Who killed Gen. Zia?

[Bratva]

A crate of mangoes containing nerve gas agent exploded in cockpit, which paralyzed everybody, hence aircraft lost it's control as there was none to drive and it exploded, killing all on board.

The crate was put into C-130 just before it was about to takeoff by a low or mid level air force officer

And the follow up enquiry by ISI/FBI were suppressed by both sides for reasons unknown. But it is generally assumed it was suppressed due to involvement of foreign players and would stir a shyte storm for ISI and MI in Pakistan. FBI suppressed it because they could not either handle the public pressure and would had to take action against the unknown entity,thus causing delay in Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan, which means giving them time to regroup again.

Thus for greater good, they had to cover up the "minor" hiccup

 

[blood]

Hindu propaganda that Pakistani libz believe.

normal hindus don't even know who he was..its just pdf hindus who know this loser.
as far as i know he banned cinema in your country and imposed many restrictions during his oppressive rule which took your country 40 years back which otherwise was once a good country!..so good for you if you think he was some great.

 

[Jaanbaz]

This guy worked for CIA in the middle east and killed Palestinian resistance forces in cold blood, And then USA appointed him to destroy pakistani society.

Usually i don't believe in conspiracy theories without proves. But one thing i am certain that USA and wahabis are allies in their war against humanity.

 

[Slav Defence]

The only people that are happy about it are the.once a week praying kaafir Pakistanis, aka hindus.

They are just jealous they could never be 1/100 th of the man General Zia was.

Well yes,I have also heard alot of his personal character,but some has complains regarding to his strategies about soviet,they blame him for TTP,and when I say that lapses produced after his assassination,not before and that strategy was perfect at at time as Russia was threat against it,when they deny it,I ask them of better policy which they suggest,they don't respond then

 

[Jaanbaz]

A crate of mangoes containing nerve gas agent exploded in cockpit, which paralyzed everybody, hence aircraft lost it's control as there was none to drive and it exploded, killing all on board.

You sir just completed one of the greatest mysteries of mankind. Millions of humans have been working hard to figure how Zia died. Now we are all in your debts. Shower us with more of your wisdom so we may be enlightened.

 

[RazPaK]

Well yes,I have also heard alot of his personal character,but some has complains regarding to his strategies about soviet,they blame him for TTP,and when I say that lapses produced after his assassination,not before and that strategy was perfect at at time as Russia was threat against it,when they deny it,I ask them of better policy which they suggest,they don't respond then

Why there was no TTP in his time then?

It's all bakwas hindutva propaganda.


Zia wouldn't tolerate extremists either. If Lal Masjid happened during Zia's time, those Maulvis would have urinated in their shalwars.

 

[Pakistani E]

You're right. zia wouldn't just tolerate these molvis he would have picked em up and put them in his lap, like he did....
Since the topic isn't really what your personal opinions are off him I'm not going to say what I think of him.
Personally I think it was some elements within the military establishment, they were probably fed up with his antics and messiah complex. Ofcourse they would'nt have acted without the consent of the USA, since we know he himself was supported and nurtured by the USA.
Regarding Al-Zulfiqar and PPP supporters, I think you should'nt dismiss them either, Bhutto had and still does quite a few fanatical followers, many people even burnt themselves when he was hanged. And ppp has always had supporters in the military(although quite less compared to nanga group).
And before I forget...Zia ul haq will never have any respect in my eyes because he promised something and once a momin promises he does it. Just because people label mard-e-momin does'nt make him one. I hope he's burning in the deepest pits of hell.

 

[Jaanbaz]

You're right. zia wouldn't just tolerate these molvis he would have picked em up and put them in his lap, like he did....
Since the topic isn't really what your personal opinions are off him I'm not going to say what I think of him.
Personally I think it was some elements within the military establishment, they were probably fed up with his antics and messiah complex. Ofcourse they would'nt have acted without the consent of the USA, since we know he himself was supported and nurtured by the USA.
Regarding Al-Zulfiqar and PPP supporters, I think you should'nt dismiss them either, Bhutto had and still does quite a few fanatical followers, many people even burnt themselves when he was hanged. And ppp has always had supporters in the military(although quite less compared to nanga group).
And before I forget...Zia ul haq will never have any respect in my eyes because he promised something and once a momin promises he does it. Just because people label mard-e-momin does'nt make him one. I hope he's burning in the deepest pits of hell.

Its hard to take you seriously after looking at your avatar.

 

[ashley.1965]

The butcher of Jordan who killed more number of Palestinians, Great Idol for the people like you who hide behind Key boards.
By the way ,what kind of man is he, who enjoys killing people in cold blood?
Manhood means a level headed capable guy who knows what to do when no like "jinga lala hoo", which pakistanis think ....

And what is your opinion of people like yourself, who also hide behind keyboards, and spew lies 24/7?

The story of Zia's alleged killing of Palestinians is apocryphal at best, and outright sinister at worst. Granted that it has entered popular consciousness as a truism and is considered as factual by many. Very few people, however, have bothered to check the facts - that requires effort, and it is of course far easier to continue to demonize Zia.

The following piece is by Tayyab Siddiqui, a former Pakistani diplomat posted in Jordan, and later a journalist for Pakistani newspapers. Note that this is a first-hand eyewitness account.


Ziaul Haq: personal reminiscences
18-08-08
Tayyab Siddiqui

It was a crisp October afternoon when the PIA plane on which I travelled touched down at Amman. I was embarking on my diplomatic career with first posting to Jordan in 1969. On arrival, I was received by an Embassy official and ushered into the VIP Lounge. The Ambassador along with three army officers greeted me warmly. I felt elated at this high level of protocol, but soon the ego balloon burst when I discovered that the Ambassador was leaving for Aligarh to be with his ailing octogenarian father, Nawab of Chatari, and the army brass was there not to greet me, but rather to see him off. I was introduced to the army officers. All three were brigadiers: Ziaul Haq, Iftikhar Rana and Yasin. This was my first meeting with Ziaul Haq, which soon blossomed into close friendship and mutual trust that lasted until Zia’s last moments.

Amman, built on seven hills like Rome, was a peaceful little town. The fateful June ‘67 Arab-Israeli war had deeply scarred the Arab psyche. Jordan had lost half of its territory. The feeling of shame at their comprehensive defeat was palpable.

Pakistan had sent a small contingent to train the Jordanian army. The training mission consisted of about 20 officers, drawn from both the army and air force, and was led by Major General Nawazish Ali. The air force team’s leader was Anwar Shamim, who later became Chief of Pakistan Air Force.

The June ‘67 war had resulted in a heavy exodus of Palestinians to Jordan. The refugee camps spread over the entire Jabal Hussain were seething with angry young Palestinians. The emergence of Qadafi in Libya in September 1969 and his revolutionary rhetoric against Israel revived the faith in Arab destiny. The battle of Karameh, a small border town, saw the first direct engagement between IDF and Palestinians on March 21, 1968, when a reprisal attack was resisted by PLO fighters. Israel lost 28 soldiers, 90 were wounded and they retreated, abandoning 18 tanks. Fatah’s losses amounted to 93 killed and “many” injured. The battle of Karameh changed the course of Middle Eastern history, with Palestinian fighters, the “fedayeen”, becoming the heroes of the Arab world. The Palestinian youth were brimming with confidence and bristling with resentment at the failure of Arab potentates. President Nasser had lost much of his glamour with the emergence of Gaddafi, who opened his coffers for the Palestinians and captured their imagination with wild denunciation of Arab monarchs and Israel. Totting guns on their shoulders, the young fedayeen showed total contempt for Jordanians. They provoked and humiliated army officers by setting road blocs and physical checks. They became a law unto themselves, totally oblivious of the consequences.

Resistance groups among Palestinians sprouted, each with a separate ideology and leadership. Yasser Arafat, lovingly called ‘Abu Ammar,’ headed the moderate Fatah, while radical splinter groups were led by George Habash, Naef Hawatmeh and Ahmad Jibrail. Palestinian youth were disenchanted with Arab leadership, in particular the monarchs, whom they regarded as corrupt, inefficient and lackeys of the West. Radical groups, such as the PFLP and PDFLP, were indoctrinated, supported and sustained by the Soviet Union. They believed that the Palestinian revolution wouldn’t realize until the corrupt monarchies in the region were done away with. The relationship between Arab rulers and Palestinians was thus one of mutual fear and hatred.

Arafat believed that for the liberation struggle to succeed, it had to work with frontline Arab states, even though they were ready to make peace with Israel. Habash favoured a revolutionary way and believed that the revolution had to begin in Jordan by provoking a confrontation to bring down King Hussain. Fatah’s policy was to confine the violence to the land of Palestine. The PFLP did not agree. It started a terror campaign against Jewish interests inside and outside the Middle East, beginning with an attack on an Israeli passenger plane at the Beirut Airport.

On 6 September 1970, the PFLP staged a spectacular hijack operation, involving four international airlines – PAN-AM, Swiss Air, BOAC and TWA. They landed at Dawson’s field, a strip of desert in Jordan. An attempt to hijack an El-AL plane was foiled by Israeli security and hijacker Leila Khalid was arrested in London. The PFLP demanded her release, and when their demand was refused, hijacked a BOAC airliner, which they also brought to Dawson’s field. Finally, she was released along with 600 passengers but the airplanes were blown up.

The hijacking intensified clashes between the fedayeen and King Hussain’s forces, who were losing patience with the arrogance and foolhardiness of the fedyaeen. The security situation deteriorated by the day. Fatal clashes between the Jordian army and fedayeen became routine. In June, Amman had been declared a non-family station and the families of the members of military mission were sent back home. I shifted to Zia’s house and lived there for nearly four months, until I was transferred to Beirut in June 1970. Soon, the military mission was also recalled to Pakistan in view of the developing Bangladesh crisis. Weary of the fedayeen’s contemptible behaviour, King Hussain’s generals mounted a ruthless onslaught to drive the fedayeen out of Jordan completely in September 1970. Thousands were massacred by Hussain’s troops in what came to be known as ‘Black September’.

Pakistan’s involvement in the killings of Palestinians and Brigadier Zia’s role in the events of Black September has been the staple of fanciful reports about how Zia personally led the campaign. These reports have been highly exaggerated. Pakistan’s army contingent in Amman comprised of not more than 20 officials of all ranks as mentioned earlier. In June 1970, an ACK regiment arrived in Amman at the request of King Hussain to protect Jordan’s air space against violations by Israeli and Syrian planes, but they simply had no combat role or capacity. It may also be mentioned that such military training missions were also assigned to Syria, Iraq and Libya, purely for training purposes. Jordan was not an exception.

The presence of the Pakistan training mission against this backdrop soon pulled it into the vortex of Arab intrigues and conspiracies. Its presence was magnified and exaggerated by vested groups. Our ambassador in Delhi had cautioned us against the surreptitious induction of Indian army officers belonging to RAW in PLO and PFLP ranks. Their assignment was to sow doubts and misgivings regarding Pakistan among Palestinians. The vicious propaganda regarding Zia’s role was certainly their handiwork.

It was September 2 when I received a call from Brigadier Zia informing me that the King had asked him to take over the command of the 3rd armoured division, stationed in Irbid. Syria has moved with an armoured brigade into Jordan. Major-General Qasim Motta, the Jordanian commander, had deserted and Zia was asked to take over.

It was a coincidence that Ambassador Chittari and Major General Nawazish both were out of Jordan at this time. I was the chargé d’affaires and Zia, the senior most army officer. Zia told the King that he would need political clearance from the embassy before he responded to the King’s command. I told Zia that the contingent’s mandate was not to fight and hence I would need permission from Islamabad. Telephone connections were dead. There were no cipher links either. The only communication link was telex based on Morse code. After a few hours’ effort, I established contact with Sultan M. Khan, the Foreign Secretary, who declined to give any instructions and advised me to contact the military brass. Finally I reached Mr Ghias Uddin, then Secretary General Defence. To my utter horror, without a moment’s hesitance, Ghias gave me the green signal. When I tried to explain the implications, I was cut short with a brief sentence: “We had Istikhara, Hashmite Kingdom’s star is ascendant. Go ahead. Follow the King’s commands.” That the foreign defence policy of Pakistan was formulated not on a dispassionate analysis of the situation but on the dubious religious invocation still amazes me.

Brigadier Zia accordingly took over the command in Irbid, but before any major military operation, the Syrians under intense pressure from the US and Israel, withdrew. This was the sum total of Pakistan’s involvement or Zia’s role in the alleged massacre of the Palestinians.

source: Zia & Black September

 

[Sinnerman108]

@ashley.1965

Do you really believe people will believe this ?
Their perception is biased , and intelligence too incapable of research or to support a rational argument.

They would rather believe the dramatic story than truth.

 

[ashley.1965]

@ashley.1965

Do you really believe people will believe this ?
Their perception is biased , and intelligence too incapable of research or to support a rational argument.

They would rather believe the dramatic story than truth.

People can believe whatever they like. Facts, however, are facts. There are two things to keep in mind:

1. We live in the age of propaganda, and it is easier to believe lies than truth. But truth has its own dynamic, and always wins out in the end.

2. Most of the anti-Zia propaganda is based on hearsay. The same cannot be said about Tayyab Siddiqui, who lived through the events first hand. So which carries more weight, an eyewitness, or hearsay?

 

[ashley.1965]

Hej Hej my Pakistani friends

Since I admire General Zia for what he had done to Pakistan, the remarkable effort he put to get the Soviet out, and his determination to continue Pakistan's nuclear program back then and so on. Without a doubt, He was one of the most influential figures in the 20th Centuries, his legacy lives with us to this moment. Therefore, I'm eager to listen to each and every one of you regarding his assassination, who do you think orchestrated the operation?

The following link has an excellent analysis, and includes mention of John Gunther Dean:

Who killed General Zia of Pakistan? | Hussain Saqib

Dean was US ambassador to India - after he implicated certain countries in Zia's assassination, he was labelled (tellingly) as a lunatic and forced to quit.

Those with eyes can draw their own conclusions.

 

[Chak Bamu]

@ashley.1965, thanks for the article about Zia's time in Jordan. This clears up a number of things and I am grateful for coming across it. The other article is also informative, though I doubt RAW & MOSSAD had such penetration in Pakistan's Army.

@Yzd Khalifa, thanks for the thread about Gen Zia. I would like to take this as an opportunity to try to explain to those who have only heard of Gen Zia and not actually lived during his time. Most young ones have no idea what Cold War was like and what was Pakistan's role in it. Gen Zia's rule was an interesting episode in our history and pivotal in how Cold War's end game unfolded.

I remember the tumultuous last years of ZA Bhutto's government. I would have happily participated in demonstrations and marches against his government had I been old enough. My family did not like Mr. Bhutto and his looney Marxist policies that dented Pakistan's growth and well-being.

Imposition of Martial Law in 1977 was welcomed by many, us among them. That was wrong, but we did not know any better then. The Zia years had some turbulence and were generally stable. I feel amazed at times at how well Pakistan handled so many challenges in that period, and that too under a dictatorship.

Many people today just go along with the simple 'Liberal' narrative that dumps the blame for everything wrong with Pakistan at Zia's door. This is a superficial view that does not go into the detail for fear of finding out that the 'customer' (Pakistanis at large) does not actually like the 'product' (Liberalism). Most Pakistanis are conservative and pragmatic. Their view of Zia years is not one of unqualified condemnation. Sure, most of us do not condone what was done to Bhutto - but we do realize that Bhutto dug his own grave in some way. We also know that Zia was a dictator and there is no supporting him in that. But beyond the done deal that we did have upon us (Martial Law), if we actually look at the Zia years, there is a lot to look at:

1. Re-establishment of business confidence after the disaster of Bhutto's mis-handling of Pakistani economy.
2. Execution of strategic plans that had been drawn during mid 70s about Afghanistan.
3. Indirect and covert support for secessionist movements in India, most noteworthy being in Indian Punjab.
4. Confrontation with USSR and management of Afghan Jihad so that USSR could not risk actually attacking Pakistan.
5. Regaining shaken national confidence.

But most importantly, the one thing that almost happened and which was cut short with his death:
6. Strategic outreach of Pakistan beyond its borders that was calculated to expand Pakistan's sphere of influence deep into Central Asia.

USSR's dissolution was a foregone conclusion. American vision of managing the fallout found its expression in Zia's death.

To this day, I have no doubt that CIA was the agency which used its assets inside Paksitan to 'manage' Zia.

 

[Silverblaze]

He was most probably killed by the US intelligence after his utility had expired. Many South americans had been removed this way. As a person he was an icon of sycophancy.

He was trained at Fort Bragg and American DIA liked him very much. He was also instrumental in Black September in Jordan.

He gifted the country politicians as Nawaz shareef, gillani and many other landlords.

So, many Pakistanis respect him.

 

[Fracker]

@Topic

As everyone telling their personal feelings, I would also comment on it. I liked Zia ul Haq too much like millions millions people who cried, and gather for his Janzah. This is the fact that majority of Pakistanis at that time liked him too much..

Ok lets get to the topic, key points to be mentioned here...

1) American convincing Mr, Zia for faulty demonstration, even it wasn't ready.
2) Mango crate moving in without any check up.
3) Pilot crew went unconscious due to some gas, most of the reports are it came from Israel.

most of the Pakistanis believe CIA/RAW were involved in it. And from that day only the hate for USA was started among Pakistanis, and it grew when they attacked Afghanistan, and that fire spreaded into Pakistan. They all knows, Taliban ended Opium crops, but CIA grew it back. They know, in 1996, most of the Afghanistan was peaceful to go and was safe for Pakistanis. But today even bordered area isn't secure.