Who needs to down the FGFA?

[ito]

IAF is better of investing this cash in LCA and AMCA. It'll be rough but you'll make it.

I guess I agree with you for the first time since I joined this forum

 

[Trawllu]

as india develops more and more indegenous weapons platforms systems

more problems are going to crop up with our traditional suppliers of military hardware

like russia & france

till now they knew we were going to buy something or the other but when we start producing our own we will cut down soon on

missiles
a2a - as we develop our own astra - we will reduce the nos of imported missiles (not completely stop but reduce)

tanks - with arjun we may not go for merkava / armata, so market for merkava / armata is restricited - we may go for arjun /fmbt / t90 upgrade combo

SAM - as we developed aakash system - we dropped maitri -

 

[anant_s]

Read all these reports with bagful of salt. In last year or so conflicting views have been coming in public debate, with each commentator claiming it to be reality, about what is going on in minds of planners at IAF.
The truth is IAF is really getting frustrated with delays on MMRCA deal (considering it conducted complex evaluation trials it time bound manner) with issues that stall the deal beyond its purview.
FGFA is still safely a decade away from numbers that will make it anything worthwhile to be taken into a war strategy. Presently it would want to lay its hands on Rafale as early as possible. It will be atleast 2017-18, by the time IAF gets 2-3 squadrons of rafale, setup its maintenance and training facilities and chalk out a proper role for these birds, even if the deal is signed today. So the delay is not just eating away into the inventory of IAF, it is also affecting the future planning of IAF which it might be envisaging. & in this scenario, they'll be hopping the deal gets signed quickly.
On question of FGFA, if someone has really taken into consideration threat from Chinese Gen V planes coming in next decade (i'm sure they have), FGFA program will fructify even if with delays. & that is not surprising (even though frustrating) considering similar treacherous development plan of F 35.
& finally let the decision making voice in IAF be the Final ones. Too many arm chair experts and bureaucrats (whose voice matter or is heard) poke their noses in these matters, making issues even more complex. In IAF's Doctrine Rafale and FGFA will be flying side-by side and none at the expense of other.

 

[Sahasranama]

so? we are the sheriff you do bad you get sanctions. hopefully we are past that with India since they are going to play a very important role in the area.



Russia not caring what others do is a plus but shady work,price gouging, and shitty customer service doesn't make up for that
still I like Russia weapons and systems

So who died and made you Sheriff ? ..... last time I checked "sheriff" was VOTED into position.

Even if u sign MMRCA its not prudent as i hv already stated it ll get inducted at the same time when T Mk2 &Fgfa starts getting inducted.
Tats the 1point
Second point is think about the inefficient HAL.
It is saying it can role out very few Tejas per year.
Now what about Rafale,Tejas,FGFA????
All 3 at once????
I dont think so...

IAF has not invested much in developing the Aerospace industry in India. That is the reality.

With relationship with China heating up we and the IAF being ill prepared as usual, our choices are limited. So as of today, it does look like MMRCA, LCA & FGFA, unless Modi govt. surprises us all and goes completely "Make in India". It will be the happiest day of my life.

 

[Kloitra]

SAM - as we developed aakash system - we dropped maitri -

Maitri is still under development, different range than Aakash.

 

[halupridol]

i have a feeling that this deal will be signed during Mr. Putins visit

 

[Syed Hussain]

Who is talking about a weapons deal? We are just talking about to cut the sheep from it's watch dog....& you know what comes next.

 

[Trawllu]

Maitri is still under development, different range than Aakash.

maitri under development ?

any source ?

 

[ashish1]

maitri under development ?

any source ?

QRSAM is under devlopment.V.K. Saraswat said that it is with the help of some "French partners",however he did not say that the QRSAM's name is Maitri and it is a JV with France.

 

[Kloitra]

maitri under development ?

any source ?

My mistake, what I meant was not yet officially canceled. At least not that I know of.
I am probably mistaken about this too.

 

[sancho]

let's just assume the Pak-FA/FGFA happens and is a great 5th gen plane, but wouldn't you worry about the Russians stiffing you again with high costs for spare parts??

Depends what's better for Indias security, paying more for maintenance or having full operational and upgrade freedom?
The Russians surely will remain with some leverage, since all key techs are developed by them. But they have proven themselfs as a reliable partner for Indian in war times, give us operational and upgrade freedom and with the partnerships now, give us the highest level of indigenous contribution that India ever had and that any country in a similar partnership has (compare the level of contribution and customisation of F35 partners).
Not to mention that the level of leverage of Russia in FGFA is actually lower than in MKI, so is constantly getting lower:

Migs - high dependance for India, no technical contribution and big problems when the Soviet Union fall
MKI - lower dependance for India, thanks to licence production of many parts in India and customisation of the fighter with Indian systems over the years.
FGFA - low dependance, since all the benefits of the MKI deal are further improved, by high level of customisation with Indian materials, avionics, weapons even in techs developed by Russia

The more the relation to Russia improved over the years, the less dependent India got!

what autonomy? HAL was still begging for Russinas to send in their experts to assess / fix blank mfd screens during flight on SU30's.

Because those MFDs were build by Russia in the early fighters, while the HAL produced fighters today have Indian MFDs, which makes us free from Russian experts or spares in this regard. The next upgrades increases the level even further, with more Russian / foreign parts being replaced by Indian systems (cockpit displays, com systems, EW sensors, Astra to replace R27 and R77, Sudarshan to replace KAB 500...).

 

[GURU DUTT]

im pretty sure to keep both ruskies and chinese in check india will also buy japnese fifth gen fighters along with FGFA & PAKFA + AURA & AMCA

 

[sancho]

Engines on the FGFA show its not a real 5 gen.

Yes, because Supercruise and Thrust Vectoring capabilities are not NG, oh wait not even F35 and J20 have this yet. Damn these Russians!

 

[SR-91]

Russia is only a weapons supplier. A good one, mind you but just a weapons supplier. The Soviet Union was India's friend and helped them whenever they needed help

N they got paid LOVELY for it!!!!

 

[axisofevil]

Yes, because Supercruise and Thrust Vectoring capabilities are not NG, oh wait not even F35 and J20 have this yet. Damn these Russians!

Thrust vectoring and Supercruise is available on some jets already. I was referring to stealth which Russia has issues with it. Plus, spare and cost escalations are an issue with them. Look at the past.

Supercruise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Thrust vectoring - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Check this out:

The Aviationist » “Raptor’s thrust vectoring not essential” Eurofighter pilot says in last chapter of the F-22 vs Typhoon saga