Which AESA radar fits better the JF-17 Block 3?

[帅的一匹]

I am surprised you took offence to it. It is an opinion expressed. Not everything in life is to your liking. Get over it. China has moved a long way but still has far to go. Llok at your attack Helo. You gave it to Pak, we evaluated it and gave our feedback. It was not upto our expectation. Instead of taking offence try and make it better.
I will only say this much, the man you took afront at is an expert at radar and avionics and a senior most retired officer of PAF and one of the most senior position wise on the net currently. So have respe t cor his opinion even if you dont agree with it..
Regards.
A


Dont disrespect seniors please. You can have analternative view point. Respect the man and his service.
A


Great! Keep up the good work and continue improving.
A

@araz I don't feel angry at all. No need to blame each other between Pakistani members.
Like what @The SC said: the price of the item decides the quality we deliver(material, configuration). Like a car, you can have high or low configuration. It's flexible. We are honest with the specification and lifespan of the weapon we sell.
@MastanKhan some of the type 59 we sold to the south east counties in 1960 are still serving in their army.

Politically, we can't get in high end market of the west. The third world countries can't pay that much as we want. We struggled to live in the middle.

But now things change, as we get access to the Middle East market, even some counties in the Europe. The gate to high end market is open. The quality is improving and politically we are getting stronger.

As a previous PAF senior officer, he have my very much respect. But things changed a lot after he retired.

Let's agree to disagree. I won't really get mad at any Pakistani member when he has different idea. If my expression is too fierce and offending, I apologize to you guys. I don't take it personally.

 

[Beast]

Hi,

Reasoning not acceptable---. China does not sell because of cheap price---it sells because it is available---.

Militaries willingly pay more for a better quality weapon---.

Not necessary. Why Bangladesh buy Chinese old Type Ming 035? It’s not the best compare to S-80 sub but becos it fits the budget of Bangladesh.

An many other countries like Sudan, Zambia , Congo will go for cheap weapon. PLAAF has make the weapon according to market need. And as some mention, gone are the days where China need to sell its best for hard cash. PLA has put restriction on what can be exported and what cannot. Like J-20 and Type99A2 tank which both are restricted for sale.

 

[帅的一匹]

Not necessary. Why Bangladesh buy Chinese old Type Ming 035? It’s not the best compare to S-80 sub but becos it fits the budget of Bangladesh.

Budget is important. As the quality improves, the price of our product also increase. VT4 tags 5.8 millions USD. And J20 is over 100 millions USD in cost.

Argentia' economy is in bad shapes that they can't even afford few JF17. What we gonna do?

@Beast doing business is not easy

 

[帅的一匹]

Not affordable to them will be more true.. and that is where china gets in..
Anyway, you are talking about what China should do, and I am talking about the realities on the ground.. so obviously we are not on the same wave of reasoning..

Cheers

36 Rafale for 10 billion, who can afford it except Mr.India?
what only 36 Rafale can do in a war against China?
I will choose to build 400 units of JF17 than only 36 rafales with those money.

 

[帅的一匹]

Tiger tank is so good, still it can't withstand the torrent of T34.

Like Mastan Bhi suggest: China's goal is to have 'Tiger' in bulks.

Both quality and quantity matter in a war. And the ability to produce weapon incessantly during war time.

I think China shall invite some of the retired PAF senior officer to have a sit in J20's cockpit, then we will listen their opinion after that.

Things change.

How can you comment on something you don't even know?

 

[MastanKhan]

Not necessary. Why Bangladesh buy Chinese old Type Ming 035? It’s not the best compare to S-80 sub but becos it fits the budget of Bangladesh.

An many other countries like Sudan, Zambia , Congo will go for cheap weapon. PLAAF has make the weapon according to market need. And as some mention, gone are the days where China need to sell its best for hard cash. PLA has put restriction on what can be exported and what cannot. Like J-20 and Type99A2 tank which both are restricted for sale.

Hi,

You may justify your post any which manner you may want to---it is your choice---.

The bottom line is---in the USA there is no second quality production line---it is all one---.

You produce a product with your name stamped on it---then it is your choice---how you want it to reflect upon you---.

Your buyers will buy from you because they don't foresee any sanctions---.

@araz I don't feel angry at all. No need to blame each other between Pakistani members.
Like what @The SC said: the price of the item decides the quality we deliver(material, configuration). Like a car, you can have high or low configuration. It's flexible. We are honest with the specification and lifespan of the weapon we sell.
@MastanKhan some of the type 59 we sold to the south east counties in 1960 are still serving in their army.

Politically, we can't get in high end market of the west. The third world countries can't pay that much as we want. We struggled to live in the middle.

But now things change, as we get access to the Middle East market, even some counties in the Europe. The gate to high end market is open. The quality is improving and politically we are getting stronger.

As a previous PAF senior officer, he have my very much respect. But things changed a lot after he retired.

Let's agree to disagree. I won't really get mad at any Pakistani member when he has different idea. If my expression is too fierce and offending, I apologize to you guys. I don't take it personally.

Hi,

Living in the US---I have learnt to be grateful to those who have corrected my errors and mistakes---it has allowed me to get better---even though I still screw up bad.

The older gentleman is a general ranked retd officer---so---he is still privy to information---.

The T59 was the work horse---.

Not affordable to them will be more true.. and that is where china gets in..
Anyway, you are talking about what China should do, and I am talking about the realities on the ground.. so obviously we are not on the same wave of reasoning..

Cheers

Hi,

If you ever go to akistan---ask the farmers from the province of sindh---what did they do to protect their assets and families---and what outrageous prices did they pay to buy the AK47's in the 80's and 90's---.

 

[帅的一匹]

Hi,

You may justify your post any which manner you may want to---it is your choice---.

The bottom line is---in the USA there is no second quality production line---it is all one---.

You produce a product with your name stamped on it---then it is your choice---how you want it to reflect upon you---.

Your buyers will buy from you because they don't foresee any sanctions---.

Bhi, The M1A1/A2 USA sold to the Middle East countries performs badly. It's water-down version with the same outlook.

Politically, USA is superior as they are the boss of NATO. All of their friends or allies are developed or rich countries. It serve their purpose to develop high end or super expensive weapon system like F35.

Comparatively, our friends are not that rich as theirs. So you can't apply the same marketing strategy as USA applys.

You can't sell BMW level cars in market people only afford Toyota or VW.
We produce high end technology, but few of our customers can afford.
Unless we defeat USA in a war, then our weapons will be selling big.

at the same time, we earn 500 billions USD per year from USA's market, who will default it by launching a war just for selling some weapons?

I think Pakistan is aiming high. Those African warlords is more interested in low-Medium ends products.

 

[war&peace]

Hi,

Chinese weapons are not junk---. The only thing that the chinese industrial complex needs to do is to increase the QUALITY CONTROL.

When americans built weapons---they design it to be used for 50 years---.

If china follows the same footsteps---they will see a massive increase in quality and reliability---.

China must make only ONE QUALITY item---which is the BEST quality item---no number two and number three quality items.

American weapons are not only quality tested but what many people don't know is the quality of documentation is very high which makes it easier to use. However the downside is US weapons are sanction prone especially if you're not one of NATO allies or a Western countries or Israel.

Chinese are our friends but they still lag behind west in quality but i hope they will soon improve upon it.

 

[帅的一匹]

As USA turned down Saud's request for F35 due to political discrimination, China's chance is coming. @The SC

American weapons are not only quality tested but what many people don't know is the quality of documentation is very high which makes it easier to use. However the downside is US weapons are sanction prone especially if you're not one of NATO allies or a Western countries or Israel.

Chinese are our friends but they still lag behind west in quality but i hope they will soon improve upon it.

That's the part Pakistan comes in help and share with us, the high standard documentation.

How to design the interface of a fighter jet more human-oriented.
A lot work is ahead, can't get relaxed.

 

[war&peace]

That's the part Pakistan comes in and share with us, the high standard documentation.

That's in fact true, in most of Pakistani R&D organisation, there are quite a few very capable people who tenaciously document the product applying the latest techniques of CM.

 

[帅的一匹]

I think China shall provide funds for Pakistan to buy some high-end aviation products from French or England. Then we can have a chance to study it and feed it back to Pakistan at low cost.

 

[war&peace]

I think China shall provide funds for Pakistan to buy some high-end aviation products from French or England. Then we can have a chance to study it and feed it back to Pakistan at low cost.

I think the better idea is we use our brightest minds and invest in R&D, do JV with other friends and combine our brains and resources... the knowledge is available.. we can build upon that.

I think China shall provide funds for Pakistan to buy some high-end aviation products from French or England. Then we can have a chance to study it and feed it back to Pakistan at low cost.

USA may not sell F-35 to KSA so that opens a market for China because J-20 is the only other operational 5th A/C.

 

[帅的一匹]

I think the better idea is we use our brightest minds and invest in R&D, do JV with other friends and combine our brains and resources... the knowledge is available.. we can build upon that.


USA may not sell F-35 to KSA so that opens a market for China because J-20 is the only other operational 5th A/C.

Do you think both Pakistan and China refer to F16 when we develop JF17?

I think the better idea is we use our brightest minds and invest in R&D, do JV with other friends and combine our brains and resources... the knowledge is available.. we can build upon that.


USA may not sell F-35 to KSA so that opens a market for China because J-20 is the only other operational 5th A/C.

J20 is not for sale yet, cause we have huge demand on it by our own. But it's technology will definitely go to AZM. Plus other technology you can gain, you combine them to make it a great fighter jet.

 

[war&peace]

Do you think both Pakistan and China refer to F16 when we develop JF17?

I guess as much info as available publicly online was used as baseline to improve upon the design. But no breach of any contract was ever done since F-16s are under strict supervision.

 

[GumNaam]

@wanglaokan makes an excellent point. There is something to be said about making or purchasing a weapons platform that is so advanced yet so expensive that you are actually afraid of using it in combat lest it be shot down. Case in point would be none other than the american F22 itself. At $350 million a piece, the americans are afraid of actually deploying it in combat, they barely use it in Syria and that too is under a huge cover of very nonstealthy F15s, F16s and F18s lest the $350 million dollar white elephant gets shot out of the sky! Frankly, tight French took india for hay ride by selling them less than 40 rafaels for over $10 billion, that is over $250 million per aircraft that isn't even stealthy, carries a huge infrared signature thanks to two big engines and comes with absolutely no tech transfer. To @wanglaokan 's point, it is muchv more al effective a strategy to make moderately advanced aircrafts that ARE AFFORDABLE and can be MASS PRODUCED in intimidating numbers where the kids advanced of the enemy aircrafts would hesitate. Let's not forget that once upon a time, until the flight of the first MiG29, the best fighter the soviets had to send up against nato and usaf was the MiG21 which was albeit a challenge, was not as advanced as the F16s and the F15s and the tornadoes and the mirage 2000s of the time. And yet, it was affordable enough to make in large numbers while also being advanced enough to convince the americans, british, french and the west germans that they will not be able to achieve even an expensive victory against a large number of MiG21s and would be facing a turkey shoot where they would be a turkey.

Friends, I've been living in america since the 80s and clearly remember news programs like 60 minutes and whatnot where american generals were interviewed about the on going american/nato vs the soviet/warsaw pact confrontations and many of the american and british air force commanders unequivocally claimed that victory against the soviet block and remaining iron curtain was just not possible in the air primarily because of what I stated above and that it would have to turn into a "bloody slug match on the ground which is guaranteed to go nuclear", as one base nato commander put it. I don't remember who the commander was but I still remember the ominous words he uttered.