When the majority chooses not to resist and stay silent..

[Chogy]

After being called an extremist, I can't comment on the state of faked Chinese consumer goods?

 

[siegecrossbow]

After being called an extremist, I can't comment on the state of faked Chinese consumer goods?

All I am saying is that you could try and be more "diplomatic" in your arguments. A lot of people who may otherwise agree with some of your points may be offended by comments like that. Also, it will help prove the point that you are not an "extremist" if you keep your tone civil.

Cardsharp please remember what I told you in the PM! It is ok to have disagreements but don't get too worked up over internet arguments. Personal attacks are not ok.

 

[justanobserver]

^^
Exactly

What irked me was (is) your stance, that religious people are somehow morally better then atheists.

Granted some missionaries have done excellent work , every Indian knows about Mother Teresa !

 

[Chogy]

I apologize if I offended anybody. I doubt there will be an apology for labeling these people as selfish, part of an agenda, a cog in giant machine with dubious intentions, and for me being labeled an "extremist."

I attempted to limit my statements to the personal, direct observation of good works in poor countries by people of faith. I can't pretend that what I've seen and experienced in this admittedly narrow phenomenon never happens. It does; it is ongoing and continuous.

 

[CardSharp]

I apologize if I offended anybody. I doubt there will be an apology for labeling these people as selfish, part of an agenda, a cog in giant machine with dubious intentions, and for me being labeled an "extremist."

I attempted to limit my statements to the personal, direct observation of good works in poor countries by people of faith. I can't pretend that what I've seen and experienced in this admittedly narrow phenomenon never happens. It does; it is ongoing and continuous.

You don't offend or perturb me.

 

[CardSharp]

^^
Exactly

What irked me was (is) your stance, that religious people are somehow morally better then atheists.

Granted some missionaries have done excellent work , every Indian knows about Mother Teresa !

Do you think that the missionary influence has become a net good in history after some handouts in third world countries?

and as for Mother Teresa I'd suggest you read some of Christopher Hitchens' arguments in his book and watch Penn and Teller

 

[Chogy]

I'd rather not turn this into an atheist vs theist debate. The answer to your question is difficult (if not impossible) to answer, because it delves into the spiritual. Since we don't know factually what happens after death, then conversion, non-conversion, atheism, and faith, are open to interpretation and belief. You believe we turn into calcium compounds and nitrogen fertilizer after death; I believe in something different.

I will say this - horrors have happened based upon faith. Horrors have also happened based upon sociological constructs that have nothing to do with religion, beyond a State-sanctioned rejection. Specific religious episodes (like witch burnings, suppressions, Jihads, Crusades) make for easy chapters in school books. But how do you quantify hot meals, houses built, orphans and widows cared for, fighting halted, by those of faith? Can you imagine a chapter in a high school history text on European history circa 1500 A.D. titled "Beneficial and Altruistic acts of the Church"? Not going to happen.

Obviously by now you know I am Protestant Christian. You might be surprised that I believe Church and State MUST be divided if the term freedom is to mean anything. I would be AGAINST laws mandating formalized prayer in public schools. I would be FOR teaching evolution.

and as for Mother Teresa I'd suggest you read some of Christopher Hitchens' arguments in his book and watch Penn and Teller

I never mentioned Mother Teresa, but given a choice between her and Hitchens or Penn and Teller as regards overall benefit to society, I'd vote for Mother Teresa.

As I said, I was an atheist for 25+ years, with a degree in Chemistry and a minor in Physics. IOW, I have a scientific background. I understand, in general, the atheist mindset, and I've heard all of the arguments for and against for decades. I'm not a mindless robot.

And I'm certainly not an extremist. I am a human with opinions, like you.