Omar1984
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Brother it seems like many people are forgetting the sacrafice the six Pakistani policemen made to protect Sri Lankan friends.
WHO WAS BEHIND LAHORE 3/3 Terror Attacks
- Thread starter Bill Longley
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Brother it seems like many people are forgetting the sacrafice the six Pakistani policemen made to protect Sri Lankan friends.
Halaku Khan
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Yes, the families of any police personnel that may have died have our deepest sympathies.
But that should not stop us from asking who was so familiar with police procedures that he could get the route changed at the last moment. Also, how come there were no reinforcements while these people were coolly wandering around Liberty Circle.
Bane Blade
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We should ask the right questions like why was the top brass of the Police changed days before the start of this event?
Or why their was no Signal free corridor provided to the team?
muse
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Lahore murder mystery
By Ali Sethi
Wednesday, March 4, 2009
LAHORE, Pakistan:
On Tuesday afternoon, Ali Raza went to the hospital. A 25-year-old constable in the Punjab police department, Ali Raza was accompanying an old man who needed an MRI scan. In the reception area, he noticed that the waiting patients had abandoned their chairs and were standing around the television. They had been watching the same images all day: a dozen unidentified gunmen, two wearing backpacks, firing at a van near the Liberty Market roundabout. The intended victims, the TV stations had reported, were members of the Sri Lankan national cricket team, in town here to play Pakistan. The dead: seven Pakistanis, including six of Ali Raza's fellow police officers.
"Everyone at the hospital was saying the same thing," Ali Raza told me later that night, as we stood in line at a brightly lighted stall selling paan - a mild stimulant made with betel nuts - near the Main Market roundabout, just a short walk away from the site of the attack. "They were saying that this was done to show the Indians that we in Pakistan are also the victims of terrorism."
"You think our own government did it?" I asked.
"No one else could get away with this kind of thing," he insisted.
He described the attackers' feat: They appeared out of nowhere at one of the city's busiest intersections and fired for more than 20 minutes at the van carrying the players to Gadhafi Stadium, and then fled in rickshaws.
"I know the kind of precautions we have to take when we are in a VIP motorcade," the young officer told me. "And this was a 'VVIP' motorcade. Every house in that neighborhood was surrounded by the police. My friend was there and he told me the attackers didn't receive a single wound."
A young man in a T-shirt who was standing next to us at the paan stall asked, "Was your friend hurt?"
Ali Raza said, "He is fine, by the grace of God."
This kind of talk was not limited to paan stalls. There had been all sorts of opinions expressed on the privately owned TV channels, which now bring live video and commentary from the sites of terrorist attacks to much of Pakistan's urban population. The governor of Punjab Province, who last week ousted the elected provincial government on the orders of President Asif Ali Zardari, was on camera immediately after the attack, and compared it to the terrorist attacks in Mumbai, India, last November.
Others were more specific: A member of the opposition Pakistan Muslim League said he "had no doubt" that this was the work of the Indian intelligence agencies. A former head of Pakistan's security service, the ISI, agreed with him. An analyst from Islamabad, discussing the attack later in the day on a popular chat show, said that "from every angle" it was evident that India, by attacking a foreign cricket team in Pakistan, had gained. "Who benefits?" she said. "You have to ask who benefits."
Another guest on the show, an elderly sage in a dark blue suit and a bright blue tie, wearing spectacles and speaking with slow, slotting movements of his hand, said that the blaming of one country by another was always counterproductive because, in the end, it took the focus away from domestic troubles.
He gave the example of Benazir Bhutto's assassination, which had immediately led to conspiracy theories but was still awaiting a proper inquiry.
"When there is confusion," he said, "the only people who benefit are the miscreants."
A former intelligence official I know had a different theory. He said he had seen a report some weeks ago warning of exactly this kind of attack in Lahore, possibly against a cricket team. He said it came from the rumor mill that "leads back to Waziristan" in Pakistan's tribal areas. "So this is a security failure," he said. "But it's not an intelligence failure."
Later at night it was reported that the government had found bags that held guns, hand grenades and almonds. This was followed by the televised funeral of one of the slain policemen. His female relatives were sitting around his corpse, wailing and beating their chests. His father, surrounded by cameras, was looking at the floor and saying that he was proud of his son for serving his country.
Again at the paan stall, now surrounded by listeners, I asked Ali Raza if he thought there was a chance that the attack was the work of terrorists or criminals. "There is a chance," he admitted. "But it could be the agencies. It could be the government. It could be India also."
I asked, "What about other people?"
"Which other people?"
I said, "The people who kidnap journalists and bomb the homes of politicians and slit the throats of government spies."
He was thinking about it.
The man operating the paan stall was lining moistened betel leaves with spices and condiments. He had on a tattered apron, which is worn by men like him to keep the notoriously messy paan juice from staining their clothes. He smiled at us and said, "Whoever has done this has a lot of intelligence." He paused. As he did, I looked over the crowd, and thought that for all our various theories, it was a point we could agree on. And then he finished, "For poor people, everything is the same."
Ali Sethi is the author of the forthcoming novel "The Wish Maker."
By Ali Sethi
Wednesday, March 4, 2009
LAHORE, Pakistan:
On Tuesday afternoon, Ali Raza went to the hospital. A 25-year-old constable in the Punjab police department, Ali Raza was accompanying an old man who needed an MRI scan. In the reception area, he noticed that the waiting patients had abandoned their chairs and were standing around the television. They had been watching the same images all day: a dozen unidentified gunmen, two wearing backpacks, firing at a van near the Liberty Market roundabout. The intended victims, the TV stations had reported, were members of the Sri Lankan national cricket team, in town here to play Pakistan. The dead: seven Pakistanis, including six of Ali Raza's fellow police officers.
"Everyone at the hospital was saying the same thing," Ali Raza told me later that night, as we stood in line at a brightly lighted stall selling paan - a mild stimulant made with betel nuts - near the Main Market roundabout, just a short walk away from the site of the attack. "They were saying that this was done to show the Indians that we in Pakistan are also the victims of terrorism."
"You think our own government did it?" I asked.
"No one else could get away with this kind of thing," he insisted.
He described the attackers' feat: They appeared out of nowhere at one of the city's busiest intersections and fired for more than 20 minutes at the van carrying the players to Gadhafi Stadium, and then fled in rickshaws.
"I know the kind of precautions we have to take when we are in a VIP motorcade," the young officer told me. "And this was a 'VVIP' motorcade. Every house in that neighborhood was surrounded by the police. My friend was there and he told me the attackers didn't receive a single wound."
A young man in a T-shirt who was standing next to us at the paan stall asked, "Was your friend hurt?"
Ali Raza said, "He is fine, by the grace of God."
This kind of talk was not limited to paan stalls. There had been all sorts of opinions expressed on the privately owned TV channels, which now bring live video and commentary from the sites of terrorist attacks to much of Pakistan's urban population. The governor of Punjab Province, who last week ousted the elected provincial government on the orders of President Asif Ali Zardari, was on camera immediately after the attack, and compared it to the terrorist attacks in Mumbai, India, last November.
Others were more specific: A member of the opposition Pakistan Muslim League said he "had no doubt" that this was the work of the Indian intelligence agencies. A former head of Pakistan's security service, the ISI, agreed with him. An analyst from Islamabad, discussing the attack later in the day on a popular chat show, said that "from every angle" it was evident that India, by attacking a foreign cricket team in Pakistan, had gained. "Who benefits?" she said. "You have to ask who benefits."
Another guest on the show, an elderly sage in a dark blue suit and a bright blue tie, wearing spectacles and speaking with slow, slotting movements of his hand, said that the blaming of one country by another was always counterproductive because, in the end, it took the focus away from domestic troubles.
He gave the example of Benazir Bhutto's assassination, which had immediately led to conspiracy theories but was still awaiting a proper inquiry.
"When there is confusion," he said, "the only people who benefit are the miscreants."
A former intelligence official I know had a different theory. He said he had seen a report some weeks ago warning of exactly this kind of attack in Lahore, possibly against a cricket team. He said it came from the rumor mill that "leads back to Waziristan" in Pakistan's tribal areas. "So this is a security failure," he said. "But it's not an intelligence failure."
Later at night it was reported that the government had found bags that held guns, hand grenades and almonds. This was followed by the televised funeral of one of the slain policemen. His female relatives were sitting around his corpse, wailing and beating their chests. His father, surrounded by cameras, was looking at the floor and saying that he was proud of his son for serving his country.
Again at the paan stall, now surrounded by listeners, I asked Ali Raza if he thought there was a chance that the attack was the work of terrorists or criminals. "There is a chance," he admitted. "But it could be the agencies. It could be the government. It could be India also."
I asked, "What about other people?"
"Which other people?"
I said, "The people who kidnap journalists and bomb the homes of politicians and slit the throats of government spies."
He was thinking about it.
The man operating the paan stall was lining moistened betel leaves with spices and condiments. He had on a tattered apron, which is worn by men like him to keep the notoriously messy paan juice from staining their clothes. He smiled at us and said, "Whoever has done this has a lot of intelligence." He paused. As he did, I looked over the crowd, and thought that for all our various theories, it was a point we could agree on. And then he finished, "For poor people, everything is the same."
Ali Sethi is the author of the forthcoming novel "The Wish Maker."
muse
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Readers will note from the Ali Sethi piece above the following interaction:
What do you make of that?? Hain ji? Khair, one more piece of the puzzle, lets move on to the PML-N "media" man, readers are encouraged to read CRITICALLY :
Clue to sponsors of attack may be found today
Thursday, March 05, 2009
By Rauf Klasra
ISLAMABAD: An investigating team comprising top officials of the ISI, the MI, the IB and other agencies may be able to resolve by Thursday the multi-million dollar mystery who had sponsored the daring attack on the Sri Lankan cricketers in Lahore.
A top expert, who knows which terrorist outfit uses what sort of weapons in such attacks, is rushing to Lahore from Islamabad to join the investigators, The News learnt late on Wednesday night.
Despite the passage of almost 48 hours, top intelligence agencies surprisingly remain clueless about the identities of the 12 assailants, their sponsors and whereabouts. The ISI, the MI, the IB and police officers have joined hands to resolve the mystery to salvage their lost prestige.
Meanwhile, the ISI, the MI, the IB, the Special Branch, the CID and police officials have compiled a preliminary report, which will be submitted to the government on Friday. But the date of submission could be extended if no clue was found to this daring assault, which has stunned the whole nation.
A senior bomb disposal expert with vast knowledge of different extremist outfits and the kind of arms they use will reach Lahore on Thursday. This expert may help resolve the mystery as to who was behind the daring attack on the Sri Lankans.
Sources in the interior ministry disclosed in a bid to find clues to the attackers, data of mobile phone towers of different companies operating in Gulberg area was being collected on a war footing. The calls made from mobile phones were being screened to find out who had carried out the sophisticated operation.
Listen, the prestige of our intelligence agencies touting their conduct of successful overseas operations, particularly in Afghanistan during the Jihad days is now at stake. The whole world is watching whether we would be able to trace the killers still at large, one interior ministry official said.
He added now it was fast emerging that the terrorists had left not a single meaningful clue on the scene of the crime, which might have helped them identify the assailants. In what could be described as a huge threat to the security of entire Lahore, the official said, the attackers were still at large. Officials of the security agencies, caught off-guard on Tuesday, were said to be trying to recover from the shock.
Sources said the Military Intelligence had sent to the Lahore corps commander on Saturday a report warning of a terror attack in the city in the next 48 hours. But the MI report did not specify the nature of the threat or the potential target because the planners gave the agency no further details.
This report was forwarded later in the day to offices of the Punjab IGP, chief secretary and home secretary, where it remained buried under files. Intelligence agencies, conducting separate investigations into the tragedy, have decided to meet in the evening to share their information with DIG Salahuddin Niazi. Sources said routine arrests of suspects were being made from different areas.
It was learnt that the policemen tasked with protecting the Sri Lankan team had not undergone proper commando training. None of them had received training in shooting at a vehicle-borne target. That was why, the sources added, the policemen killed in the attack could not fire a single shot at the killers who conveniently escaped after completing their operation.
Another difficulty, the investigators were encountering, relates to the collection of forensic evidence from the scene. The untrained police officials started seizing arms and ammunition left behind by the attackers without realising the importance of forensic evidence. But sources pointed out some fingerprints still available on weapons were being examined by experts.
The focus of investigators was on local groups, one official said, adding the perpetrators belonged to Lahore and spoke fluent Punjabi. The investigators, not ready to rush to any conclusion, avoid pointing an accusing finger at any particular outfit.
Asked why the MI did not go after the attackers despite having information about the terrorist activity, the source replied they had to understand the system of collecting such information. He explained informants within certain outfits only dropped hints to avoid being caught in case their operation was foiled.
The informant had just sent a simple message to an MI official, who forwarded it to the Punjab government on Saturday, according to the official, who said the message was perceived as a warning of a possible suicide attack.
What do you make of that?? Hain ji? Khair, one more piece of the puzzle, lets move on to the PML-N "media" man, readers are encouraged to read CRITICALLY :
Clue to sponsors of attack may be found today
Thursday, March 05, 2009
By Rauf Klasra
ISLAMABAD: An investigating team comprising top officials of the ISI, the MI, the IB and other agencies may be able to resolve by Thursday the multi-million dollar mystery who had sponsored the daring attack on the Sri Lankan cricketers in Lahore.
A top expert, who knows which terrorist outfit uses what sort of weapons in such attacks, is rushing to Lahore from Islamabad to join the investigators, The News learnt late on Wednesday night.
Despite the passage of almost 48 hours, top intelligence agencies surprisingly remain clueless about the identities of the 12 assailants, their sponsors and whereabouts. The ISI, the MI, the IB and police officers have joined hands to resolve the mystery to salvage their lost prestige.
Meanwhile, the ISI, the MI, the IB, the Special Branch, the CID and police officials have compiled a preliminary report, which will be submitted to the government on Friday. But the date of submission could be extended if no clue was found to this daring assault, which has stunned the whole nation.
A senior bomb disposal expert with vast knowledge of different extremist outfits and the kind of arms they use will reach Lahore on Thursday. This expert may help resolve the mystery as to who was behind the daring attack on the Sri Lankans.
Sources in the interior ministry disclosed in a bid to find clues to the attackers, data of mobile phone towers of different companies operating in Gulberg area was being collected on a war footing. The calls made from mobile phones were being screened to find out who had carried out the sophisticated operation.
Listen, the prestige of our intelligence agencies touting their conduct of successful overseas operations, particularly in Afghanistan during the Jihad days is now at stake. The whole world is watching whether we would be able to trace the killers still at large, one interior ministry official said.
He added now it was fast emerging that the terrorists had left not a single meaningful clue on the scene of the crime, which might have helped them identify the assailants. In what could be described as a huge threat to the security of entire Lahore, the official said, the attackers were still at large. Officials of the security agencies, caught off-guard on Tuesday, were said to be trying to recover from the shock.
Sources said the Military Intelligence had sent to the Lahore corps commander on Saturday a report warning of a terror attack in the city in the next 48 hours. But the MI report did not specify the nature of the threat or the potential target because the planners gave the agency no further details.
This report was forwarded later in the day to offices of the Punjab IGP, chief secretary and home secretary, where it remained buried under files. Intelligence agencies, conducting separate investigations into the tragedy, have decided to meet in the evening to share their information with DIG Salahuddin Niazi. Sources said routine arrests of suspects were being made from different areas.
It was learnt that the policemen tasked with protecting the Sri Lankan team had not undergone proper commando training. None of them had received training in shooting at a vehicle-borne target. That was why, the sources added, the policemen killed in the attack could not fire a single shot at the killers who conveniently escaped after completing their operation.
Another difficulty, the investigators were encountering, relates to the collection of forensic evidence from the scene. The untrained police officials started seizing arms and ammunition left behind by the attackers without realising the importance of forensic evidence. But sources pointed out some fingerprints still available on weapons were being examined by experts.
The focus of investigators was on local groups, one official said, adding the perpetrators belonged to Lahore and spoke fluent Punjabi. The investigators, not ready to rush to any conclusion, avoid pointing an accusing finger at any particular outfit.
Asked why the MI did not go after the attackers despite having information about the terrorist activity, the source replied they had to understand the system of collecting such information. He explained informants within certain outfits only dropped hints to avoid being caught in case their operation was foiled.
The informant had just sent a simple message to an MI official, who forwarded it to the Punjab government on Saturday, according to the official, who said the message was perceived as a warning of a possible suicide attack.
Omar1984
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There's Punjabis in India also who speak fluent Punjabi. Who can forget the two Indian Punjabi Singhs caught in Pakistan, one of them freed and later confessed he was an Indian spy.
Most people especially the younger generation in Lahore speak Urdu not Punjabi.
muse
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Omar
Why so defensive brother? Why so desperate to suggest that it is Indians??
If the evidence reveals it is Indians to blame, lets tear them a new one, HOWEVER; if it turns out that it's a pakistani outfit in league with Al-Qaida, can we have your agreement that you will not support such groups on this forum??
Why so defensive brother? Why so desperate to suggest that it is Indians??
If the evidence reveals it is Indians to blame, lets tear them a new one, HOWEVER; if it turns out that it's a pakistani outfit in league with Al-Qaida, can we have your agreement that you will not support such groups on this forum??
Omar1984
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I've been to Lahore, I have relatives living in Lahore. Most people especially the younger generation in Lahore ages 5-35 hardly speak Punjabi anymore. They speak Urdu.
muse
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I congratulate you and your relatives and appreciate their facility with Urdu - I also note that you seem to not have agreed to stop supporting groups associated with al-Qaida should the inquiry find them responsible. If that is a correct understanding then -- well, it will regrettable --- won't it?
Cheetah786
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"We also have some important leads that would eventually unearth people responsible for this terrible act," Shah Mehmood Qureshi, Pakistan's foreign minister, said during a news conference with his Sri Lankan counterpart in Islamabad.
No one has claimed responsibility for the attack but speculation has largely focused on homegrown groups such as Lashkar-e-Taiba, which India has blamed for last year's attack on Mumbai, Laskhar-Jhangvi and the so-called Pakistani Taliban.
However, some people in Pakistan have suggested the assailants may have crossed from India or co-operating with Sri Lanka's Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) rebels.
"LTTE definitely, we believe have outside links and international connections to other terrorist organisations but these are matters that we cannot discuss in the open," Rohitha Bogollagama, the Sri Lankan foreign minister, said.
No one has claimed responsibility for the attack but speculation has largely focused on homegrown groups such as Lashkar-e-Taiba, which India has blamed for last year's attack on Mumbai, Laskhar-Jhangvi and the so-called Pakistani Taliban.
However, some people in Pakistan have suggested the assailants may have crossed from India or co-operating with Sri Lanka's Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) rebels.
"LTTE definitely, we believe have outside links and international connections to other terrorist organisations but these are matters that we cannot discuss in the open," Rohitha Bogollagama, the Sri Lankan foreign minister, said.
Halaku Khan
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This is getting even stranger: the place that the SL team was attacked is apparently just 50 metres from the Liberty Circle police station!
So, a VVIP convoy has its route changed at the last moment, and is attacked just 50 metres from a police station. The attackers coolly walked around Liberty Circle for about 20 minutes without being challenged by anyone. All attackers escaped unhurriedly, without injury.
---------------------------------------------------------
Video shows SL players were attacked near police post
Altamash Hashmi
CNN-IBN
HOMAGE: Pakistan's hockey team pay tribute to Pakistani police officers killed in Tuesday's attack in Lahore.
Lahore: CCTV footage available show the terrorists who attacked Sri Lankan players in Lahore on Tuesday walking around freely with heavy automatic weapons in an area which should have been secured as the cricket team was scheduled to pass through the route.
The footage taken from shops in the Liberty market exposes the complete breakdown in Pakistani security during the moments that followed the shocking attack.
After exchanging fire with policemen for more than 20 minutes outside the Gaddafi Stadium, killing six policemen and two others, the terrorists are seen casually slinging rifles over their shoulders, and walking through Liberty market.
While some of them carried bags, others had dropped their grenades, rocket launchers and handguns at the scene of the shootout.
They then broke up into groups of two each, and without exchanging a word get on to motorbikes parked nearby, escaping through the heart of the city.
What makes the video more startling is that it was taken about 50 metres from the Liberty market police station. Yet not one policeman is seen in any frame of the captured footage and the questions from within Pakistan and the international community are getting louder.
Why was no one monitoring the Liberty Chowk area? Why were the attackers allowed to move so freely? Why did no one raise an alarm on seeing armed men on the streets and just how did the men get away so easily?
Just across the road at the scene of the attack, the lack of security outraged International Cricket Council Match Referee Chris Broad. Broad saw his bus driver shot dead and fourth umpire Ahsan Raza lying in a pool of blood.
"They had clearly gone, left the scene and left us to be sitting ducks. So I am extremely angry that we were promised high level security and in our hour of need the security vanished and we were left open to anything and any issues that the terrorists wanted," Broad said in Manchester on Wednesday.
The CCTV footage also shows some more similarities to the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks.
In both the attacks the gunmen are carrying their deadly fire power in rucksacks, shooting randomly, and splitting into groups of two.
But more than ever, the critical evidence has become an obvious cause of shame for the Pakistani government, already under fire for failing to secure the honoured guests they had vowed to protect.
Security Expert B Raman said that the attack is a serious act of negligence as there was no security arranged for the players en route to the stadium.
So, a VVIP convoy has its route changed at the last moment, and is attacked just 50 metres from a police station. The attackers coolly walked around Liberty Circle for about 20 minutes without being challenged by anyone. All attackers escaped unhurriedly, without injury.
---------------------------------------------------------
Video shows SL players were attacked near police post
Altamash Hashmi
CNN-IBN
HOMAGE: Pakistan's hockey team pay tribute to Pakistani police officers killed in Tuesday's attack in Lahore.
Lahore: CCTV footage available show the terrorists who attacked Sri Lankan players in Lahore on Tuesday walking around freely with heavy automatic weapons in an area which should have been secured as the cricket team was scheduled to pass through the route.
The footage taken from shops in the Liberty market exposes the complete breakdown in Pakistani security during the moments that followed the shocking attack.
After exchanging fire with policemen for more than 20 minutes outside the Gaddafi Stadium, killing six policemen and two others, the terrorists are seen casually slinging rifles over their shoulders, and walking through Liberty market.
While some of them carried bags, others had dropped their grenades, rocket launchers and handguns at the scene of the shootout.
They then broke up into groups of two each, and without exchanging a word get on to motorbikes parked nearby, escaping through the heart of the city.
What makes the video more startling is that it was taken about 50 metres from the Liberty market police station. Yet not one policeman is seen in any frame of the captured footage and the questions from within Pakistan and the international community are getting louder.
Why was no one monitoring the Liberty Chowk area? Why were the attackers allowed to move so freely? Why did no one raise an alarm on seeing armed men on the streets and just how did the men get away so easily?
Just across the road at the scene of the attack, the lack of security outraged International Cricket Council Match Referee Chris Broad. Broad saw his bus driver shot dead and fourth umpire Ahsan Raza lying in a pool of blood.
"They had clearly gone, left the scene and left us to be sitting ducks. So I am extremely angry that we were promised high level security and in our hour of need the security vanished and we were left open to anything and any issues that the terrorists wanted," Broad said in Manchester on Wednesday.
The CCTV footage also shows some more similarities to the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks.
In both the attacks the gunmen are carrying their deadly fire power in rucksacks, shooting randomly, and splitting into groups of two.
But more than ever, the critical evidence has become an obvious cause of shame for the Pakistani government, already under fire for failing to secure the honoured guests they had vowed to protect.
Security Expert B Raman said that the attack is a serious act of negligence as there was no security arranged for the players en route to the stadium.
Omar1984
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Lashkar-e-Taiba has no problems with Pakistan, infact they are patriotic Pakistanis. Check this out http://www.defence.pk/forums/war-terror/21846-taliban-threatens-anti-india-groups.html
Omar1984
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I think this Halaku Khan works for RAW. He's flooding this thread with indian articles. Post articles from a Pakistani news website, post articles from a Sri Lankan news website, even post articles from US news website..but dont post articles from 61 year old enemy india's website. Indians are known to make up propaganda against Pakistan.
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salman nedian
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Lets suppose that attackers were local even than they are being supported by someone which is a professional body. Lots of ammunition, money, intelligence support
. Where are they getting from??
This is the question to be answered.
This is the question to be answered.
Halaku Khan
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Man, don't get upset. There are legitimate questions, even in the minds of Pakistanis. Generally, police stations are manned round the clock in shifts, and have phone and wireless communication facilities. If this was just 50 metres from a Police Chowki, it makes the 20 minute unchallenged shooting spree even more puzzling. And this was a VVIP convoy whose route was mysteriously changed at the last minute.
All this does not detract from our sympathies for those who may have died in the line of duty.
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