Who Won in Afghanistan???

[peagle]

Suppose there was not dictatorship rule in 2001 and had been someone like IK back than, and if pak would have fenced and guarded the afghan border right from start?
If there is a crime in your neighborhood, you first safeguard your own house before doing anything else.
How can you define that pak has won in afghanistan? it supported afghan taliban, ok but if you look at the overall situation and indicators (be it social or economic) of Pakistan, it is comparable to any war ravaged country.

Come on, you cant base your opinions on if's, if we live our lives based on if's, we would be living in a fantasy world.

Your house is already secure, come on please do not throw lazy arguments at me, put some thought into it, the drug dealing and prostitution is happening outside, its not coming into your house, you would take appropriate steps, because each time you walk out, it is in your face, any action you take will have to be external to your property. What those steps are would depend on the situation.

You have based all your arguments on if this and if that, that's silly, please a grown up discussion would be helpful.

There is no need for a definition of who won, its is reality, it is fact who won, it is part of history, dispute my facts, please do not present your fantasies. my statement is very clear cut, provide an alternate answer to each situation, you are not making any sense.

In each of the following situations, the results are a part of history.

America vs. the Soviet Union in the cold war
>> America won, supported by > PAKISTAN

America wanted to have good relations with China
>> America did, supported by > PAKISTAN

America wanted to defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan
>> America did, supported by > PAKISTAN

India, Russia, Iran, CAR’s, all Afghan groups against the Taliban
>> Taliban won, supported by > PAKISTAN

American Invasion of Afghanistan vs. Taliban
>> Taliban won, supported by > PAKISTAN

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

As far the as the Turkish leaders are concerned Afganistan isn't the name of just another country. Jelaleddin Rumi was the pioneer in forming the Muslim Civilization in Anatolia, Jamaluddin Afgani was instrumental in forming Sultan Abdul Hamid's pan-Islamic ideas, Gulbuddin Hikmatyar is addressed as "Ustad" by Reis Erdo'an etc....

Afganistan will be won by the ones with the highest Iman and Ihlas amongst the cotemporary Muslims....

 

[Mujahid911]

Taliban won!? Lmao. How come? US isn't going anywhere they came here to kill OBL and to diminish Al-Qaeda they successfully did. Now they have finally made Afghanistan a base to counter Chinese and Iran threat. C'mon US has spent trillions why on earth would they leave now? US thinks beyond they have long term strategic goals and isn't going anywhere.

I have been thinking a little about the Cold War and the Afghan wars, which were instrumental in bringing about the downfall of the Soviet Union, and influential in modern world history.

One thing struck me; it’s an inescapable fact of history and perhaps a little foretelling of the future.

America vs. the Soviet Union in the cold war
>> America won, supported by > PAKISTAN

America wanted to have good relations with China
>> America did, supported by > PAKISTAN

America wanted to defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan
>> America did, supported by > PAKISTAN

India, Russia, Iran, CAR’s, all Afghan groups against the Taliban
>> Taliban won, supported by > PAKISTAN

American Invasion of Afghanistan vs. Taliban
>> Taliban won, supported by > PAKISTAN

America vs. China
>> To be decided, who will be supported by > PAKISTAN

It seems the only side that keeps winning is the side that is supported by PAKISTAN.

 

[Dalit]

Pakistan also won the battle of waterloo.

Stupid Indian trying to be funny. The joke is crap.

 

[Gangetic]

Nobody won in Afghanistan. Afghanistan is becoming more unstable, more food insecure, increasing water insecurity, etc.

Taliban won!? Lmao. How come? US isn't going anywhere they came here to kill OBL and to diminish Al-Qaeda they successfully did. Now they have finally made Afghanistan a base to counter Chinese and Iran threat. C'mon US has spent trillions why on earth would they leave now? US thinks beyond they have long term strategic goals and isn't going anywhere.

The US only has a few bases in Bagram and some other places. Chinese Xinjiang province is just too far and blocked by the Badakhshan mountains.

 

[GumNaam]

Pakistan has most certainly regained the upper hand in Afghanistan by far but it is now over yet. the usa is very hesitant about leaving and will try every dirty little trick in the book to keep its troops and its nato troops in Afghanistan while maintaining cia umbrella for mi6, mosad and raw to continue promoting terrorism in Pakistan, China & Russia. Therefore Pakistan, China & Russia must be militarily ready to send their air and land forces to Afghanistan on the taliban side to encourage the american & europeans to leave on time as promised. no more making silly little excuses.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

America vs. the Soviet Union in the cold war
>> America won, supported by > PAKISTAN

America wanted to have good relations with China
>> America did, supported by > PAKISTAN

America wanted to defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan
>> America did, supported by > PAKISTAN

India, Russia, Iran, CAR’s, all Afghan groups against the Taliban
>> Taliban won, supported by > PAKISTAN

American Invasion of Afghanistan vs. Taliban
>> Taliban won, supported by > PAKISTAN

Sorry, but in every one of these Pakistan lost and the "other won". Not only did Pakistan lose but was left carrying the bill. All these events have had disaterous consequences on Pakistan with the latest event earning Pakistan the moniker "terroristan". Pull your passport out in any country of the world and watch the reaction. Even allies like China find India more inviting for their tourists with Pakistan being avoded as best as you can. This has had devastating effect on the image, economy and standing of Pakistan.

Just one example. What did Pakistan get out of 1980s jihad? On the other hand all of Eastern Europe gained freedom from the Soviets and most today are dens of Islamaphobic hate and revulsion for Pakistani's. All Pakistan did was help America consolidate the west while screwing Islamabad with sanctions post Soviet defeat in Afghanistan.

 

[KurtisBrian]

Those who make and sell weapons or provide services to the US military, won.

 

[peagle]

Taliban won!? Lmao. How come? US isn't going anywhere they came here to kill OBL and to diminish Al-Qaeda they successfully did. Now they have finally made Afghanistan a base to counter Chinese and Iran threat. C'mon US has spent trillions why on earth would they leave now? US thinks beyond they have long term strategic goals and isn't going anywhere.

America kicked out the Taliban,
America installed a new government, lets say its democratic,
America declared Taliban a terrorist organisation,
America developed a sore throat shouting "Do more" at Pakistan for 20 years,
America started peace negotiations with Taliban (terrorist group according to them)
America transformed the peace negotiations into a withdrawal agreement,
America changed its stance with Pakistan from "Do more" to please help
America spent trillions, yet negotiated with the Taliban and recognised Pakistan's importance for peace.
So, America lost.

Let's not play with words and pick and choose your own events, if you invade a country and declare the party that was in charge a terrorist organisation, and 20 years later, you sit with them to negotiate peace, and in the process bring down your forces from well over 100,000 to just a few thousands, that's called losing.

 

[peagle]

Sorry, but in every one of these Pakistan lost and the "other won". Not only did Pakistan lose but was left carrying the bill. All these events have had disaterous consequences on Pakistan with the latest event earning Pakistan the moniker "terroristan". Pull your passport out in any country of the world and watch the reaction. Even allies like China find India more inviting for their tourists with Pakistan being avoded as best as you can. This has had devastating effect on the image, economy and standing of Pakistan.

Just one example. What did Pakistan get out of 1980s jihad? On the other hand all of Eastern Europe gained freedom from the Soviets and most today are dens of Islamaphobic hate and revulsion for Pakistani's. All Pakistan did was help America consolidate the west while screwing Islamabad with sanctions post Soviet defeat in Afghanistan.

Sorry to say, but what you said made no sense at all.
You are having a different discussion from the one I raised, let me explain why.

If you gain a degree in making paper aeroplanes after 3 years of study, then cannot get a job because the degree was useless, it does not mean you did not gain a degree. You did, what you described above are the costs and the consequence's, not the results of the events.

The sides supported by Pakistan won in each of those scenarios I described, but in some of them Pakistan paid a heavy price, it can be argued if it was worthwhile or not, but that is a different argument.

On the points above, the side supported by Pakistan won.
That is historical fact.

 

[FuturePAF]

No one won. In the status quo everyone is losing and keeps on losing. The only one’s winning are those not participating. China for one got a 20 year (40 years if you count the US opening up to them to counter the Soviets) pass to build itself up the most. If you want to name a winner, China won the war.

Here’s one clear metric to show the war is a failure.

Are the conditions such that Afghan Refugees would rather go back or stay in Pakistan and Iran?

There are still, officially, 1.4 million registered refugees still in Pakistan as of the end of last year. Probably a lot more unreported. Same goes for Iran.

 

[khansaheeb]

Pakistanis who are loyal Pakistanis will immediately support PRC. There is no question that America may somehow take precedence in the minds of ordinary Pakistanis.

There is a substantial risk however that malevolent forces will try to overturn popular opinion and realign vital institutions in America's favour - this risk has existed for decades and manifests in the time-honoured guise of the "innocent NGO". Pakistanis should remain vigilant, so as to thwart such efforts. Every single opposition party in Pakistan presently has at least one hand in the back pocket of some American/western NGO...and these innocent NGOs have very deep pockets.

If we're being honest, you're right on this. Some of us are old enough to remember how well Pakistan was progressing up until the late 90's.

I can smell regime change in the air, CIA style.

Pakistan also won the battle of waterloo.

India never gained in the battle for loos.

 

[dbc]

America kicked out the Taliban,
America installed a new government, lets say its democratic,
America declared Taliban a terrorist organisation,
America developed a sore throat shouting "Do more" at Pakistan for 20 years,
America spent billions on nation building
America realized the Afghans had no interest in self governance
America concluded Afghanistan deserves the Taliban.
America started peace negotiations with Taliban (terrorist group according to them)
America transformed the peace negotiations into a withdrawal agreement,
America changed its stance with Pakistan from "Do more" to please help
America spent trillions, yet negotiated with the Taliban and recognised Pakistan's importance for peace.
So, America lost.

.

fixed it for you...now it's perfect.

 

[Yankee-stani]

Sorry, but in every one of these Pakistan lost and the "other won". Not only did Pakistan lose but was left carrying the bill. All these events have had disaterous consequences on Pakistan with the latest event earning Pakistan the moniker "terroristan". Pull your passport out in any country of the world and watch the reaction. Even allies like China find India more inviting for their tourists with Pakistan being avoded as best as you can. This has had devastating effect on the image, economy and standing of Pakistan.

Just one example. What did Pakistan get out of 1980s jihad? On the other hand all of Eastern Europe gained freedom from the Soviets and most today are dens of Islamaphobic hate and revulsion for Pakistani's. All Pakistan did was help America consolidate the west while screwing Islamabad with sanctions post Soviet defeat in Afghanistan.

History will not be kind to us and we deserved it we backed the most reactionary scums and were America's bitch until they ditched us yet our people still 30 years later harp on this while we remain poor lets hope this time around its different lets make sure Afghanistan next 40 years is not being pain in the butt and haven for retards like OBL

*BTW @Indus Pakistan it wasnt just Eastern Euros but Central Asians and Caucasusians too what they did to us as well when we opened arms for influence we sent them mullahs and they toasted us with Vodka and pity us lol

 

[colonel rajesh]

I have been thinking a little about the Cold War and the Afghan wars, which were instrumental in bringing about the downfall of the Soviet Union, and influential in modern world history.

One thing struck me; it’s an inescapable fact of history and perhaps a little foretelling of the future.

America vs. the Soviet Union in the cold war
>> America won, supported by > PAKISTAN

America wanted to have good relations with China
>> America did, supported by > PAKISTAN

America wanted to defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan
>> America did, supported by > PAKISTAN

India, Russia, Iran, CAR’s, all Afghan groups against the Taliban
>> Taliban won, supported by > PAKISTAN

American Invasion of Afghanistan vs. Taliban
>> Taliban won, supported by > PAKISTAN

America vs. China
>> To be decided, who will be supported by > PAKISTAN

It seems the only side that keeps winning is the side that is supported by PAKISTAN.

current condition of pakistan is to ponder on . what is the benefit of such support ?