Why do people in subcontinent marry cousins?

[Kavin]

@Indian members
When a Pakistani member calls us 'Hindus' we object 'No, we're Indians'. But when thread starter asks 'why do people in subcontinent marry cousins', most of the Indian members get angry and say 'No, we HINDUS don't marry cousins', forgetting Muslims and South Indians.

In South India a man can marry his mother's brother's daughter / father's sister's daughter / and even sister's daughter.

I'm against such marriages. I see almost all disabled / special children are from these families. I beleive my eyes not religion and science.

 

[VrSoLdIeRs]

1 in 3 children in the United Kingdom who are physically or mentally retarded are Pakistani.

There are 61 million people in the UK. There are 1 million Pakistani's in the UK.

Seriously, there is something wrong with this picture.

any proof of your 1 in 3 theory???

 

[VrSoLdIeRs]

and why cant we relate the disabled children to lack of nutrition, unavailability of clean water, mothers not having proper food and other 'real' issues like that!!!!

 

[justpk]

and why cant we relate the disabled children to lack of nutrition, unavailability of clean water, mothers not having proper food and other 'real' issues like that!!!!

there surely are other issues, and reason such as malnutrition, smoking, drinking etc during pregnancies to cause problems, but marriages withing family also is...and the topic is about discussing that, and not other reasons for issues with kids. many here want to close the eyes to the fact that marriages in cousins (blood relation) can have issues...

i hope someone from medical background on this forum comes and talks abt it.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

because cousins tend to interact more with each other ..!

They need to be educated that inbreeding is dangerous.

Where as close cousins marriges are supposed to be the main reason of heriditery diseases in the next generation. Like a generation out of marrige of close cousins is more proge to have diseases like Heart Disease and Diabaties.. Studies have proven it .

 

[T-Faz]

there surely are other issues, and reason such as malnutrition, smoking, drinking etc during pregnancies to cause problems, but marriages withing family also is...and the topic is about discussing that, and not other reasons for issues with kids. many here want to close the eyes to the fact that marriages in cousins (blood relation) can have issues...

i hope someone from medical background on this forum comes and talks abt it.

Yes, Recessive genetic disorders are a common trait of marriages between cousins.

Basically this occurs when a child inherits two copies of a same variant of a gene found in their parents. We all have two copies of all genes and some people have a variant gene and its very unlikely that unrelated people can both have a variant gene. Where as cousins are much more likely to have a similar variant. Having one variant does not cause any problems.

Two similar variants transferred onto a baby and here comes the illness.

Very common in South asians especially in UK as they migrated there a long time ago and only married in their cousins because they were the only people they know of similar background.

Variant gene is the reason why Shoaib went to Hyderabad in India to find a bride for himself. Less chance of problems for his children and grandchildren.

 

[Pakistani_Athiest]

marriage between cousins is decling in pakistan becasue the people are beginning to realize the medical side effects of doing this. Marriage between cousins is popular in the punjab area of pakistan and the mirpur area of azad kashmir.

I doubt that bro. Most of Pakistanis opposing interbreeding are from the US. Count the number of Pakistanis in this thread that supported inbreeding! Here is the thing. As long as religion permits it, they will do it. No matter what science says. I've posted several dozen links of scientific work as proof. And people still ask for proof!

Here is the proof that 1 in 3 Pakistanis in UK are born with disabilities, by the way: Minister warns of ‘inbred’ Muslims - Times Online

 

[Pakistani_Athiest]

and why cant we relate the disabled children to lack of nutrition, unavailability of clean water, mothers not having proper food and other 'real' issues like that!!!!

What does it take to make an issue 'real' for you?

a) Proofs based on scientific Research?
b) It being written in 'Quran'?

If it's a, I've furnished plenty. If it's b, I cannot get you any.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Total bull crap the only medical problems that happen is when ppl have kids in British hospitals and there is no care for Pakistani clients

Also miscarriges are more if women is working while pregnent. ALso complicaion and health issues are caused also by stress and other health matters.

In our family side we had 1000+ births and may be 1 case of autism like symptons but that was more due to birth at a older age...

Nothing to do with family based marriges.

West just wants us totally lose our family values and family system



Athiest Bhiya why don't you explain why are there so many Autistic children in western society when they are marrying mix and match system ? And Asthma (Breathing problems) etc

Are you gona blame every thing on - proper marriges based on Pakistani culture or will you still advocate that no we must start dating to fix a problem that has never been a problem

Physical disableties and issues are part of humanity

There are STRICT rules to not marry immediate brother/sister (As was common in Pharoh society) from same parent and also same STRICT rules for Parents with chidren (As was common in Pharoh society)

I think being overseas when you see every one else mix and match 20-30 partners you kinda feel you also have to do it to fit in , and to justify things you force yourself to beliving that k there must be scientific reason ...

Mean while what you don't realize is that Men who go thru Divorce , Breakups and bad relationships in western mix and match system tend to have

a) Horrible health
b) More baggage psychalogical problems which lead to other ... performance issues

Its just your opinion that has been formed based on where you live

1-2% chance of problems in pregnency is even present with mix and match marriges (or relationships with no husband in some cases) .....

lol ...

 

[Pakistani_Athiest]

Total bull crap the only medical problems that happen is when ppl have kids in British hospitals and there is no care for Pakistani clients

The medical treatment a Pakistani gets in the west is FAR FAR better than what we get in Pakistan. I've lived in UK and I am in the US right now, I can vouch for that. Most Pakistanis are working, so they have EXCELLENT top-notch health-care plans as a part of their employment package.

In our family side we had 1000+ births and may be 1 case of autism like symptons but that was more due to birth at a older age...

As a society becomes more and more educated, more cases are reported, but even beyond that there is a specific problem in the west, which I will discuss below.

Athiest Bhiya why don't you explain why are there so many Autistic children in western society when they are marrying mix and match system ? And Asthma (Breathing problems) etc

Many reasons.

1) In Pakistan most of such cases go unreported.
2) Teenage pregnancies in the US.
3) Food farming through inorganic means.

I think being overseas when you see every one else mix and match 20-30 partners you kinda feel you also have to do it to fit in , and to justify things you force yourself to beliving that k there must be scientific reason ...

Is that what you are told in Pakistan? That's not true.

Apart from that, all that non-sense about divorcing and promiscuity, why bring that up? What makes you think I support he western culture in those aspects?

West just wants us totally lose our family values and family system

So not interbreeding = losing family values eh?

So the rest of us who don't want to marry our cousins are complete douches who sleep around with '20-30' people, divorce a lot and have kids with autism. Is that what you are saying?


@Freekin

I had a similar experience. My cousin's parents were so interested in marrying her to me. Mostly because I am a US citizen and she can get a Green Card. But the shamelessness and the promiscuity with which the whole issue was handled was horrible. I had to literally tell them that she is pretty much like a sister and that to me it's gross, disgusting and unacceptable. Even tell them that, I would be ashamed to introduce her to my friends as my wife, if we had gotten married.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The medical treatment a Pakistani gets in the west is FAR FAR better than what we get in Pakistan. I've lived in UK and I am in the US right now, I can vouch for that. Most Pakistanis are working, so they have EXCELLENT top-notch health-care plans as a part of their employment package.




As a society becomes more and more educated, more cases are reported, but even beyond that there is a specific problem in the west, which I will discuss below.



Many reasons.

1) In Pakistan most of such cases go unreported.
2) Teenage pregnancies in the US.
3) Food farming through inorganic means.



Is that what you are told in Pakistan? That's not true.

Apart from that, all that non-sense about divorcing and promiscuity, why bring that up? What makes you think I support he western culture in those aspects?



So not interbreeding = losing family values eh?

So the rest of us who don't want to marry our cousins are complete douches who sleep around with '20-30' people, divorce a lot and have kids with autism. Is that what you are saying?


@Freekin

I had a similar experience. My cousin's parents were so interested in marrying her to me. Mostly because I am a US citizen and she can get a Green Card. But the shamelessness and the promiscuity with which the whole issue was handled was horrible. I had to literally tell them that she is pretty much like a sister and that to me it's gross, disgusting and unacceptable. Even tell them that, I would be ashamed to introduce her to my friends as my wife, if we had gotten married.

Well you just lived in a culture which made to feel as if your cousin was your biological sister - and that is it ...

A biological sister is only the one that is born to your mother - hope that clears up any issues

But hey if it makes you feel good with your friends in where ever you live - its fine , like I said there is no pressure

Just like in Pakistan many cases of abuse are unreported same is case in Britain , US or Canada of strange abuse cases -

As for as feeling someone as your sister , well you can even call someone you met online "Apa" but that does not means she is you "Apa", She might even have a marrige certificate by your name so you got to be careful

Part of the problem of this exist in Pakistani community is becasue kids are living and growing up in different society so they start to adapt to cultural and social setup of societies they live in ....

Some ppl even call eating food with hand gross and they can't eat food with out spoon and fork etc

Again , its a very delicate issue, main point is

a) As long as you differentiate between your real broher and sister
but if you have feeling of uncomfort its your own personal choice.

b) Alot of families are quite happy to marry ppl with in tribes becasue
they know the character and social values of the couple are close
to each other

I am actually a advocate of marrying outside but I see no harm in our existing setup both systems are good

You have full right as an adult to choose your partner but to disrespect other ppl who do not agree with your idea of marrying is perhaps not ideal case.

Is Pakistan perfect socially ? No
Is any place else any better ? Not really

All societies have their ups and down , its up to individual people to help fix social issues.

As for the health care system , its another issue

I know alot of people who do not like the western health care system where you can't even get a anti biotic drug administered you unless you go to doctor 10 times and after the 9th visit they will tell you ok ... I think you might be right ... let me give you few anti biotic drugs. But they will let you go thru 10 xray scans and 3 other test just to crank up the bill and send it to Gov....

In Pakistan its simple, you have illness you go doctor , he gives you bill you pay doctor and you buy medicine ... and you come home 1 visit

 

[VrSoLdIeRs]

What does it take to make an issue 'real' for you?

a) Proofs based on scientific Research?
b) It being written in 'Quran'?

If it's a, I've furnished plenty. If it's b, I cannot get you any.

i think i made myself pretty clear in what 'real' meant....

2ndly why dont you take in view the problems i wrote earlier, btw i belong to a very rural background, the population of my village would be around 500-700 but till date i have only witnessed one such case with a mental disability, couple of cases of physical deformation... Seeing is believing!!!

 

[FreekiN]

any proof of your 1 in 3 theory???

It's not a theory, it's a fact.

A minister has rightly highlighted the issue of the dangers of marrying one’s cousin, a practise especially prevalent amongst those of Pakistani origin in the UK:

“A government minister has warned that inbreeding among immigrants is causing a surge in birth defects – comments likely to spark a new row over the place of Muslims in British society.

Phil Woolas, an environment minister, said the culture of arranged marriages between first cousins was the “elephant in the room”. Woolas, a former race relations minister, said: “If you have a child with your cousin the likelihood is there’ll be a genetic problem.”

Medical research suggests that while British Pakistanis are responsible for 3% of all births, they account for one in three British children born with genetic illnesses.”

This is a problem derived from Pakistani cultural norms, as the minister points out. Sadly, many in the media have chosen to once again make this a Muslim issue; it is not, it is a cultural issue. Those Pakistanis just happen to be Muslims. It is a great shame that the media cannot report such things nowadays without having to crowbar in ‘Muslim’ or ‘Islam’ into the title. One might put it down to ignorance, but in fact it is down to sensationalism. ‘Muslim’ sells papers.

This inbreeding trend is a real problem, and can only be solved by those of Pakistani descent themselves, even if doctors and other professionals highlight the dangers of inbreeding at every opportunity. Making it a ‘Muslim’ issue will only harden the hearts of those who will suffer most, as their siege mentality with regards to their religion will be reinforced.

Labour MP Ann Cryer, who often talks a lot of sense, supported the minister:

“The call for action was also supported by Labour MP Ann Cryer who raised the issue two years ago after research showed British Pakistanis were 13 times more likely to have children with recessive disorders than the general population. Mrs Cryer, who represents Keighley in West Yorkshire, told the Sunday Times: “This is to do with a medieval culture where you keep wealth within the family.”

“I have encountered cases of blindness and deafness. There was one poor girl who had to have an oxygen tank on her back and breathe from a hole in the front of her neck,” she added. “The parents were warned they should not have any more children. But when the husband returned from Pakistan, within months they had another child with exactly the same condition.”

Research for BBC2’s Newsnight in November 2005 showed British Pakistanis accounted for 3.4% of all births but have 30% of all British children with “recessive disorders”.”

Update: As Bartholomew has pointed out below, the real problem comes from generations of marrying one’s cousins. This should not negate the minister’s warnings however, as it is directed at those who are prone to marry their cousins, thus continuing the cycle of babies who are being born with increased chances of disabilities.

Source: Pickled Politics

I don't understand why you people deny science just because something is religiously acceptable?

Better be safe than sorry.

 

[VrSoLdIeRs]

It's not a theory, it's a fact.



I don't understand why you people deny science just because something is religiously acceptable?

Better be safe than sorry.

because unlike some people i have seen plenty of cousin marriages happening

2ndly talking about that 'fact' of yours can you please mind telling me where did this 'medical research' occur?? 1 in 3 is a huge ratio, i have survived 2 years in UK but unlike your 'fact' was unable to find even one mentally disabled person... on the other hand i didnt interact with many people as well so giving the benefit of the doubt i will be waiting for the reference to that research!!!

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

It's not a theory, it's a fact.



I don't understand why you people deny science just because something is religiously acceptable?

Better be safe than sorry.

Definition of Recessive Disorder:
A genetic disorder is an illness caused by abnormalities in genes or chromosomes. While some diseases, such as cancer, are due in part to a genetic disorders, they can also be caused by environmental factors. Most disorders are quite rare and affect one person in every several thousands or millions.

What that means is disorders can be caused by external factors , stress etc or lifestyle or may be genetics in some form

And such happens 1/1,000,000

Now when you look the diseases under

Recessive disorder

a) Heart Problems
b) Asthma
c) Cancer

etc

These are pretty common in all Humans weather they were married to cousins or not ....

Reality:
Europe's fertility rate is under 1 child per couple and muslim families have fertility rate of 3-4 children per couple

So obviously the focus in europe will be to minimize muslim family sizes to 1 child and alo prevent marriges or help delay it , delays in processing wife of people visa issuance etc

Now if you would like to follow the bandwagon pleas go ahead ...
be my guest like I said earlier there is 100% nothing wrong in marrying outside of your inner circle.

Provided both parties agree 100% The main focus should be on consent not idealogical excuses , she is like my apa or my this and that ...if you like her get married if not don't just maintain some level of privacy

Most of the time ppl like to explore and that is part of being human