Where is Islam in Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

[Farooq]

Did Muawiya not want to be Caliph? And for this purpose, did he not wage war against Ali, the Caliph of the time? And after Ali, did Yazid not ask Husain for bayt? And when he denied Yazid this bayt, did Yazid not shed blood? Was Yazid not interested in being Caliph and having Husain's bayt as affirmation of a universal following amongst muslims?

I will not get into several other battles and disagreements associated with the earlier caliphate(s), because the above suffices.

I don't know if you're a Muslim, but at least show some respect by adding Radi Allah unho when writing the names of the Exalted Sahaba

 

[Martian]

People advocating Khilafat forget complexities of human society. A society is composed of many aspects larger than a mode of governance. People who subscribe to one narrative often overlook these complexities in their support to that view.

There is historical view: There was NEVER a peaceful transition of power in Muslim societies over past 14-15 centuries. Might is right is only principle observed.

There is cultural/linguist/racial/secretarian view as well. Turks were right in abolishing Caliphate. Role of cleregy was to demonise the moderanization of society. What was role of Arabs in Truks struggle for survival?

Do what is doable. Change muslim induviduals and muslim societies before dreaming a muslim government should be approach. Sloganeering will not work, actions will.

 

[Durrak]

Selected by whom?

Who determines the selectors?

There is a comity on that time too

 

[Myth_buster_1]

kahan ki baat ko kahan lay aey sir ... i strictly beleive in my religion to be my business why are you confusing it with the conversation here , my point was the second para .. with so many sects and bloody fueds btw sects a shariah or an islamic system cant be implemented!! now if you disagree please tell me what you have to say.

Dude i know u are a muslim and i think u need to reread my post and understand the context of it.
If you strictly believe in your religion their should be now excuse of not fallowing it all the way..
Beside wasting your time on useless stuff or arguing Islam is a failed system in terms of governance I suggest you to read books do some research or reread the Quran with translation and understand it.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I never stated that Jinnah's words were more important but as Pakistan is a nation founded by him, the governing structure should have been set up according to his judgement.

And you forgot to mention the day humans set foot on this planet HUMANS should have been going according to allah's Judgment which has been revealed in Quran? Or how about after (Prophet Mohammed PBUH) Muslims should be fallowing his footsteps and implement his judgment in their lifestyle?

Jinnah was not a flawless man and neither he was send by Allah and he is no one to decide the course of entire muslim population who demanded their own separate LAND! For god Sake PAkistan is not his personal property neither Pakistan should revolve around him!

Jinnah said what he thought, it was a truthful statement to a question that was asked of him.

You are confusing opinion and facts here. Anything said by humans (other then those appointed by allah) is an opinion NOT FACTS. And anything said by allah or his messengers is the FACT!

And no Pakistani has claimed Jinnah to be either flawless or a Saint.

You are certainly making him appear like a saint flawless.

You say as if all Muslims supported him, the Mullahs of India including many of the well known personalities opposed and cursed Pakistan. After all they did rightfully assume that it was not going to be an Islamic state but later they managed to hijack the nation and do just that.

Dude, listen... I dont care much what mullahs said, did, thought about Pakistan etc simply because a muslim cant always represent true Islam.

These Muslims you speak of hailed from various sects and were working for a national identity, not a religious one. After all acquiring a nation is acquiring an identity and you can remain a Muslim even in a country where others are in clear majority.

I think you need to study Islam once again. To any Muslim his/her identity is Islam and when Islam is the majority population it is obligatory to implement the rules law etc of Islam on that Nation.

Yes, I know these Hadiths but they are describing relations between Muslims and are not about nation-states and the role of religion within them.

There are many sects in Islam and many states with Muslim citizens, they all have to be together in spirit and a sense of unity through religion. It is not entirely possible to be united under one state that is being proscribed here.

Remember your point was "islam" is only personal practice? well i proved you wrong..

And oh also read this..

Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those of you in authority.” [TMQ An-Nisa: 59]

“Judge between them by that which Allah has revealed and follow not their desires
and beware of them lest they seduce you from some part of that which Allah has
revealed to you.” [TMQ Al-Ma’idah: 49]

“Whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are oppressors.”
[TMQ Al-Ma’idah: 45]

“But no, by your Lord, they can have no (real) faith until they make you judge in all disputes between them and find in their souls no resistance against your decisions,
but accept them with the fullest submission.” [TMQ 4:65]

He also says:

“Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those of you in authority.” [TMQ An-Nisa: 59]

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Muslims - who cannot even agree to how many children their own Prophet had - will not be agreeing to a single sharia anytime soon. Move on.

Thats a nice excuse sir not to fallow Islam.

I am sure pretty soon people will also find excuse not to pray.

I think the amount of time is wasted on arguing how flawed Islamic system has become it would be wise to actually make an attempt to identify those flaws.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I had such a severe headache from replying at least 70-80 comments and had to stop on page number 20... I am not gonna bother replying to every single comment from page 20-27 but just finished reading those pages and has really made me sick.. I could expect such comments from atheists non muslims but never expected from fellow Muslims. Dont act like disbelievers.


Media has done its job of destroying Islam's image by portraying jahil Mullahs talibans as Islam.


Here please educate yourself a bit more...


Ruling (al-hukm), reign (al-mulk) and authority (al-sultan) have the
same meaning which is the authority that executes the rules, or
it is the task of the leadership (al-imarah) which the Shar’a has
made an obligation on Muslims to establish. The task of al-imarah is to
avert injustice and to settle disputes that may arise. In other words the
ruling means the guardianship, as revealed by Allah . He  says:
“Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those of you in authority.” [TMQ An-Nisa: 59]
And He  also says:
“If they had only referred it to the Messenger and those among them with authority.”
[TMQ An-Nisa’: 83]
Therefore to rule is to actively look after the people’s affairs.
Since Islam is an ideology that covers the state, society and life as a
whole, the ruling becomes part of it, and the Muslims are commanded
to implement this ruling by establishing the state i.e. to govern by the
Islamic laws. A host of verses have been revealed in the Qur’an
confirming the obligation of ruling by what Allah  has revealed.
Allah  says:
“So judge between them by that which Allah has revealed and follow not their
desires away from the truth that has come to you.” [TMQ Al-Ma’idah: 48]
He  also says:
“Judge between them by that which Allah has revealed and follow not their desires
and beware of them lest they seduce you from some part of that which Allah has
revealed to you.” [TMQ Al-Ma’idah: 49]
Allah  says:
“Whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are disbelievers.”
[TMQ Al-Ma’idah: 44]
“Whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are oppressors.”
[TMQ Al-Ma’idah: 45]
“Whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are transgressors.”
[TMQ Al-Ma’idah: 47]
He  also says:
“But no, by your Lord, they can have no (real) faith until they make you judge in
all disputes between them and find in their souls no resistance against your decisions,
but accept them with the fullest submission.” [TMQ 4:65]

 

[LeGenD]

With all due respect, it was Jinnah that made Pakistan a reality to you and me, not Prophet (PBUH). His determination to create the state rested upon providing future safety and prosperity of the Muslim populace. Surely, he had some idea of how best to run things in the current day and age. After all, we were not 7th century Arabia, but rather 21st century subcontinent. Two very different worlds.

Spot on.

Allah said to go even to China for knowledge.

This is 100% wrong. The word China was never used by Allah or Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

Check this: Seek Knowledge as Far as China… Really? | MuslimMatters.org

 

[Myth_buster_1]

No, you used abusive terms for Musharraf, because you disagree with him. And then you tried to insult me, because you disagree with me.

Hmm. Do you see the pattern there?

Dude you are just being over sensitive.

You calling Islamic system flaw is that not an insult to all of us?

Remeber Islam is not just about praying when you want something in your life or celebrating Eids.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Spot on.

thats wrong...

Without Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) Islam would be almost no where and thus their would be no muslim movement in India for a separate nation Pakistan.

 

[NmHqh2JbVo]

Spot on.


This is 100% wrong. The word China was never used by Allah or Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

Check this: Seek Knowledge as Far as China… Really? | MuslimMatters.org

I guess the idea is to encourage to gain knowledge wherever that knowledge might reside, even that place is as FAR FAR away as China, or equally somewhere else.
This is what my impression is after I read at some site with some title like "one page guide of principles of Islam". It could be some interpretations of "what's the word, amam?" to make sure the people understand it, to make China as an example because China is far far away. I guess.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

What if some one is not Technically as brainy as u r, and need assitance to futher its message through a video clip, whats the harm in it, unless you dont want the truth to come out.

I dont think if their is any rules here in this forum which does not allows you to post videos in fact i cant think of any threads without any videos.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

People advocating Khilafat forget complexities of human society. A society is composed of many aspects larger than a mode of governance. People who subscribe to one narrative often overlook these complexities in their support to that view.

There is historical view: There was NEVER a peaceful transition of power in Muslim societies over past 14-15 centuries. Might is right is only principle observed.

There is cultural/linguist/racial/secretarian view as well. Turks were right in abolishing Caliphate. Role of cleregy was to demonise the moderanization of society. What was role of Arabs in Truks struggle for survival?

Do what is doable. Change muslim induviduals and muslim societies before dreaming a muslim government should be approach. Sloganeering will not work, actions will.

I fail to see the reason for your assumption that work is not being done on individuals/societies... We are doing what is doable sir... Dont forget that...

 

[Martian]

I fail to see the reason for your assumption that work is not being done on individuals/societies... We are doing what is doable sir... Dont forget that...

Can you list down some tangible actions of your organization that contributed to progess or development of muslim communities? Please dont include meetings, demos, publications....

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

assalam alaikum

hizb-alda3wa's man Noori almaliki ruled the last 5 years in iraq they killed (drilling of head is their innovation) and created a mess. Then didnot mention anything about caliphate. I m sure a learned man like u don't know about the " tuqiwa " among them.

Regards

TARIQ