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Where is Islam in Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

Aeon

assalam alaikum

If i remember turky till 90's was and under secularist parties was not doing good it is the islamist party of ordogan that made the change.

Brother who told u that we cant have good relations with non muslims and non muslim countries if we r practicing muslims or a country. The problem is within us that we didnot understand islam and its duties and our responsibilities

Regards

TARIQ
 
And what will make us stand on our feet? Sectarianism, ethnocentrism, feudalism, ... ? How much exactly have we looked towards the Chinese indeed, besides some military/defence cooperations?
Go read Koran with translation and comprehend whats in it.

It's not about them abandoning Islam. But rather them looking at us and seeing us as such ignorant, narrow-minded, dogmatic people.

If you have any faith left in youself you should not care what others think about you as long as you are going according to the laws permitted by allah. And since when being muslim equates to ignorant narrow minded dogmatic people? Have you got any shame left in you?
 
:disagree:
(Qaid used islam and muslims believed in it if he used anything then islam pakistan would not come to exists. he was a leader but his attraction was the name of islam otherwise no one would be intersted and when u say islam NO ONE AND NO ONE WILL BE ABOVE THE PROPHET (PBUH) AND WILL NEVER BE IN A COUNTRY OF HIS FOLLOWERS) Tariq

And the Prophet (PBUH) would say pray to God/Allah, and not to make an Idol out of me. In the end, doing what is best for the collective is what matters. And Jinnah was the person available at that time to do that.

Ignorance at its best.
Look where Israel and America is today. Then according to your analogy Pakistanis should become Christians and Jews to prosper.

Who said anything about converting to Christianity & Judaism??? Are you really that insecure??


I think you can figure it out...
 
What process did the founders and supporters of Pakistan utilize and support in leading the charge for the creation of Pakistan?

Did Mohammed Ali Jinnah not lead a political party, and an alliance of other political parties that supported the call for Pakistan, and participate in elections to determine the 'will of the people'?

Did Mohammed Ali Jinnah not continue the democratic process in Pakistan after its creation?

Were the Mullah Brigade and 'self proclaimed flag bearers of Islam' in fact not the ones opposing the demand for Pakistan through 1947?

And finally, if not democracy, what system of government would you have in Pakistan?

And please provide the details on how this system is to run, because without specifics the call for 'Islam instead of democracy in Pakistan' is a pointless rant.

Pakistan was created for the safety (and future prosperity) of *Muslims* in an otherwise overly Hindu dominated subcontinent -- not exactly *Islam* per se.

Its shameful that our own youth has abandoned the purpose of Pakistan.

The safety issue is just a worthless piece of rubbish , more muslims in india are living there than Pakistan , no one has gone through a full scale genocide.

Islam was the driving force for millions of those who migrated and lost everything in the way , its shameful and disrespectful to their souls when our own youth stands up and talks none sense.

Be my guest if you can challenge this one , btw none of our super secularist guns replied to this thread.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/84320-islam-about-life-jinnah.html

Take care.
 
Pakistan is not Mohammed Ali Jinnah's personal property. Neither he was a messenger of Allah whom we have to fallow at all cost. Pakistanis being "Muslims" should fallow the greatest man in history of man kind (Prophet Mohammed PBUH) orders.
Islamic laws should not be confused with jahil mullahs.

Pakistan is not the 'personal property' of anyone then, least of all Mullahs and Islamists, given that the man instrumental in the creation of Pakistan supported democracy and a system of government NOT based on religion.

And, again, please show me the details of an 'Islamic Government' as outlined in the Quran - since governance of a Muslim society is such a basic and essential subject, there is no way Allah would have left out details of the kind of governing system He preferred from HIS Word.
 
We can continue to have this nonsensical back and forth, or we can let reality take its course. If the people of Pakistan want to implement some form of sharia, they will. But until they do, Pakistan is not a Sharia-run state.

And as far as Sharia goes, there is no ONE interpretation of Islam. Iran and Saudi Arabia both claim to be Islamic states under Sharia. Afghanistan under the Taliban was another such example. The Ottoman Caliphate pretended to be under Sharia also. Yet, do you find that all four of these states/empires were governed the same way?

If there was ONE interpretation of Sharia Law, then there would be complete agreement on all practical and doctrinal matters between muslims, but the reality is that this is not the case. So, given that there are these disagreements even amongst muslims, how do you decide on who is right and who is wrong? One man's sahih hadith is another man's cooked-up propaganda published by corrupt caliphs in Baghdad. So unfortunately, the entire Islamic world is not united on the hadith. They are similarly not united on scholars either. What they are united on is the Quran, and the Quran, as I said, has interpretations.

By the way, if God wanted to forcibly impose an absolutely rigid law that governed every single aspect of life and that left absolutely nothing to judgement or the imagination, then I think he wouldn't have given us minds. There would be no point in blessing us with the one gift no other creature has been blessed with. We are human, we have the ability to think and make up our own minds, and there IS more than one way to salvation. I have read the Quran a few times and I believe the Quran itself says this when it talks about the people of the book (Christians, for example). This is my view. And I am a muslim. Now you may disagree with me, but then how do we decide? I may not buy into your idea of who is a scholar. I may not buy into your idea of Islamic jurisprudence. And you may disagree with my ideas of both. So, how do we impose a Sharia law on 180 million people when 180 million people do not subscribe to the same interpretations?

To address this issue of arbitration or decision making, ultimately the will of the people is included in some form or fashion. Whether you call that western style democracy, or simply "mushavrat" or whatever else, the fact is that at the end of the day it is the people who have to decide how they will be governed. And until and unless the people of Pakistan choose one particular mullah's interpretation of Islam over all the other mullahs, no one interpretation can be thought to be the law of the land.

La-ikraha-fiddin. Those too are the words of God. If you think Pakistan is not an Islamic republic because it is not being governed under Sharia law, then you are welcome to that conclusion. But you, nor I, nor anyone else can impose our concept of what *should be* on the people of Pakistan. Let them decide. And if they have thus far rejected the notions of sharia as espoused by the major religious parties, then that is the people's will.
 
If you have any faith left in youself you should not care what others think about you as long as you are going according to the laws permitted by allah.

I am content enough about my faith. But I will not use it to influence others. Or to tell them they will go to hell if they abandon such and such.

And since when being muslim equates to ignorant narrow minded dogmatic people? Have you got any shame left in you?

When people see us stating things like "someone will go to hell if he/she abandons Islam", then yes, there is a high probability they will think of us along those lines. Making statements like those is a very shameful act, indeed.
 
Aeon

assalam alaikum

If i remember turky till 90's was and under secularist parties was not doing good it is the islamist party of ordogan that made the change.

Brother who told u that we cant have good relations with non muslims and non muslim countries if we r practicing muslims or a country. The problem is within us that we didnot understand islam and its duties and our responsibilities

Regards

TARIQ

well said bro...

I was very far away from Islam few months ago.. Until i came across videos of converts on youtube (got addicted) who studied islam and become muslims ..... that inspired me alot to bring a change in myself and thats when i started reading koran with translation..... Now i wanna build my faith stronger and stronger.
All i can say is allah guided me and i am very thankful to it and very proud of it.
 
And for this system to work 97% of Pakistani Muslims must first read the Koran understand it and implement it in their lifes. Koran is the guidance.
As for Ruling. People (Pakistanis) need to bring change in their lives and only then this system can function.
If the above were to ever happen, then any system would function perfectly...
 
Its shameful that our own youth has abandoned the purpose of Pakistan.

The purpose of Pakistan was to prevent the "shuddhi" of muslims by what seemed to be an increasingly intolerant hindu leadership/movement.

Quaid-e-Azam agreed to the Cabinet Mission plan which in and of itself proves that he was willing to live in a United India where muslims were afforded protection and enough autonomy to where they would not be forced to comply with the hinduization of India.

Zia tried to reinvent history, but he succeeded in convincing only illiterate idiots. Everyone that has access to history books, a library and/or the internet and can look up, read and comprehend literature published in the early part of the 20th century is immune to this nonsense.
 
I am content enough about my faith. But I will not use it to influence others. Or to tell them they will go to hell if they abandon such and such.

When people see us stating things like "someone will go to hell if he/she abandons Islam", then yes, there is a high probability they will think of us along those lines. Making statements like those is a very shameful act, indeed.

Read Koran again with translation because you will find your answer.
And again i am least bothered about others what they may think if i am to practice islam.
 
If the above were to ever happen, then any system would function perfectly...

Well, like I said, I've read the Quran, but as per my understanding perhaps if the Prophet were alive today he would have done to 99% of the mosques in Pakistan what he did to the Masjid-e-Zarrar. Most of them are associated with sects and hence encouraging firqawariat, others are outright dens of fitna parasti, yet others are allowing people (i.e. the qaabiz mullahs) to transform religion into a source of income and still others are instruments of an illegitimate qabza on government property.

May Allah save us all from such mosques!

Net-net, religion is personal. It cannot be forced down the throat of a collective of 180 million people. If ever a majority of Pakistanis can agree on a particular version of the Sharia and choose to vote that in as the constitution of Pakistan, well and good. Until then, the energy wasted in these lamentations is better used cleaning up your street, volunteering at a local school, helping fund a scholarship for a low-income child or simply trying to excel at whatever you do for the sake of the country.
 
The purpose of Pakistan was to prevent the "shuddhi" of muslims by what seemed to be an increasingly intolerant hindu leadership/movement.

Quaid-e-Azam agreed to the Cabinet Mission plan which in of itself proves that he was willing to live in a United India where the muslims were given protection and enough autonomy to where they would not be forced to comply with the hinduization of India.

Zia tried to reinvent history, but he succeeded in convincing only illiterate idiots. Everyone that has access to history books, a library and/or the internet and can look up, read and comprehend literature published in the early part of the 20th century is immune from this nonsense.

Quaid e Azam.. Oh my.
Seriously, Pakistanis need to bring Prophet Mohammed in their heart more then a person who was not send by God.
Why was Pakistan created then if it was not for the muslims. I am sure hardly any non muslim supported Jinnah for separation from India. Without muslims+islam no one would have thought of Pakistan.

PS: If Islam did not allow us to give hidayat to fellow muslims then i would be least bothered about this topic.
 
I always wonder how much Pakistan is at the ransom of Islamic bigots.
Incurring sample from this thread, i can say the situation is not that bad but heaps needs to be done.
 
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