Why Arabs Need Their Foreign Mercenaries

[tanlixiang28776]

Numbers I provided include both combat and non combat deathes in Korea.

And we did as well with the PRC KIA numbers

Just mistake, they included 17,730 deathes outside of Korea.

17,730 deaths in a non war zone over 3 years. Is that something to be bragging about?

This is far more humiliating then saying the soldiers died in battle.

 

[notorious_eagle]

No, I criticize the arabs because their military is trash. China went to war with the US directly once and indirectly twice. When you look at Arab tactics and Soviet or US tactics, you can see the Arabs are just cheaply copying the ”dominant" strategies without putting thought into it, and losing. They're even worse than the South Koreans we stomped to boost our kill ratios.

I know Israel needs to boost its image but stomping arabs isn't the way to do it. It's like saying you're a great fighter by beating 6 year old schoolboys.

I agree with you that the Arabs lack the basic military tactics that are needed to fight a well oiled military machine like Israel. But i urge you, dont under estimate the Israelis because they have one of the world's most mobile battle hardened military machine. The conditions they have to defend their territory, they have mastered that art and time after time they have prevailed over their enemies whom fielded more numbers. The Israelis are professional and they take their job very seriously. They know their military equipment inside out unlike the Arabs whom have to hire foreign contractors to maintain their over priced military hardware.

Now coming back to China's military involvement in the Korean war, although the Chinese took much higher number of casualties keep in mind they were fighting a more modern enemy whom had technology and experience on their side. China was a poor nation and could only afford to equip its soldiers with the basic military equipment while NATO had experience and the money to provide their soldiers with the best training and equipment. I think the Korean war is not a good example of China's military prowess, if you ask me of whatever i read about China's history, China was never serious about its defence unless the 1990's when they actually embarked on a massive modernization plan. The results are right infront of us because not only are the Chinese building modern technology and equipping their Armed Forces with modern weapons, they are also changing their doctrine and building a modern officer core which is absolutely essential to become a potent military force. Look at the Arabs, they possess some of the best equipment in the world but lack the officers that are needed to use that equipment effectively.

The Chinese have now moved away from the doctrine of fortification to conducting manoeuvres, thus its quite obvious that the Chinese dont intend to fight a defensive war which they envisioned against the Soviet Union and intend to conduct offensive manoeuvres in the enemy's territory. I am glad that the Chinese are actually getting serious about their military, because unfortunately the military never received enough attention considering the rough neighbourhood China lives in. I have no doubt in my mind, in the next 2 decades China will be a military super power as it is building the officer core and the weapons that are required to become one. It will take time, Rome was not built in one day, but we all should be glad that China is on the correct path.

 

[below_freezing]

I agree with you that the Arabs lack the basic military tactics that are needed to fight a well oiled military machine like Israel. But i urge you, dont under estimate the Israelis because they have one of the world's most mobile battle hardened military machine. The conditions they have to defend their territory, they have mastered that art and time after time they have prevailed over their enemies whom fielded more numbers. The Israelis are professional and they take their job very seriously. They know their military equipment inside out unlike the Arabs whom have to hire foreign contractors to maintain their over priced military hardware.

Now coming back to China's military involvement in the Korean war, although the Chinese took much higher number of casualties keep in mind they were fighting a more modern enemy whom had technology and experience on their side. China was a poor nation and could only afford to equip its soldiers with the basic military equipment while NATO had experience and the money to provide their soldiers with the best training and equipment. I think the Korean war is not a good example of China's military prowess, if you ask me of whatever i read about China's history, China was never serious about its defence unless the 1990's when they actually embarked on a massive modernization plan. The results are right infront of us because not only are the Chinese building modern technology and equipping their Armed Forces with modern weapons, they are also changing their doctrine and building a modern officer core which is absolutely essential to become a potent military force. Look at the Arabs, they possess some of the best equipment in the world but lack the officers that are needed to use that equipment effectively.

The Chinese have now moved away from the doctrine of fortification to conducting manoeuvres, thus its quite obvious that the Chinese dont intend to fight a defensive war which they envisioned against the Soviet Union and intend to conduct offensive manoeuvres in the enemy's territory. I am glad that the Chinese are actually getting serious about their military, because unfortunately the military never received enough attention considering the rough neighbourhood China lives in. I have no doubt in my mind, in the next 2 decades China will be a military super power as it is building the officer core and the weapons that are required to become one. It will take time, Rome was not built in one day, but we all should be glad that China is on the correct path.

We were very serious about our defense since 1949. What gave you the impression otherwise? The Nationalists outnumbered the communists 3:1 and had pure US weapons and were Soviet/US trained, Communists had captured Japanese weapons from WW2, who won? Can you win like that by joking and not being serious?

During the Korean War, you can't just look at the US forces. It wasn't China vs. US. It was China vs. US+South Korea + 14 other countries. South Korean+US casualties exceeded Chinese ones, especially since China considers missing = dead while US doesn't dare say missing = dead otherwise UN forces have over 1 million deaths. Check the Korean War statistics, UN forces = Communist forces, but North Korea was defeated in days and never contributed soldiers after the initial push so the US/South Korea actually outnumbered us.

Korean War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The end result despite being outnumbered, outgunned and the enemy being in a better position? We pushed 400 km forward and never looked back. The war started for China at the Yalu River, after all of North Korea had been occupied. It ended at the 38th parallel 400 km to the south. Going by (highly inaccurate due to records being destroyed in a fire) US estimates, we lost twice that of SK + US. That's not bad, for being outnumbered, outgunned and in an inferior position. Russians were in the same position in WW2 and lost twice that. But going by official statistics, the SK and US lost more.

During the Vietnam War, Chinese AAs and SAMs took down 3000 US fixed wing aircraft and 5000 US helicopters, all piloted by US pilots. In 1962, 3 Mig-21s took down 75 US F-4s. At the same time, Israel using a few hundred of the same aircraft, destroyed all the arab nations put together. This is the difference.

It's not about doctrine. The doctrine was there because of the reality. What, you wanted the government to lie and say "even though our military is weaker, we are going to take an offensive, attack USSR/USA doctrine"? No that'd make them a laughing stock not tough.

 

[below_freezing]

Going to sleep, this project is driving me crazy, sigh...

 

[Desert Fox]

Arabs are good fighters, dont know why so many underestimate them.

i think you meant Arabs "were" good fighters, in the 2oth and 21'st century they have lost every war, they never gained a stalemate in any war, they lost all wars with their adversaries. Besides Egypts strategy in the Sinai when they used their SAM's very effectively against the IAF and gained a foothold on the israeli held side, i have yet to see arabs come up with another good strategy in war.

 

[500]

And we did as well with the PRC KIA numbers

That's 4.5 times more than all non Korean coalition deathes. But real number is surelly much larger.

17,730 deaths in a non war zone over 3 years. Is that something to be bragging about?

No one is bragging.

i think you meant Arabs "were" good fighters, in the 2oth and 21'st century they have lost every war, they never gained a stalemate in any war, they lost all wars with their adversaries.

Iran-Iraq war was statemate, despite Iran has 3 times superriority in number of personel.

 

[CardSharp]

Who's bragging?

You are of course, by propping the Arabs up like some sort of formidable opponents when history doesn't bear this out.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

That's 4.5 times more than all non Korean coalition deathes. But real number is surelly much larger.

You're getting this from Korean sources I presume. Not very reliable pal. US sources are not very accurate but I can at least quote them without laughing my A** off.

And seriously your opinion of surelly its much higher doesn't hold water. Find a source first. Otherwise its just your own wishes.

China doesn't need to hide casualties to shield sensitive citizens.

No one is bragging.

You seem to be proud that those people did not die in combat but just had accidents.

 

[500]

You are of course, by propping the Arabs up like some sort of formidable opponents when history doesn't bear this out.

Arabs built one of the largest empires in human history. That could never happen if they were bad fighters.

 

[500]

You're getting this from Korean sources I presume. Not very reliable pal. US sources are not very accurate but I can at least quote them without laughing my A** off.

I was talking about non Korean deaths.

You seem to be proud that those people did not die in combat but just had accidents.

U assumption is wrong.

 

[CardSharp]

Here's your bucket of cold water.

excerpt from THE EXILE - A Hezbollah Upon All of Thee! - By Gary Brecher - The War Nerd

the most overrated military force on earth, the IDF. The Israelis have been coasting on their reputation for a long time, but way back in Gulf War I it was clear they made their record like a Don King fighter, padding their Win column against a bunch of bums. When I saw those pitiful Arab "soldiers" crawling toward US camera crews on their hands and knees to surrender, the first thing that went through my head was, "Whoa, so that's the kind of opponent the Israelis have been showboating against? Well Hell, my high school marching band could've beaten those Arab chicken****s!"

I'm not alone in that conclusion either. One of the top US commanders in GW I called the IDF "a bunch of arrogant pricks who wouldn't last ten minutes on a European battlefield." [**] Well, that bit about a "European battlefield" is another sad case of our NATO obsession, but the point is, the IDF doesn't deserve its rep. It did once, back in 1948 and during Suez, when it was manned by double-tough survivors of the European Jews who were determined to show up the book-nerd stereotype by kicking a55 from Haifa to Damascus. Those dudes were truly tough.


But we're talking demographics again, dude. Passage of time, plus difference in birthrate, means that by now the IDF has a thin, real thin, crust of Ashkenazi brains'n'brawn on top and a bunch of flabby mama's boys under them. See, those whitleather-tough survivors wasted their genes on the whole socialist kibbutz commune experiment, had a kid or two, or none. Their kids are old now. Meanwhile, Israel admitted every loser from Russia or Ukraine or Yemen who could claim a grandpa who liked carp or a grandma who carried the overprotective gene or whatever, anything that could make them look Jewish. Half of them were just lying to get out of their native Hellholes, and none of them were willing to die for Israel the way that kick- first generation was. Look at the news pictures up close, or just look at the pictures of that schmuck who got kidnapped in Gaza, Shalit, and you'll see what I mean: the weak and the freeloaders outbred the strong. Hell, that loser's name says it plain enough. What kind of soldier would anybody with the same name as that loudmouth ugly prick Gene Shalit be?

** the general referred to here was Lt. Gen. Thomas W. Kelly and his exact words were the IDF were "arrogant little bastards who wouldn't last ten minutes on a European battlefield

Crusade: The Untold Story of the ... - Google Books
Page 143

 

[tanlixiang28776]

I was talking about non Korean deaths.

This is engraved in stone in the US. I'm not trusting any SK source. US or China only because they kept the most extensive data of the war.

Dead — United States: 54,246,[5] United Nations: 628,833
Wounded — United States: 103,284, United Nations: 1,064,453.
Captured — United States: 7,140, United Nations: 92,970.
Missing — United States: 8,177,[6] United Nations: 470,267.


628,833 UN Dead+470,267 UN Missing= 1,099,100 UN Dead - 130,000 SK Dead ( your source) =969,000 non-SK UN dead / 400,000 PRC Dead( highest US estimate)= 2.42275

2.42275 is the Kill ratio of PRC troops to non SK UN troops.

I don't know where you learned math pal.

 

[CardSharp]

Dead — United States: 54,246,[5] United Nations: 628,833
Wounded — United States: 103,284, United Nations: 1,064,453.
Captured — United States: 7,140, United Nations: 92,970.
Missing — United States: 8,177,[6] United Nations: 470,267.


628,833 UN Dead+470,267 UN Missing= 1,099,100 UN Dead - 130,000 SK Dead ( your source) =969,000 non-SK UN dead / 400,000 PRC Dead( highest US estimate)= 2.42275

2.42275 is the Kill ratio of PRC troops to non SK UN troops.

I don't know where you learned math pal.

War isn't Counter-strike, they're not won on kill to death ratios, they are won by achieving political and battlefield objectives. There is no point to pissing around with how died on each side.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

War isn't Counter-strike, they're not won on kill to death ratios, they are won by achieving political and battlefield objectives. There is no point to pissing around with how died on each side.

I know but whenever I try to argue that they pull out the casualties list from wikipedia. I just felt like beating them with their own stick.

See how they like it.

 

[500]

This is engraved in stone in the US. I'm not trusting any SK source. US or China only because they kept the most extensive data of the war.

Dead — United States: 54,246,[5] United Nations: 628,833
Wounded — United States: 103,284, United Nations: 1,064,453.
Captured — United States: 7,140, United Nations: 92,970.
Missing — United States: 8,177,[6] United Nations: 470,267.


628,833 UN Dead+470,267 UN Missing= 1,099,100 UN Dead - 130,000 SK Dead ( your source) =969,000 non-SK UN dead / 400,000 PRC Dead( highest US estimate)= 2.42275

2.42275 is the Kill ratio of PRC troops to non SK UN troops.

I don't know where you learned math pal.

SK - 138 K
US - 36.5K
rest - 5 k
---------------
NK - 215 K
China - 183 K official, 400 K western estimates
USSR - 0.3 K

I know but whenever I try to argue that they pull out the casualties list from wikipedia. I just felt like beating them with their own stick.

See how they like it.

I provided links to official MOD sites, you have nothing but some memorial.