Why America will not leave Afghanistan for many decades or ever!

[Indika]

You don't get it do you. Taliban is the main reason why US is going to stay in Afghanistan.

Nope, Taliban is just an excuse. US will stay in afghanistan irrespective of what pakistan or afghans themselves think about it. They need a foot hold in the region from where they can change the dynamics or control the region.

 

[fitpOsitive]

You have assumed certain things while writing these points. I find this post as the perfect opportunity to wake you and fellow Americans up. Here is my answers and your assumptions.

1. We can keep security relatively acceptable in Afganistan and yet benefit from the intelligence we gather to keep the homeland secure. Afterall there is a treasure trove of who's who in the terror world residing in the Afghan-Pak region

Your assumption: The security was not stable before you came and bombed every inch of Afghanistan. At the back of your mind, I guess you also believe that AlQaida did 9/11 and Taliban's were some how involved.
My take: Before you, Afghanistan was far more safer and far more peaceful. If you dont believe me ask some of your journalists who traveled in those times to Afghanistan. Even if Taliban were involved in the murder of 5000 people in WTC, there would have been fair evidence to it. But guess what, Talibans were demanding proofs and you guys provided them with 9/11 plane attack footage with a note: This is done by AlQaida, hand over Osama.
Real killers of millions of Iraqis sitting in London just said a sorry in Parliament. Nice.
Evidences against Taliban were never presented.

2. We are in China's backyard and surrounding them. China is the sole long-term threat we have identified, and their hegemony in S China sea is an economic and military concern for us. Keeping tabs, especially having close access to the restive parts of China, I'd say is of military value. We have drone bases in Afghanistan- imagine how deep we see and listen into China from deep within the Afghan airspace.

Your assumption: You assume that all things China is manufacturing is a result of her own R&D. No American is there in China. You need a strong presence here in the region around China.
My take: China can't make most of the things she is making now if USA and others stop providing her with the necessary technology and even shifting their own manufacturing facility to China. At every corner of Chinese industry USA has very strong presence, be it a supply of materials, technology or anything. So why this drama of presence in Chinas backyard? Sometimes I strongly feel that USA is deliberately making China more powerful just to keep things rolling.

3. Afghans saw what happened when Iraq insisted we move out and they will never in the foreseeable future ask us to leave entirely.

Your assumption: You think Afghan govt is a legal "govt".
My take: They are bunch of agents installed through "voting". The reality of Afghanistan is: Democratic system is not for Afghanistan. So, these agents will always be needing you.

4. We get access to central Asia in ways we have not previously. Frankly, we've not cultivated good links to them in the past. This a great opportunity.

Your assumption: You think that these link are useful.
My take: But you have to come through either Pakistan or Iran. Are they still useful now? If yes then at what cost.

5. We are also in Russia's backyard- it has its own set of strategic value to it.

Your assumption: ?
My take: You know, you can be in Russia's backyard, even sitting in USA(Russia and USA are neighbors). Why travel that much to go to another backyard.

 

[takeitwithyou]

You have assumed certain things while writing these points. I find this post as the perfect opportunity to wake you and fellow Americans up. Here is my answers and your assumptions.

Your assumption: The security was not stable before you came and bombed every inch of Afghanistan. At the back of your mind, I guess you also believe that AlQaida did 9/11 and Taliban's were some how involved.
My take: Before you, Afghanistan was far more safer and far more peaceful. If you dont believe me ask some of your journalists who traveled in those times to Afghanistan. Even if Taliban were involved in the murder of 5000 people in WTC, there would have been fair evidence to it. But guess what, Talibans were demanding proofs and you guys provided them with 9/11 plane attack footage with a note: This is done by AlQaida, hand over Osama.
Real killers of millions of Iraqis sitting in London just said a sorry in Parliament. Nice.
Evidences against Taliban were never presented.

Your assumption: You assume that all things China is manufacturing is a result of her own R&D. No American is there in China. You need a strong presence here in the region around China.
My take: China can't make most of the things she is making now if USA and others stop providing her with the necessary technology and even shifting their own manufacturing facility to China. At every corner of Chinese industry USA has very strong presence, be it a supply of materials, technology or anything. So why this drama of presence in Chinas backyard? Sometimes I strongly feel that USA is deliberately making China more powerful just to keep things rolling.

Your assumption: You think Afghan govt is a legal "govt".
My take: They are bunch of agents installed through "voting". The reality of Afghanistan is: Democratic system is not for Afghanistan. So, these agents will always be needing you.

Your assumption: You think that these link are useful.
My take: But you have to come through either Pakistan or Iran. Are they still useful now? If yes then at what cost.

Your assumption: ?
My take: You know, you can be in Russia's backyard, even sitting in USA(Russia and USA are neighbors). Why travel that much to go to another backyard.

1. 911 AQ, Taliban none of that past makes a difference now. We are talking about current who's who of terrorist org's sitting in Afghan-Pak region and the vaule of having us close by and on top of it. Our problem in this part of the world is sigint intelligence is not as good as human intelligence on the ground. The proximity to the troublemakers gives us that advantage.

2. Not sure you read my comment. It has zero to do with manufacturing, not even close.

3. Agent or no agent_ does not matter. The point was they would not ask us to leave because they saw what happened when we left Iraq.

4. Does not matter how we get there, we are there and we get the advantage.

 

[AZ1]

The thing about the Chinese is, they will never get involved in others conflicts. That ended with Vietnam and Korean wars.

Now they are just mute spectator with good appetite for $$....


Probably will leave. Only when Taliban become extinct and there is a legitimate government over Afghanistan. Until then, there will always be US soldiers and their bases.

thiis is coming straight from media right? You dont even know abt afghani they fought generation to generation and they cant even hold meeting US meeting in kabul after sending troops and 15 years of figting.

 

[idune]

US will not leave on its own will but will be forced, just like other powers in past faced the same fate.

 

[takeitwithyou]

US will not leave on its own will but will be forced, just like other powers in past faced the same fate.

Argh, one-line. How exactly are we going to be forced after 17 years? Nvm, I don't expect you to follow up with any serious thought.

 

[livingdead]

Argh, one-line. How exactly are we going to be forced after 17 years? Nvm, I don't expect you to follow up with any serious thought.

I tend to agree with you.. US casualty level is pretty low compared to other wars they faught... and with current troops in supporting role, the main brunt of attack is faced by ANA...
the only issues if, if ANA crumbles, then US will have to either commit more troops for frontline duty or withdraw. That might not happen as there seem to be some sort of equilibrium between taliban and ANA...

 

[Eagle_storm]

clue of the last times........
the war of jewish with the hand of christians....

and that is the reason they wont leave...

arabs have badly affected...

the last qilla of Islam Pakistan remains....

But jeet islam ki hogi inshallah.........

signals coming for gazwa hind........

 

[El Sidd]

Why leave?

Glory awaits in Afghanistan.

 

[takeitwithyou]

clue of the last times........
the war of jewish with the hand of christians....

and that is the reason they wont leave...

arabs have badly affected...

the last qilla of Islam Pakistan remains....

But jeet islam ki hogi inshallah.........

signals coming for gazwa hind........

don't forget to add:
911 was an inside job
The US never landed on the moon
Amerikan white house will hoist ISIS flag
Muslim NATO will finish off Isreal and Europe using U.S. Christian weapons
Ameriki is controlling your brain through a flux capacitor installed through laser beams!

 

[Eagle_storm]

don't forget to add:
911 was an inside job
The US never landed on the moon
Amerikan white house will hoist ISIS flag
Muslim NATO will finish off Isreal and Europe using U.S. Christian weapons
Ameriki is controlling your brain through a flux capacitor installed through laser beams!

other confession though you bust out in vomiting or in other form...

but seriously america ex president clinton words is a memorial :

"sooner our generation will be composed of born out of wedlock"...





More than half of births to American women younger than 30 are outside marriage, research has found.

And across all ages, a staggering four in ten women are not married when they have children.

The data shows the fastest growth in the past 20 years is among white women in their 20s with some college education but no four-year degree.

Shifting priorities: More than half of births to American women under the age of 30 occur outside marriage, research has found

And with two-thirds of children in the U.S. born to mothers under the age of 30, it appears the majority of births across the country are out of wedlock.

The data was compiled by Child Trends, a Washington research group that analysed government data, and reported by the New York Times.

 

[ito]

I have a feeling that Americans will be there is Afghanistan until Taliban is there as a militant force. So that could take a decade or even more.

 

[takeitwithyou]

other confession though you bust out in vomiting or in other form...

but seriously america ex president clinton words is a memorial :

"sooner our generation will be composed of born out of wedlock"...





More than half of births to American women younger than 30 are outside marriage, research has found.

And across all ages, a staggering four in ten women are not married when they have children.

The data shows the fastest growth in the past 20 years is among white women in their 20s with some college education but no four-year degree.

Shifting priorities: More than half of births to American women under the age of 30 occur outside marriage, research has found

And with two-thirds of children in the U.S. born to mothers under the age of 30, it appears the majority of births across the country are out of wedlock.

The data was compiled by Child Trends, a Washington research group that analysed government data, and reported by the New York Times.

I get that you are perturbed by American mothers and think they are sluts, but what does that have to do with my topic?

 

[prashantazazel]

Any theocratic country/regime needs to be controlled by a responsible world power. Otherwise they gain in strength and become a nuisance for everyone.
The world needs to move forward, and groups like the Taliban are dragging it back.
I doubt the US will leave, unless something like a secular/military government takes hold in Afghanistan.

 

[PeaceGen]

{UPDATED} 1 more point.
I wanted to start a topic based on a post I made in another thread that may help to understand America's goal in Afghanistan and the long game there. I'd imagine many here have wondered what was America's long game in Afghanistan. I have tried to keep my thoughts limited to an earnest strategic view of what I imagine the motivations to be.

I believe the game is to keep ourselves there in some form for decades. Any Superpower or Hyperpower as in our case would do the same. Follow me on this for a moment.

1. We can keep security relatively acceptable in Afganistan and yet benefit from the intelligence we gather to keep the homeland secure. Afterall there is a treasure trove of who's who in the terror world residing in the Afghan-Pak region

2. We are in China's backyard and surrounding them. China is the sole long-term threat we have identified, and their hegemony in S China sea is an economic and military concern for us. Keeping tabs, especially having close access to the restive parts of China, I'd say is of military value. We have drone bases in Afghanistan- imagine how deep we see and listen into China from deep within the Afghan airspace.

3. Afghans saw what happened when Iraq insisted we move out and they will never in the foreseeable future ask us to leave entirely.

4. We get access to central Asia in ways we have not previously. Frankly, we've not cultivated good links to them in the past. This a great opportunity.

5. We are also in Russia's backyard- it has its own set of strategic value to it.

6. Iran- This is an important one too, proximity allows us to peer into Iran and gather intelligence

Now I understand this reasoning may get the some of the characters here heated up and fully expect abusive comments to fly in, but I hope the rest would give it a serious thought and understand America's motivation. @Jlaw @beijingwalker - Your thoughts? @gambit you concur?

If you don't mind, i'd like to weigh in on this as well.

There is also a balance to be maintained between gathering intel and making one's presence felt, and making governments on the other side of the world too angry or nervous.
So far, i think the US is doing a good job of maintaining a healthy balance.
Ideally though, the US would recognize the superpowers of that region (Russia and China, in my view), and foster healthy info-sharing relations with those superpowers.

Question is, would America survive as a viable power in geopolitics? These Afghan ambitions are all secondary and dependent on its preservation of the status it enjoyed in post soviet era.
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i see nothing that indicates a decline in US influence and power around the world. in fact, i see an increase of it.

Nope, Taliban is just an excuse. US will stay in afghanistan irrespective of what pakistan or afghans themselves think about it. They need a foot hold in the region from where they can change the dynamics or control the region.

Taliban have declared their guilt with their jihadi videos often enough.
And the US are merely there to prevent future attacks by Muslims like the Taliban, in lands far away from the Taliban homeland. It is not a western habit to tell people how to live their private lives or how to pray to our God. The Taliban and ISIS however, kill you for not praying to God the way they do.