to enact a solution that as more acceptable to you ! Of the top of my head :

(a) A dismemberment of Kashmir & the absorption of the Jammu & Ladakh into the Union of India as a separate State ! Naturally neither Pakistan nor the UN would accept that but right now India's strategic & economic nuisance value allows it to get away with Murder - So why not use it ?

(b) Agree to a Plebiscite on Kashmir but make it contingent on the different Administrative Units of Kashmir (GB, AJK, Jammu, Kashmir Valley, Ladakh etc.) be given the option of deciding their fate as opposed to the whole State of Jammu & Kashmir ! But I don't think that India would be willing to negotiate that either seeing that India doesn't gain anything on a 'Net' basis from it & would possibly end up loosing the Kashmir Valley to Independence or to a lesser extent Pakistan, as a result !


But of course all of this is 'extremely theoretical' !

You put forward a strong and well thought out argument however too try and sell Kashmir as a peaceful and prosperous part of India would be impossible until the flow of militants into the area is stopped. They are fuelling anti India sentiments and creating hate in the various communities.

I know democratic option seems like the best option however there's a reason that Scotland hasn't had a referendum yet. Scotland like Kashmir is divided. Even if the majority of people decide to leave you also have the Kashmiri Pandits and Sikh communities who have lived their for centuries. How would they feel being part of a Islamic state that would more than likely be infested with militants. Maybe it seems like the best option but it would cause a lot of problems.

I think your right about Jammu and Ladakh staying part of India but Kashmir as always is debatable. Whatever the case it can't remain in the current situation.

 

[JattPunjabi]

Besides it was the same Kashmiri muslims who kicked Kashmiri Pundits out of the valley. I think Kashmiri Pundits were and are as Kashmiri as Muslims from valley.

Exactly my point. At one point Kashmiri pandits made up 40% of the region so they and there descendants have just as much right to speak on the issue and I doubt they want to leave India.

 

[Armstrong]

Even if the majority of people decide to leave you also have the Kashmiri Pandits and Sikh communities who have lived their for centuries. How would they feel being part of a Islamic state that would more than likely be infested with militants. Maybe it seems like the best option but it would cause a lot of problems.

If they've got reservations than they should use the enormous leverage their current position affords them to either change the minds of the Muslims of Kashmir or by choosing to go their own separate way like we did in '47 !

I dunno what else to tell you.

 

[JattPunjabi]

If they've got reservations than they should use the enormous leverage their current position affords them to either change the minds of the Muslims of Kashmir or by choosing to go their own separate way like we did in '47 !

I dunno what else to tell you.

Umm..I agree with you on that aspect but I'm only an outsider on the issue who has never been too Kashmir so I think we should let the people and both governments find a solution one day god willing.

 

[livingdead]

Umm..I agree with you on that aspect but I'm only an outsider on the issue who has never been too Kashmir so I think we should let the people and both governments find a solution one day god willing.

will you be happy if kashmir is broken like India/pak..

 

[karan.1970]

If they've got reservations than they should use the enormous leverage their current position affords them to either change the minds of the Muslims of Kashmir or by choosing to go their own separate way like we did in '47 !

I dunno what else to tell you.

Now extrapolate this to the whole of India. If some Muslim Indian citizens who live in Kashmir want to join Pakistan, they should use the enormous leverage their current position affords them to either change the minds of rest of the citizens of India or by choosing to go their own separate way like other Muslims did in 1947.

Just like Kashmiri Pundits and Sikhs are a minority in Kashmir, Kashmiri muslims are a minority in India. Just like you are offering KPs and Sikhs an option to either stay with the majority or leave their lands and go away, we are offering the same options to Kashmiri Muslims..

 

[Armstrong]

Now extrapolate this to the whole of India. If some Muslim Indian citizens who live in Kashmir want to join Pakistan, they should use the enormous leverage their current position affords them to either change the minds of rest of the citizens of India or by choosing to go their own separate way like other Muslims did in 1947.

Just like Kashmiri Pundits and Sikhs are a minority in Kashmir, Kashmiri muslims are a minority in India. Just like you are offering KPs and Sikhs an option to either stay with the majority or leave their lands and go away, we are offering the same options to Kashmiri Muslims..

What leverage would the people of a disputed territory hold over a status quo power ?

 

[karan.1970]

What leverage would the people of a disputed territory hold over a status quo power ?

The same that a small population of Kashmiri Pandits and Sikhs (yours truly included) would have over a majority Muslim population of Kashmir.

 

[Armstrong]

The same that a small population of Kashmiri Pandits and Sikhs (yours truly included) would have over a majority Muslim population of Kashmir.

The Kashmiri Pundits & Sikhs don't hold any leverage over the majority Muslim Population of Kashmir but over the Federal Government & the Military Establishment because that trio are of one mind on the final settlement of the Kashmir Issue !

There is no parallel between the two !