When Muslim, Sikh and Hindu soldiers fought together (WWII)

[paritosh]

Muslim, Sikh and Hindu soldiers still fight together in defence of Pakistan!

eh?
did you mean 'on defence.pk'?

 

[waraich66]

Muslim, Sikh and Hindu soldiers still fight together in defence of Pakistan!

Yes, Sikh and Hindu are serving now PA. Are we moving towards reunification

 

[waraich66]

eh?
did you mean 'on defence.pk'?

No in Pakistan Armed Forces

 

[EjazR]

Hindu and Sikh Pakistanis make less than 2% of Pakistan's population and Muslim Indians make only 13.5% of India's population. The vast majority of Pakistanis are Muslims and the vast majority of Indians are Hindus.

Thats' true agreed, but I was replying to the statement muslims (Pakistanis) are enemies of Indians. And sorry you or Coolyo don't speak for all muslims of the world.
You may say Pakistanis are enemies of Indians or Coolyo can personally say that he is enemy of Indians. But be conscious of the fact that you have just declared 160 million Indian muslims your enemies as well.

I've noticed in this forum, you're always trying to bring Pakistanis and Indians as one, give it up dude the last thing we Pakistanis want to be is Indians.

Take your Akhand Bharat garbage somewhere else.

I have never said Pakistanis should join India or become Indians. I have repeatedly said that Pakistan is a reality. Instead of dismissing my post as garbage, can you point out anything that I said wrong?
An Akhand Bharat is the LAST thing I would want. It is impossible it can never happen espicially after the past 60 odd years.
You don't have to be so insecure. I am only for good relations between the countries because after all we are neighbors and the abject poverty that affects south asia should be the biggest enemy of all SAARC countries.


What I really want is change the attitude that India Vs Pakistan = Islam Vs Hinduism. India Vs Pakistan is India Vs Pakistan, and thats' it.

The Two nation theory is now called The Ideology of Pakistan.
SO RESPECT OUR IDEOLOGY!

Yes I know it is the Ideology of Pakistan. I admit that it plays an important role in Pakistan political thought. But I don't have to agree with it. Particularly because it was first propounded by Savarkar ( a hindu extremist) and supported by VHP/Bajrang Dal type groups in India. As a muslim, I personally could never agree with them.

Muslim, Sikh and Hindu soldiers still fight together in defence of Pakistan!

Thats true, and Hindu Sikh and Muslim soldiers fight together in defence of India as well. Thanks for proving my point that India Vs Pakistan is not Islam Vs Hinduism but just India Vs Pakistan. I hope Coolyo and Omar can see my point now.

 

[Omar1984]

Thats' true agreed, but I was replying to the statement muslims (Pakistanis) are enemies of Indians. And sorry you or Coolyo don't speak for all muslims of the world.
You may say Pakistanis are enemies of Indians or Coolyo can personally say that he is enemy of Indians. But be conscious of the fact that you have just declared 160 million Indian muslims your enemies as well.

Check out the history of Pakistan and India in these past 62 years. And quit always talking about "Muslims" of India. Theres more than 900 million Hindus in India, accept that.

I have never said Pakistanis should join India or become Indians. I have repeatedly said that Pakistan is a reality. Instead of dismissing my post as garbage, can you point out anything that I said wrong?
An Akhand Bharat is the LAST thing I would want. It is impossible it can never happen espicially after the past 60 odd years.
You don't have to be so insecure. I am only for good relations between the countries because after all we are neighbors and the abject poverty that affects south asia should be the biggest enemy of all SAARC countries.

I dont think Pakistan should have anything to do with Hindu majority India.

What I really want is change the attitude that India Vs Pakistan = Islam Vs Hinduism. India Vs Pakistan is India Vs Pakistan, and thats' it.

Pakistan has a total population of 176 million people. More than 167 million are Muslims.

India has a population of 1.1 billion. More than 900 million are Hindus.

You seem to have a hard time accepting the fact that Pakistan is Muslim majority and India is Hindu majority. Muslims follow Islam and Hindus follow Hinduism.

Yes I know it is the Ideology of Pakistan. I admit that it plays an important role in Pakistan political thought. But I don't have to agree with it. Particularly because it was first propounded by Savarkar ( a hindu extremist) and supported by VHP/Bajrang Dal type groups in India. As a muslim, I personally could never agree with them.

The ideology of Pakistan took shape through an evolutionary process, based on historical experience. Muslim Modernist and reformer Sir Syed Ahmad Khan (1817-1898) began the period of South Asian Muslim self-awakening and identity; Poet Philosopher Allama Muhammad Iqbal (1877-1938), (the poet of East), provided the philosophical explanation; and Barrister Muhammad Ali Jinnah (1871-1948) translated it into the political reality of a nation state. The All-India Muslim League, in attempting to represent Indian Muslims, felt that the Muslims of the subcontinent were a distinct and separate nation from the Hindus. At first they demanded separate electorates, but when they came to the conclusion that Muslims would not be safe in a Hindu-dominated India, they began to demand a separate state. The League demanded self-determination for Muslim-majority areas in the form of a sovereign state promising minorities equal rights and safeguards in these Muslim majority areas.

The evidence cited for the differences dates to the beginning of the eleventh century, when the scholar Al-Biruni (973-1048) observed that Hindus and Muslims differed in all matters and habits. Allama Iqbal's presidential address to the Muslim League on December 29, 1930 is seen as the first introduction of the two-nation theory in support of what would ultimately become Pakistan. Ten years later, Jinnah made a speech in Lahore on March 22, 1940 which was very similar to Al-Biruni's thesis in theme and tone. Jinnah stated that Hindus and Muslims belonged to two different religious philosophies, with different social customs and literature, with no intermarriage and based on conflicting ideas and concepts. Their outlook on life and of life was different and despite 1,000 years of history, the relations between the Hindus and Muslims could not attain the level of cordiality. The only difference between the writing of Al-Biruni and the speech of Jinnah was that Al-Biruni made calculated predictions, while Jinnah had history behind him to support his argument.

Support
Some right wing Hindu leaders such as Vinayak Damodar Savarkar endorsed the Two-Nation Theory. However, Savarkar, the leader of the Hindu Mahasabha, believed that the new nation state of Pakistan should be formed somewhere in the Middle East as opposed to being in the lands in which the Vedic religion was founded and in which Hinduism thrived until the Islamic invasion.

In an Op-Ed piece in the Pakistan Times, Samina Mallah asserts that the Two-Nation Theory is relevant to this day[1], citing factors such as lower literacy and education levels amongst Indian Muslims as compared to Indian Hindus, long-standing cultural differences, and outbreaks of religious violence such as those occurring during the 2002 Gujarat Riots in India; as well as the two nation-states of Bangladesh and Pakistan as the reality of the Two Nation Theory, although no longer part of each other yet separate from Republic of India.

Two-Nation Theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Al-Biruni was the first to observe that Hindus and Muslims differed in all matters and habits and he was MUSLIM. A separate nation for Muslims was first proposed by Allama Iqbal, also a MUSLIM.

 

[glomex]

Check out the history of Pakistan and India in these past 62 years. And quit always talking about "Muslims" of India. Theres more than 900 million Hindus in India, accept that.



I dont think Pakistan should have anything to do with Hindu majority India.



Pakistan has a total population of 176 million people. More than 167 million are Muslims.

India has a population of 1.1 billion. More than 900 million are Hindus.

You seem to have a hard time accepting the fact that Pakistan is Muslim majority and India is Hindu majority. Muslims follow Islam and Hindus follow Hinduism.




.

Meaning less ....



Yes there are more Hindus in India......its not history ..its a fact....



Sure Pakistan has nothing to do with India....its a Separate country...and shares a border with India....and thats where the commonality ends.....


Yes there are more than 900 Million Hindus In India.....and there are more than 170 Million Muslims in India thats also a fact....

Well Pakistan is a Muslim Country .....The whole world knows that...

 

[EjazR]

You may disagree but from Allama Iqbal's speeches, you cannot say for sure that he was propounding an independent nation as he never explicitly stated that. He wanted a muslim majority federal state with more powers vested in the provinces than the centre - something like the US system.


Quoting directly from his last public speech in Lahore he said:

[[7e]] I have no doubt that if a Federal Government is established, Muslim federal States will willingly agree, for purposes of India's defence, to the creation of neutral Indian military and naval forces. Such a neutral military force for the defence of India was a reality in the days of Mughal rule. Indeed in the time of Akbar the Indian frontier was, on the whole, defended by armies officered by Hindu generals. I am perfectly sure that the scheme for a neutral Indian army, based on a federated India, will intensify Muslim patriotic feeling, and finally set at rest the suspicion, if any, of Indian Muslims joining Muslims from beyond the frontier in the event of an invasion.
Presidential Address, annual session of the All-India Muslim League, Allahabad, December 1930, by Sir Muhammad Iqbal

That is why he is revered in India as much as he is revered in Pakistan. His Tarana-e-Hind is a national song and the music for this song is what the army marches to on Republic day parade.
Also please note that when he said Indian Muslims he actually included muslims of the present day Pakistan as well.

So yes the two nation theory was propounded by Sarvarkar first, not Allama Iqbal. The actual words two nation theory was used by Sarvarkar first. You cannot change this historical fact.

Besides, Asim Aquil has already proven my point about the irrelevance of religious connotations when you talk about India Vs Pakistan. That is all I am saying. Pakistan is a reality and there is no use denying its existence. Maybe its about time that Pakistan becomes Iqbal ka Pakistan as envisoned by him in his last speech quoted here.

 

[Omar1984]

Meaning less ....
Yes there are more than 900 Million Hindus In India.....and there are more than 170 Million Muslims in India thats also a fact....

WRONG!

Country, Population, % Muslim, Total number of Muslims

India 1,166,079,217 13.4% 156,254,615



Pakistan 176,242,949 95% - 97% 164,741,924

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

 

[glomex]

WRONG!

Country, Population, % Muslim, Total number of Muslims
India 1,166,079,217 13.4% 156,254,615

Pakistan 176,242,949 95% - 97% 164,741,924

Islam by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ok.. Thanks for correcting me....



Whats your Point?

 

[arihant]

WRONG!

Country, Population, % Muslim, Total number of Muslims
India 1,166,079,217 13.4% 156,254,615
Pakistan 176,242,949 95% - 97% 164,741,924

Islam by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You need to see that it was either 2005 or 2007. It has certainly increased.

 

[waraich66]

Check out the history of Pakistan and India in these past 62 years. And quit always talking about "Muslims" of India. Theres more than 900 million Hindus in India, accept that.



I dont think Pakistan should have anything to do with Hindu majority India.



Pakistan has a total population of 176 million people. More than 167 million are Muslims.

India has a population of 1.1 billion. More than 900 million are Hindus.

You seem to have a hard time accepting the fact that Pakistan is Muslim majority and India is Hindu majority. Muslims follow Islam and Hindus follow Hinduism.




The ideology of Pakistan took shape through an evolutionary process, based on historical experience. Muslim Modernist and reformer Sir Syed Ahmad Khan (1817-1898) began the period of South Asian Muslim self-awakening and identity; Poet Philosopher Allama Muhammad Iqbal (1877-1938), (the poet of East), provided the philosophical explanation; and Barrister Muhammad Ali Jinnah (1871-1948) translated it into the political reality of a nation state. The All-India Muslim League, in attempting to represent Indian Muslims, felt that the Muslims of the subcontinent were a distinct and separate nation from the Hindus. At first they demanded separate electorates, but when they came to the conclusion that Muslims would not be safe in a Hindu-dominated India, they began to demand a separate state. The League demanded self-determination for Muslim-majority areas in the form of a sovereign state promising minorities equal rights and safeguards in these Muslim majority areas.

The evidence cited for the differences dates to the beginning of the eleventh century, when the scholar Al-Biruni (973-1048) observed that Hindus and Muslims differed in all matters and habits. Allama Iqbal's presidential address to the Muslim League on December 29, 1930 is seen as the first introduction of the two-nation theory in support of what would ultimately become Pakistan. Ten years later, Jinnah made a speech in Lahore on March 22, 1940 which was very similar to Al-Biruni's thesis in theme and tone. Jinnah stated that Hindus and Muslims belonged to two different religious philosophies, with different social customs and literature, with no intermarriage and based on conflicting ideas and concepts. Their outlook on life and of life was different and despite 1,000 years of history, the relations between the Hindus and Muslims could not attain the level of cordiality. The only difference between the writing of Al-Biruni and the speech of Jinnah was that Al-Biruni made calculated predictions, while Jinnah had history behind him to support his argument.

Support
Some right wing Hindu leaders such as Vinayak Damodar Savarkar endorsed the Two-Nation Theory. However, Savarkar, the leader of the Hindu Mahasabha, believed that the new nation state of Pakistan should be formed somewhere in the Middle East as opposed to being in the lands in which the Vedic religion was founded and in which Hinduism thrived until the Islamic invasion.

In an Op-Ed piece in the Pakistan Times, Samina Mallah asserts that the Two-Nation Theory is relevant to this day[1], citing factors such as lower literacy and education levels amongst Indian Muslims as compared to Indian Hindus, long-standing cultural differences, and outbreaks of religious violence such as those occurring during the 2002 Gujarat Riots in India; as well as the two nation-states of Bangladesh and Pakistan as the reality of the Two Nation Theory, although no longer part of each other yet separate from Republic of India.

Two-Nation Theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Al-Biruni was the first to observe that Hindus and Muslims differed in all matters and habits and he was MUSLIM. A separate nation for Muslims was first proposed by Allama Iqbal, also a MUSLIM.

500 Million Muslims of indian sub continenent is a big power ,Britishers and Hindu leaders were afraid of this power , may be that is reason they adopted divide and rule methodology, formula developed for seperation was in favour of India , hydrabad and Kashmir taken by force and East pakistan was 1000 miles away from West Pakistan.

I think Indian sub continent should remain united but muslim populated states or provinces should have been given autonomy.Allama Iqbal also had given similar idea.

Now muslims remain in India are facing lot of problems due to division and bangalees will always remain under threat of India.

 

[Omar1984]

You may disagree but from Allama Iqbal's speeches, you cannot say for sure that he was propounding an independent nation as he never explicitly stated that. He wanted a muslim majority federal state with more powers vested in the provinces than the centre - something like the US system.


Quoting directly from his last public speech in Lahore he said:


That is why he is revered in India as much as he is revered in Pakistan. His Tarana-e-Hind is a national song and the music for this song is what the army marches to on Republic day parade.
Also please note that when he said Indian Muslims he actually included muslims of the present day Pakistan as well.

So yes the two nation theory was propounded by Sarvarkar first, not Allama Iqbal. The actual words two nation theory was used by Sarvarkar first. You cannot change this historical fact.

Besides, Asim Aquil has already proven my point about the irrelevance of religious connotations when you talk about India Vs Pakistan. That is all I am saying. Pakistan is a reality and there is no use denying its existence. Maybe its about time that Pakistan becomes Iqbal ka Pakistan as envisoned by him in his last speech quoted here.

WRONG! Allama Iqbal said the following:

In his presidential address on December 29, 1930, Iqbal outlined a vision of an independent state for Muslim-majority provinces in northwestern India:

"I would like to see the Punjab, North-West Frontier Province, Sind and Baluchistan amalgamated into a single state. Self-government within the British Empire, or without the British Empire, the formation of a consolidated Northwest Indian Muslim state appears to me to be the final destiny of the Muslims, at least of Northwest India."

In his speech, Iqbal emphasised that unlike Christianity, Islam came with "legal concepts" with "civic significance," with its "religious ideals" considered as inseparable from social order: "therefore, the construction of a policy on national lines, if it means a displacement of the Islamic principle of solidarity, is simply unthinkable to a Muslim."[10] Iqbal thus stressed not only the need for the political unity of Muslim communities, but the undesirability of blending the Muslim population into a wider society not based on Islamic principles. He thus became the first politician to articulate what would become known as the Two-Nation Theory — that Muslims are a distinct nation and thus deserve political independence from other regions and communities of India. However, he would not elucidate or specify if his ideal Islamic state would construe a theocracy, even as he rejected secularism and nationalism. The latter part of Iqbal's life was concentrated on political activity. He would travel across Europe and West Asia to garner political and financial support for the League, and he reiterated his ideas in his 1932 address, and during the Third Round-Table Conference, he opposed the Congress and proposals for transfer of power without considerable autonomy or independence for Muslim provinces. He would serve as president of the Punjab Muslim League, and would deliver speeches and publish articles in an attempt to rally Muslims across India as a single political entity. Iqbal consistently criticised feudal classes in Punjab as well as Muslim politicians averse to the League.

Muhammad Iqbal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Omar1984]

You need to see that it was either 2005 or 2007. It has certainly increased.

It was 2007, how many could have increased in two years. You Indians are already so over-populated. Find a 2009 census, Pakistan's population is also growing.

 

[Omar1984]

500 Million Muslims of indian sub continenent is a big power ,Britishers and Hindu leaders were afraid of this power , may be that is reason they adopted divide and rule methodology, formula developed for seperation was in favour of India , hydrabad and Kashmir taken by force and East pakistan was 1000 miles away from West Pakistan.

I think Indian sub continent should remain united but muslim populated states or provinces should have been given autonomy.Allama Iqbal also had given similar idea.

Now muslims remain in India are facing lot of problems due to division and bangalees will always remain under threat of India.

There would still be over 900 million Hindus.

 

[glomex]

There would still be over 900 million Hindus.

Yes there are more than 900 Million Hindus In India...

And India is a Hindu Majority Country....Just like Pakistan is a Muslim majority country...
What are you trying to prove......