Where is INS Vikramaditya?

[khansaheeb]

Aircraft carrier are expensive toys to beat far overseas small nations. Not for convetional war between power of 2 same level rival.

Heading for Bangladesh ?

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

@Rashid Mahmood

any significance of this, even though Indian Navy statement of deployment is declaring different status ....???

Indians are master liars, and we have seen that happening over the past so many years.
They lie about everything.

However, we have access to live satellite imagery and we can monitor all their naval activities in real time.
Also we have human intel which reports times for ships leaving harbour.

If we can find 2 submarines in international waters, a CBG surely cannot hide.

 

[Dazzler]

Indians are master liars, and we have seen that happening over the past so many years.
They lie about everything.

However, we have access to live satellite imagery and we can monitor all their naval activities in real time.
Also we have human intel which reports times for ships leaving harbour.

If we can find 2 submarines in international waters, a CBG surely cannot hide.

I assume that the morale at PN is quite high, especially after busting TWO subs.

Indians are master liars, and we have seen that happening over the past so many years.
They lie about everything.

However, we have access to live satellite imagery and we can monitor all their naval activities in real time.
Also we have human intel which reports times for ships leaving harbour.

If we can find 2 submarines in international waters, a CBG surely cannot hide.

The second sub was Arihant right?

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

I assume that the morale at PN is quite high, especially after busting TWO subs.



The second sub was Arihant right?

Yes &
maybe....

 

[SQ8]

Its a CBG, it requires a lot of planning and resources to get moving and its fairly easy to track especially with the assets PN has at its disposal.

As such, the Vikramditya is sticking to port after making a small venture. This is likely due to actual wartime air ops not being rehearsed or planned thoroughly.
The IN did not expect this election stunt to go beyond whatever the Balakot dilemma was and so the tempo is taking long and difficult to put into practice.

There were rumors of them attempting to launch piecemeal strikes from the south with Mig-29Ks but both limited loads, PAF interceptions and threat of our maritime assets forced them to shelve that idea.

 

[blueazure]

where ever it is, its being constantly watched by our space assets ,

relax

 

[Sine Nomine]

Its a CBG, it requires a lot of planning and resources to get moving and its fairly easy to track especially with the assets PN has at its disposal.

As such, the Vikramditya is sticking to port after making a small venture. This is likely due to actual wartime air ops not being rehearsed or planned thoroughly.
The IN did not expect this election stunt to go beyond whatever the Balakot dilemma was and so the tempo is taking long and difficult to put into practice.

There were rumors of them attempting to launch piecemeal strikes from the south with Mig-29Ks but both limited loads, PAF interceptions and threat of our maritime assets forced them to shelve that idea.

Any chances of it's uses in naval blockade?

 

[HRK]

Indians are master liars, and we have seen that happening over the past so many years.
They lie about everything.

However, we have access to live satellite imagery and we can monitor all their naval activities in real time.
Also we have human intel which reports times for ships leaving harbour.

If we can find 2 submarines in international waters, a CBG surely cannot hide.

Should we consider it as a sign of cooling things down as their Carrier is in the Harbour ...??

though the statement of IN is different

 

[crankthatskunk]

The almost permanent location of the ship is near Karnataka state.
The Dock coordinates are 14.769879,74.142269.
This place already counts as North Arabian sea.
If the ship has moved at all, I don't think it has moved much far from home port
Can somebody check Google earth for map dates as the ship is still showing in the same location .

I checked it in my pockets, couldn't find it. Any easier way!!!
I ideally wants it to be in my pockets, or at least in Pakistan's pocket. You know what I mean.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Should we consider it as a sign of cooling things down as their Carrier is in the Harbour ...??

though the statement of IN is different

Things can never cool down between us.
If they get a chance to avenge their humiliating defeat, they will.

 

[Shabi1]

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/ami...d-nuclear-submarines-aircraft-carrier-2009010

Was deployed but it's back in port.

Reason.
Since escalations, PN has deployed it's assets as well and our subs are in deep sea.

 

[ziaulislam]

It would be suitable to remove that from your narrative, 1947, the first action of an independent state of Pakistan was aggression against India.
1965 was again unilateral agression against India; post 71, in a year India already demonstrated it's nuclear power, but took no action against the remnant of Pakistan post war, although Pakistani forces were decimated. So the Idea, India doesn't wants pakistan to exist never has or will hold true.


That again is due to your poor sense of history, tactically Kargil was similar to Operation Gibraltor of 65; in 34 years of planning, PA managed to modify it's tactics to "Janab Sardi mein chad jaate hain".


That is awesome, belief is a good thing, but when promulgated from PA, it lends itself to "1 mussalman greater than 10 hindus"; "Security of east lies in the west" and "Bleed India by 1000 cuts".These grand belief despite what your establishment would like for you to believe doesn't pan out the way they envision it.


Cool, read some of the views of "People from Pakistan"


Air Chief Marshal: Asghar Khan
Air Chief Marshal: Nur Khan
Brig (Retd) Saeed Ismat
Major (Retd.) Agha Humayun Amin
Col. S.G Mehd (SSG Commander)

(Combined military and service credentials that dwarfs pretty much every voice here)


What do you have to say about 1965 war?




If you were to ask me this question when I was a young officer, my reply would have been quite different because I fought in that war, saw tactical action and in my perception we did well and beat back the aggressor and won the war. As one matures, learns and has the ability to analyze, one begins to differentiate between myth and reality, of course, with the advantage of the hindsight. 1965 War manifested the shortsightedness and immaturity of our political and military leadership. Pakistan started with ‘Operation Gibraltar’ in Kashmir. We have been made to think it was very bold and imaginative in conception and prepared by a great General. In my opinion it was bold, unimaginative, unpracticable plan. It was not in harmony with prevailing environment in Indian Held Kashmir. It was based on dangerous assumptions and its time frame was unrealistic and quixotic. The plan reflected strategic naivety and immaturity. To top it all the preparation and subsequently the execution displayed lack of professionalism. Since it lacked politico-strategic framework and vision it placed Pakistan in a very precarious position. On its failure, ‘Operation Grandslam’ was launched, which did make military sense since it enjoyed the superiority of strategic orientation. The capture of objective (Akhnur Bridges) would sever the Indian lines of communication in Kashmir and force them to retract. This operation was to suffer a major setback when the advance was halted because of an explainable change of command in the middle of the battle. Indians were so threatened by this move that they attacked with full might across the international border threatening Lahore and Sialkot. Our leaders panicked, ‘Operation Grandslam’ was brought to a grinding halt. Later, a brilliantly conceived Riposte from Khem Karan failed because a correct mix of units was not mustered to achieve a superior relative strength situation at the right time at the right place. We won a lot of battles but lost the war as we failed to attain the political aim of defreezing and the ultimate liberation of the Kashmir. Ayub Khan thus ruined the national economy by one wrong decision that had taken him several years to build.

Brig (Retd) Saeed Ismat, SJ

Cover Story

This in short is Nur Khan’s version of 1965 war, which he calls an unnecessary war and says that President Ayub for whom he has the greatest regard should have held his senior generals accountable for the debacle and himself resigned.

This would have held the hands of the adventurers who followed Gen Ayub. Since the 1965 war was based on a big lie and was presented to the nation a great victory, the Army came to believe its own fiction and has used since, Ayub as its role model and therefore has continued to fight unwanted wars — the 1971 war and the Kargil fiasco in 1999, he said.

In each of the subsequent wars we have committed the same mistakes that we committed in 1965.

Air Marshal Khan demanded that a truth commission formed to find out why we failed in all our military adventures. It is not punishment of the failed leadership that should be the aim of the commission but sifting of facts from fiction and laying bare the follies and foibles of the irresponsible leaders in matters with grave implications for the nation. It should also point out the irregularities committed in training and promotions in the defence forces in the past so that it is not repeated in future

Nur Khan reminisces ’65 war - Newspaper - DAWN.COM

Excerpt From the conclusion:


Major (Retd.) Agha Humayun Amin:


Ambition, lust for glory etc are perfectly reasonable aspirations where they are matched with military talent pertaining to operational strategy, low intensity operations, strategic insight or statesmanship! All these were sadly lacking at all levels, except unit level bravery and enthusiasm! Gibraltar failed because of pure and unadulterated military incompetence and Akhtar Malik bears the principle responsibility for Gibraltar! The Grand Slam story was different!It wasnot a case ofbalanced distribution of lack of talent at all levels that resulted in the failure of Grand Slam! The principle reason why Grand Slam failed was delay in initial launching and change of command!

Grand Slam - A Battle of Lost Opportunities

this is your Air Chief Marshal Asghar Khan.

Some of Col. S.G Mehdi wisdom.

Conclusion by SSG’s commander: “Had our Government initiated a probe into concept, conduct and consequences of 1965 War’, and raised the curtain from the acts of gross omission or that of the criminal commission, the ignominy of 1971 could have been avoided. “




1965 War — Some Harsh Realities | Ehtisham Siddiqui



now before we wan't to diss Nur Khan and alike, just be aware that ACM Nur Khan is pretty much the template for a Hero, Took the Fight to Indians, Fought Israelis in 6 day war, Program director of F86 Sabre's, Diffused a Plane Hijacking single-handedly, built the frame work for PIA, Transformed Hockey, Squash and Cricket in pakistan. Pretty much a statesman of no comparison in contemporary Pakistan. I would pay heed to his words,

So you are conveniently going to forget junagrah and daccen state...the one that Patel wanted to exchange for Kashmir ????

 

[Legio XI The Ironclads]

where ever it is, its being constantly watched by our space assets ,

relax

Our space assets don't have a footprint large enough to cover the Indian Ocean. We rely on Chinese Ocean recon Sats for this information. Pak Naval intelligence directly relies upon, spies (Humint) in ports, Humint in Indian Navy, Fishing vessels in International Waters and International Shipping in shipping lanes. This is why we hear reports such as Indian has captured 30 Pakistani fisherman and held them and vice versa we do the same in peace time too. ISI has plenty of foreign flagged Merchant Men on their pay roll to report Indian naval activity in the Indian Ocean. One Satphone call from the bridge of cargo ship to Karachi is the best, cheapest and most effective real time intelligenge tool available to Pak Navy.

Our space Techincal means are focussed on India Pak border area to spot large scale troop movements and staging areas. We don't have the means to build or deploy Ocean Recon Sats, they require a whole new level of Technology, spotting an individual ship in the Open Ocean is incredibly difficult and very expensive. In an ideal world we would have the resources to do this, but in reality PNS are comfortable they will get the info from the Chinese if a crisis comes.

 

[Safriz]

Our space assets don't have a footprint large enough to cover the Indian Ocean. We rely on Chinese Ocean recon Sats for this information. Pak Naval intelligence directly relies upon, spies (Humint) in ports, Humint in Indian Navy, Fishing vessels in International Waters and International Shipping in shipping lanes. This is why we hear reports such as Indian has captured 30 Pakistani fisherman and held them and vice versa we do the same in peace time too. ISI has plenty of foreign flagged Merchant Men on their pay roll to report Indian naval activity in the Indian Ocean. One Satphone call from the bridge of cargo ship to Karachi is the best, cheapest and most effective real time intelligenge tool available to Pak Navy.

Our space Techincal means are focussed on India Pak border area to spot large scale troop movements and staging areas. We don't have the means to build or deploy Ocean Recon Sats, they require a whole new level of Technology, spotting an individual ship in the Open Ocean is incredibly difficult and very expensive. In an ideal world we would have the resources to do this, but in reality PNS are comfortable they will get the info from the Chinese if a crisis comes.

High resolution pics of any part of earth can be bought from commercial satellite companies Costs about 300$

 

[Legio XI The Ironclads]

High resolution pics of any part of earth can be bought from commercial satellite companies Costs about 300$

Commercial satellites due not offer wake tracking or radar which is essential to find a CBG at sea. They just give you a snapshot every few hours of a defined area. Zero use to track and target a CBG. How are you going to plan an air or naval intercept, when firstly you have to wait for an image, then find the relevant target through analysis. By which time said target could have changed position, course and speed multiple times. Commercial Sat's are useful, but not what a military recon sat can do. You need a specific kind of capabillity, this is called RORSAT, radar waves pinged onto ocean surface to positively find targets, commercial satellites don't do this This is why the Russians, US and China spend Billions on such technology.