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Why Do Americans Hate Beheadings But Love Drone Killings?

First, I would ask which incident that was, just out of curiosity. However, my position wouldn't change. If the U.S. had attacked the seminary with the intent of killing these boys, then there is no defense. However, with a beheading there is no question of who the target is and what the Intent behind it is.

The US targets anyone who is a male over the age of 15. That is the description of a 'potential target' according to Drone operators who went public. 168 Pakistani children have been documented as killed in Obama's drone strikes till 2010-11. If you seriously think that the US didn't 'target' them, then i have no more to add into this debate.

168 children killed in drone strikes in Pakistan since start of campaign - Telegraph
 
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Did you read the part about Pakistani military operations in that report?

I did. Pakistan Army is not a foreign power. Its operating on its own territory and is not a belligerent attacking another soverign state. For every op carried out a resettlement was provided. Its collectively the largest IDP resettlement in recent history anywhere in the world. If certain tribes or affiliates refuse to vacate the area and choose to shelter the militants then its their own fault.
 
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Pretty good shootin' to me.:usflag:

Pakistan: 3 Percent of Drone Deaths Were Civilians


drone-attacks-380x253-ts300.jpg

Associated Press | Oct 30, 2013 | by Sebastian Abbot and Munir Ahmed
ISLAMABAD - The Pakistani government said Wednesday that three percent of the people killed in U.S. drone strikes since 2008 were civilians, a surprisingly low figure that could alter the highly negative public perception of the attacks.

The number, which was provided by the Ministry of Defense to the Senate, is much lower than past government calculations and estimates by independent organizations. The ministry said 317 drone strikes have killed 2,160 Islamic militants and 67 civilians since 2008.

The attacks are widely disliked in Pakistan, where many people believe they violate the country's sovereignty and kill too many innocent civilians. The Pakistani government regularly criticizes the drone program in public, even though it is known to have secretly supported at least some of the strikes in the past.

Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif pressed President Barack Obama to end the attacks in a visit to the White House last week, but the U.S. gave no indication it was willing to abandon the attacks, which it views as vital to its battle against al-Qaida and the Taliban.

It's unclear how the Pakistani public will respond to the new government data, and there was also no indication why it seems to differ so much from past government calculations and outside estimates.


A U.N. expert investigating drone strikes, Ben Emmerson, said earlier this month that the Pakistani Foreign Ministry told him that at least 400 civilians have been killed by the attacks in the country since they started in 2004.

Emmerson called on the government to explain the seeming discrepancy, saying the figures provided by the Foreign Ministry since 2004 indicated a much higher percentage of civilian casualties.

"If the true figures for civilian deaths are significantly lower, then it is important that this should now be made clear, and the apparent discrepancy explained," Emmerson said in an email sent to The Associated Press.

The Bureau of Investigative Journalism, based in London, has estimated that at least 300 civilians have been killed by drones in Pakistan since 2008, while the Washington-based New America Foundation put the figure at 185 civilians. These estimates are often compiled based on media reports about the attacks.

Pakistan's figure for total deaths, 2,227, is lower than some other totals, although not to the same degree as its figure for civilians. The Washington-based New America Foundation has a total of 2,651 people killed in drone strikes in Pakistan since 2008, while the Long War Journal website has 2,493.

Compiling the accurate number of civilian casualties from drone strikes is hampered by the danger of traveling to the remote tribal region where they take place.

The U.S. rarely speaks publicly about the CIA-run drone program in Pakistan because it is classified. But officials have insisted in private that the strikes have killed very few civilians and that estimates from the Pakistani government and independent organizations are exaggerated.

Amnesty International called on the U.S. to investigate reports of civilians killed and wounded by drone strikes in Pakistan in a report released earlier this month that provided new details about the alleged victims of the attacks, including a 68-year-old grandmother killed while farming with her grandchildren.

Mamana Bibi's grandchildren told the London-based rights group that she was killed by missile fire on Oct. 24, 2012, as she was collecting vegetables in a family field in the North Waziristan tribal area, a major militant sanctuary near the Afghan border. Three of Bibi's grandchildren were wounded in the strike, as were several others who were nearby, the victims said. Bibi's relatives testified before members of the U.S. Congress on Tuesday.

An even deadlier incident noted by the report occurred in North Waziristan on July 6, 2012. Witnesses said a volley of missiles hit a tent where a group of men had gathered for an evening meal after work, and then a second struck those who came to help the wounded, one of a number of attacks that have hit rescuers, the rights group said.

Witnesses and relatives said that total of 18 male laborers with no links to militant groups died, according to Amnesty. Pakistani intelligence officials at the time identified the dead as suspected militants.

Contrary to the information outlined in the report, the Pakistani government said Wednesday that there were no civilian casualties in 2012. The government said 21 civilians were killed in 2008, nine in 2009, two in 2010 and 35 in 2011. No civilians have been killed so far in 2013, the defense ministry said.

Amnesty did not immediately respond to request for comment on the government data.

The government also said "terrorist" attacks have killed 12,404 people and wounded 26,881 others since 2002, although these figures were disputed by some of the members of the Senate. The government has been battling an insurgency by the Pakistani Taliban, which seeks to topple the country's democratic system and impose Islamic law. It was not clear if the figure involved only attacks on civilians, or also included attacks on security forces.

A roadside bomb killed five soldiers and wounded three others Wednesday in the South Waziristan tribal area, the Pakistani Taliban's main sanctuary before the army conducted a large ground offensive in 2009, said military officials. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity in line with military policy.

Also Wednesday, a bomb exploded in a market in southwestern Pakistan, killing two people and wounding at least 20 others, said police official Ahmad Raza. The attack occurred in Quetta, the capital of Baluchistan province. The province is home to both Islamic militants and separatists who have waged a low-level insurgency against the government for decades.

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Associated Press writer Abdul Sattar contributed to this report from Quetta.


© Copyright 2014 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
 
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The US targets anyone who is a male over the age of 15. That is the description of a 'potential target' according to Drone operators who went public. 168 Pakistani children have been documented as killed in Obama's drone strikes till 2010-11. If you seriously think that the US didn't 'target' them, then i have no more to add into this debate.

168 children killed in drone strikes in Pakistan since start of campaign - Telegraph

I would very much like to see this statement by the drone operators regarding targeting males over 15. I can't imagine that there are only 168 deaths if this was the matter of policy.
 
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I would very much like to see this statement by the drone operators regarding targeting males over 15. I can't imagine that there are only 168 deaths if this was the matter of policy.

The documentry link posted above.
 
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Kids were doing PT and the drone operators thought that they were doing military training. The whole seminary was blown to pieces then our genius govt claimed responsibility instead of blaming the Americans. Molvi Faqir started his insurgency after that which lead to thousands more Pakistanis getting killed in revenge for something Pakistan never did. This is why i say that Pakistani govt is a criminal institution.
Man you are biased.

  1. They were targeting ayman al zawahri.
  2. mulvi faqir himself was a target and left the madrassah 30 mins prior.
  3. The attack occurred at 5am local time. You remember doing PT at 5AM? Ever? Sounds more like training drills similar to how the military behaves.
And then there's this...

NBC: On-scene at blasted 'terror' school - World news - South and Central Asia | NBC News
 
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I did. Pakistan Army is not a foreign power. Its operating on its own territory and is not a belligerent attacking another soverign state. For every op carried out a resettlement was provided.

I keep getting conflicting report on this. Sometimes you guys claim that both the govts have mutual understanding on drone strikes and sometimes you cry about violation of sovereignty. So what is the truth actually? Do Pakistanis provide ground intel for drone strikes or not?

If certain tribes or affiliates refuse to vacate the area and choose to shelter the militants then its their own fault.

That's a cheap cop-out.
 
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I keep getting conflicting report on this. Sometimes you guys claim that both the govts have mutual understanding on drone strikes and sometimes you cry about violation of sovereignty. So what is the truth actually? Do Pakistanis provide ground intel for drone strikes or not?

We have 'partial control' in IDing targets.

That's a cheap cop-out.

Thats one way of looking at it.
 
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We have 'partial control' in IDing targets.

So that means there is tacit approval from the Pakistani side to these drone attacks and the public condemnation is a hogwash for the domestic populace. In that case I don't see any reason to blame the Americans.
 
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Army does what govt tells it to do. Army is not govt nor its the one making such decisions.

Then you are not up for a serious and rationale discussion.

Do you mean that pak army is holding itself back on drone strikes because civilian government wants US to continue?

It defies the logic how come a political party choosing the anti-popular agenda.
 
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Drone is method of warfare.
Beheading is method of execution.

Stupid to compare these two.
 
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First, I would ask which incident that was, just out of curiosity. However, my position wouldn't change. If the U.S. had attacked the seminary with the intent of killing these boys, then there is no defense. However, with a beheading there is no question of who the target is and what the Intent behind it is.
If you bomb a seminary (where students reside :) ), of course you are intending to kill the students.

This is like asking someone who sets fire a library, whether he intended to burn the books or not.....
 
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