Who Is Behind Data Darbar Bombing in Pakistan?

[r3alist]

what further proof do you need... check out DAWN.COM | Home | Latest News, Pakistan, World, Business, Cricket and Multimedia instead of Zaid Hamid Photography for a change and am sure u will find pretty much information...

since ur in uk... havent u seen enough of proof from the subway attack by pakistanies themselves... havent you seen demands made by msulims... mainly pakistanis... for implementing sharia law in uk... and for hells sake.. one of the MPs of pakistani orgin in UK parliment called for stoning ... ha... if these things happen outside pakistan.. what do u expect them to do in pakistan... yes so somewhere down the line there is something wrong with the ideology being spread..

it is easy to wake up a sleeping person... but not a person who pretends to be sleeping...

the link you posted leads to nothing

the muslims calling for sharia in england are a handful of people, the majority are against it

you did not take long to expose yourself, not sneaky enough for an indian, good night

 

[abrahams]

the link you posted leads to nothing

the muslims calling for sharia in england are a handful of people, the majority are against it

you did not take long to expose yourself, not sneaky enough for an indian, good night

ha by the way... the links .. i just keyed in www dawn com and www zaid hamid com ... and other things.. came in automatically once i posted it...

i guess.. u got sufficient irrefutable proofs... to keep yourself shut for a while..

by the way two things...

a bad apple spoils the lot
and
if you cant beat them... join them...

 

[r3alist]

ha by the way... the links .. i just keyed in www dawn com and www zaid hamid com ... and other things.. came in automatically once i posted it...

i guess.. u got sufficient irrefutable proofs... to keep yourself shut for a while..

by the way two things...

a bad apple spoils the lot
and
if you cant beat them... join them...

excuse me - your proof is where?

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

I doubt if the kind of people that carry out these suicide bombings really care whom they kill all that much,,they have been brained washed since the time of birth by religion and martyrdom, by heros that blew up jewish resturant and buses.

They has spent their teenage years masterbating to the idea that once they become a "martyr" they will spend enternity in paradise with 72 virgins that are theirs to command.
Hell maybe that why we christians dont make good martyrs, all we get is harp and have to set around on clouds singing Hoanas for eternity.

 

[r3alist]

the targeting of these attacks is specific, its based on minority sects - what happens when you attack minorities - you cause civil conflict.

who would want that?

 

[sparklingway]

the targeting of these attacks is specific, its based on minority sects - what happens when you attack minorities - you cause civil conflict.

who would want that?

Cui bono is useless in objective debate.

 

[SMC]

Guys.. all this deal about proof. Remember nearly all Indians believe that Pakistan is supporting terrorists without any proof and then they call anything anti-India conspiracy theory. So please spare us the hypocrisy and the double standards.

 

[Bhim]

The recent Data Darbar bombing in Lahore and other similar tragic attacks have most likely been carried out by religious militants of various stripes operating openly in Pakistan. But the actual frontline attackers appear to be mere proxies acting on behalf of other, more powerful forces with much bigger axes to grind. The real identities and the agendas of these powerful forces financing and patronizing such heinous attacks are not well understood. The list of such patrons appears to be long and diverse, extending from self-serving Pakistani politicians to elements within Pakistani and/or foreign intelligence agencies. Each of them have their own agenda to exploit the internal divisions and the availability of remote-controlled human drones willing to commit such acts for their own reasons and motivations. I personally believe that India is at or near the top of the list of suspects in this unfolding tragedy. Here is why I have a strong suspicion that India is fishing in Pakistan's troubled waters:

My friend again Hypothesis.


In the wake of Mumbai attacks, there has been open public discussion in India about carrying out covert actions by Indian agents to destabilize and balkanize Pakistan. Several well-known security think tanks and influential analysts in India appear to have helped forge a consensus to carry out covert warfare in Pakistan by taking advantage of its current instability and multiple crises.

There are strong indications that the Indian security and intelligence establishment has finally launched the covert war in Pakistan that they have been planning for about a year. Do you have any proof for this? The Indian officials have been seething since last year because of their inability to "punish" Pakistan following the Mumbai terrorist attacks that they blamed on Pakistan. They shelved the idea of lightning air strikes strategy dubbed "Cold Start" against Pakistan for fear of sparking a major war. But they have continued to talk about covert actions by Indian agents to destabilize and balkanize Pakistan. Former RAW chief B. Raman has argued that India appoint a covert ops specialist as the new head of RAW. Strange no one in India knows this, how did you get the information? He said last December that “at this critical time in the nation’s history, RAW has no covert action specialists at the top of its pyramid. Get a suitable officer from the IB or the Army. If necessary, make him the head of the organization.”

Vikram Sood, another former top spy in India, has elaborated on Ind ia's covert warfare options to target Pakistan Nice deviations, all cooked up stories. in the following words: "Covert action can be of various kinds. One is the paramilitary option, which is what the Pakistanis have been using against us. It is meant to hurt, destabilize or retaliate. The second is the psychological war option, which is a very potent and unseen force. It is an all weather option and constitutes essentially changing perceptions of friends and foes alike. The media is a favorite instrument, provided it is not left to the bureaucrats because then we will end up with some clumsy and implausible propaganda effort. More than the electronic and print media, it is now the internet and YouTube that can be the next-generation weapons of psychological war. Terrorists use these liberally and so should those required to counter terrorism."

S.M. Mushrif, former Police Chief of Maharashtra and the author of "Who Killed Karkare?", believes that the Indian Intelligence Bureau (IB) is up to its neck in conspiring with the extreme Hindutva groups against Indian Muslims and creating trouble between India and Pakistan, and now it is ominous to see one of the former IB leaders K.C. Verma heading RAW as of last year. Please leave India and its population out of this wicked campaign of yours. People like you have no religious tolerance nor can you see tolerance flourishing in other countries. People like you are bringing misery to mankind.

The power establishment that really runs the affairs of India (Mushrif says it is not Sonia Gandhi, Manmohan Singh or Rahul Gandhi) does not want to expose the rabidly anti-Muslim Hindutva terrorists.

Verma was appointed last year as the new head of RAW, regarded as one of the top intelligence agencies along with Mossad, ISI, SVR, MI6, and the CIA. This choice appears to have been made at the suggestion of intelligence hawks like B. Raman to appoint an outsider, in spite of significant resistance from within the agency. Mr. Verma has been tasked with rapidly building strong covert ops capabilities within RAW. It is not a coincidence that the terrorist attacks in Pakistan have dramatically increased since Verma took the reins of RAW.

I am basing my opinion on the track record (RAW's extensive role in East Pakistan and Balochistan) With your hypothesis you are doing a lot of harm to Pakistan. Keep it up, we are amused. and the strong desire (as expressed through multiple Op Eds and analyses carried by Indian media) of the Indian security establishment. It can also be seen in India's so-called "think tanks" and "analysts" which are the product of a revolving door in Delhi, a cheap copy from Washington similar to the Hindi-ized Bollywood knockoffs of Hollywood blockbusters.

Indians have demonstrated that they have the strong motives and the means to hurt Pakistan. They have established a powerful presence in Afghanistan along the border with Pakistan and deployed significant resources to carry out a very violent covert war inside Pakistan, and they appear to have now found the opportunity among the willing allies in the Pakistani Taliban faction in Mehsud tribe.

Given the strong probability of Indian involvement Again Probabilities and you are so firm in believing ?/i n the current crisis, the Pakistani security and intelligence establishment can not rely on counterinsurgency operations alone to stop the civilian carnage on Pakistani streets. The counterinsurgency operations must be supplemented with serious efforts to cut off support and funding for the TTP and their allies in Punjab, and disrupt the Indian intelligence network operating out of Afghanistan. It will require superior intelligence and significant counter-intelligence operations, as well as an effective diplomatic offensive to put pressure on India to stop its covert war being waged on Pakistani soil. [URL="http://www.pakistanideology.com"]Source: Pakistan Ideology

Nawaz

Thank you for the entertainment.

For you the whole world revolves around Anti India.

 

[Bhim]

Guys.. all this deal about proof. Remember nearly all Indians believe that Pakistan is supporting terrorists without any proof and then they call anything anti-India conspiracy theory. So please spare us the hypocrisy and the double standards.

So you want all the tons of proof all over again??

Well it may be that GOP is not involved directly, but there are these rogue elements that not only India, but the whole world has identified, can you deny their existence?
Don't turn a blind eye to a problem, that has now slowly started to affect your state. This will and is doing great harm to Pakistan.

Otherwise you all are free to accuse India/Israel/ USA as much as you want, but reality can not change.

 

[SMC]

So you want all the tons of proof all over again??

Well it may be that GOP is not involved directly, but there are these rogue elements that not only India, but the whole world has identified, can you deny their existence?
Don't turn a blind eye to a problem, that has now slowly started to affect your state. This will and is doing great harm to Pakistan.

Otherwise you all are free to accuse India/Israel/ USA as much as you want, but reality can not change.

Do you actually know what I am talking about? Indians accuse ISI and the Pakistani state for supporting terrorism. There's no proof of that, yet they have no problem accusing. But they cry when Pakistanis accuse India.

As for the rest of the stuff such as turning the blind eye, well you're putting words into my mouth and trying to read my brain. What you said about me there is completely false.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Do you actually know what I am talking about? Indians accuse ISI and the Pakistani state for supporting terrorism. There's no proof of that, yet they have no problem accusing. But they cry when Pakistanis accuse India.

As for the rest of the stuff such as turning the blind eye, well you're putting words into my mouth and trying to read my brain. What you said about me there is completely false.

Indians are right in the fact that Pakistan is supporting terrorist, what is in question if it includes organizations related to the goverment in Pakistan. There is no doubt that makeing heros of Martyas that attacked Isreal plays a part, theres no doubt that Pakistans Religious Schools play a part, and that a number of Mullas play a part.

What has really set back extremist in the USA like the KKK and far right and anitiabortions groups violence (every country has them) is makeing them responsible for acts of violence. While you still have freedom of speech, if any group advocates violence in the USA that group can be held responsible financially if a jury finds that contributed to that violence...For example if a Mosques or Mullah in the USA advocates violence and one of the people that follow the Mullah or attend the Mosque commits a act of violence that Mosque or Mullah or KKK group can lose every thing they have and every thing they earn in the future.
If you serve on the board of directors you can also be held responsible.

Preaching violence is not near as much fun for people when they know it might cost them every thing they own.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

State of Denial And Apologetic Defense Continues……​

The horrific details of the attacks on the Sufi shrine of Hazrat Ali Hajvery (also known as Data Gunj Baksh) are beginning to settle in. Terrorist have now struck in the middle of the monument of a tolerant mystic version of Islam. As expected the condemnation is widespread but as usual accusation is misplaced. While going through various websites, I came to know (without surprise of course) that the Pakistani public was generally pointing fingers at the “usual suspect”: United States of America. In fact Yahoo News had made it one of its main page stories that Pakistanis were blaming USA for the attacks at the holy shrine of Hazrat Ali Hajvery.

An interesting development was that Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) was quick to deny that it was behind it. Some of the Pakistanis are actually using that denial as a proof that foreign powers are behind this blast. The irony is that the same public which is ready to believe the current denial of TTP does not believe when the same TTP claims responsibility!!!! Its really ironic that when TTP claims responsibility for every blast, we think it is a grand conspiracy and when it denies involvement, we are ready to believe!!

No matter what kind of evidence is presented , our public’s response always end up being broadly under either of the two categories: outright denial according to which it is a grand conspiracy of the West; and apologetic defense where the attacks are construed as the reaction of USA’s presence in Afghanistan and its other atrocities. While the later response is less absurd but is equally dangerous as it creates a soft corner for the monsters instead of much needed revulsion. And furthermore it makes it even more difficult to understand how literal Wahabi version of Islam is creating havoc with our faith.

Both the responses are slightly variant outcomes of the same mindset. One has to just have a critical approach to bring out the absurdities in both the largely held point of views.

First let’s take conspiracy theories. Muslim world in general and the Pakistan’s educated public in particular, truly excel in the art of coming up with amazingly complex conspiracy theories. According to these conspiracy theories everything in Pakistan, particularly disruptive things, are planned in Washington and with active consultation of Israel and India. The theories display amazing combination of permanence and progressiveness. Permanence is shown in the eventual blame which keeps affixed on USA and progressiveness is in the interpretation of changing facts and ground realities where it is amended in fantastic ways to reach the same conclusion. . Consider this: In 1990s the entire public and media were praising Taliban. When Clinton attacked Osama’s bases through cruise missiles in late 1990s, Nawaz Sharif almost lost his government and had to bring “shariah” laws to survive. At that point Taliban were heroes and robin hoods which had defied the “imperialist” USA. Then 9/11 happened. All the media was busy absolving Osama of terrorism and I remember the title of a lead English weekly magazine” Guilty unless proved Innocent”. Then Osama on video accepted responsibility and suddenly the very same media started branding him an agent of USA. After 9/11 whatever happened whether in Pakistan (multiple suicide attacks and Benazir’s assassination), India (Mumbai bomb blasts and attacks in November 2008) and UK (7/7 attacks), was interpreted as US conspiracy to blame Taliban and Pakistan with the eventual aim to take control of nuclear arsenal. In the past we have just kept on changing spins to be consistent with our preconceived conclusion. Just a chronological arrangement, such as above, is enough to show how absurd these theories are!

But what may be the reason for this? The reasons in my opinion are manifold and some are imbedded in our cognitive framework while rest are the outcome of international events and the actual behaviour of foreign players.

First of all, conspiracy theories appeal to our fundamental and deeply held conviction that a Muslim cannot do anything which would bring a bad name to Islam and lead to adverse consequences to the Muslim community. Moreover, apparently the more fundamentalist you are in your appearance, harder it is for the public to actually believe that you are capable of these actions. This may explain why it was difficult for the public to believe that Taliban were behind anything and all was US propaganda. And it also makes sense as to why they are now interpreted as “agents” or bifurcated between “good” and “bad” Taliban once it has become clear bombers are indeed Muslims. Now according to our media “experts” there are some bad Taliban who have been bought over by Western powers and they are very different from “good” Taliban such as Mullah Omar.

Secondly, we always link consequences with origination. Since terrorism “benefits” West because it defames Islam and gives them a justification to retaliate, therefore in our logic it must have been solely planned by them. In our country, the nuclear issue is extremely sensitive and somehow or the other assumed a central place due to our inherent insecurities and also crisis of identity. Moreover, the nuclear arsenal is perhaps the only thing which actually elevates Pakistan to at least a factor to reckon with at the global stage. It’s no wonder that every terrorist activity is then conveniently linked with the global conspiracy to destabilize Pakistan with the ultimate objective of taking hold of nuclear arsenal. Now there is merit in this thought that Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal would always be giving the US and the West sleepless nights but to give these amazing spins that al-Qaeda is planted by USA and suicide attacks are planned and carried by USA alone is really mind boggling and moreover self contradictory. Because if Al-Qaeda and Taliban are indeed planted then military action in FATA would actually eliminate these agents and deprive US of the justification to take military action to neutralize the nuclear assets.

Thirdly, the conspiracy theories also owe their existence (though not the extent of their weirdness) to foreign powers’ actual way of dealing which has always been oppressive and suspicious. The flimsy case of war in Iraq has merely strengthened and worst still apparently provided some sellable legitimacy to the conspiracy theorists. Whenever there is any question to authenticity to fantastic theories, the Iraq war and US general way of handling crisis is cited as justification. As a result self contradictory theories which brand militants as US agents and yet resist government crackdown by labelling it as US war, find acceptability in the public.

Now regarding the second and increasingly widely held point of view that terrorism is merely a result of American presence. I will ask simple questions here. If tomorrow USA leaves Afghanistan will this extremism stop? Secondly, if everything is just a reaction, what will explain the Punjabi Taliban? After all we can link Afghan and Tribal area Taliban with this “revenge” approach but what about the variety which has been creating havoc in Lahore. In fact after continuous denial, finally the Punjab Government is partially admitting that they have a local version of the monsters.

Now if you think that if drone attacks kill people in tribal areas and as a reaction some fanatics in Punjab are getting aggrieved and blowing themselves in Holy Shrines, then clearly there is some logical fallacy in your thinking pattern. Moreover, even if one believes this “reaction” theory, is the killing of innocent MUSLIMS justified? Why are we so naïve that we cannot see this obvious truth? Why we are ready to condemn drone attacks which are much more targeted and totally unable to condemn when far more people are killed by monsters like Taliban?

Unless and until we are able to condemn the monsters we will never be able to win this war against extremism. We need to feel revulsion against them and we will only feel it when we start looking more critically at things. Any society has to indulge into an honest intellectual discourse at the time of crisis. Unfortunately, we as a nation not only resist it, but are completely blinded to our own faults. Unless and until we indulge in serious self introspection, we will continue to fall into this mayhem. We need to encourage tolerance and intellectual openness, without which there will be no room for a pluralistic culture and a milder version of our great religion.

State of Denial And Apologetic Defense Continues?? Pak Tea House

 

[kugga]

Why Pakistanis are in a state of denial.... We listen it now and then that Pakistanis are in a state of denial but why they are.... ??

 

[Old School]

I will ask simple questions here. If tomorrow USA leaves Afghanistan will this extremism stop?

No, the extremists will claim a big victory if the Americans leave as they did after the Soviets left Afghanistan. Islamic extremists are pathetic creatures who always love to play victims while victimizing others with utmost brutality throughout history. They hate Americans because American as the sole super power challenged their quest to establish a global Caliphate . The extremists are nothing new in the long 1000 years history of Arab Imperialism.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Why Pakistanis are in a state of denial.... We listen it now and then that Pakistanis are in a state of denial but why they are.... ??

because they are simply obsessed too see enemies every where & think of them selves as super natural being from whom world is jealous when reality is that they literally have nothing from which world will be jealous, They are blinded by a veil of religious bigotry which forces them to sympathize with terrorists & put all blame on infidels & they don't even condemn the acts of holiness because after all people from a Kafir Sect got killed