Whats Wrong with ISPR Press release emphasizing "BETTER GOVERNANCE" from Political Leadership

[jupiter2007]

Government reforms required to make Pakistan a stronger nation.

*Strong Federal/Central Government
*Strong Anti-Corruption Polices
*Strong Political Reform Polices
*Strong Foreign Polices
*Strong National Defense Policies
*Strong Standard Education Polices
*Strong Economic Reform Polices
*Strong Privatization Polices
*Strong Universal Healthcare Policies
*Strong Democratic Legal System
*Strong Social Justice Polices
*Strong Labour Reform Polices.

 

[Mrc]

Sir, I respect your personal opinion about him (BTW I agree with you).

However, matters of law are not subject to personal opinions. Therein lies a huge difference.



Sir, the Army just completed a soft coup not that long ago, only a few months ago in fact. Let us not forget that.

Interest of pakistani people is above and beyond man made laws

 

[VCheng]

Interest of pakistani people is above and beyond man made laws

Sir, the interest and the will of the Pakistani people lies in the Constitution. What the Army does is just as man made, unless you wish to claim they are divine.

 

[saiyan0321]

Sir, I respect your personal opinion about him (BTW I agree with you).

However, matters of law are not subject to personal opinions. Therein lies a huge difference.



Sir, the Army just completed a soft coup not that long ago, only a few months ago in fact. Let us not forget that.

That soft coup is no excuse that the govt was completely inept during the the sindh famine, the earthquake , combatting corruption, giving justice, restoring IDP and developing data and balochistan.... It doesn't excuse of bcz they still have control over the administrative section of the country... According to the rumors that was a scare tactic to get nawaz in line. It doesn't excuse his failures here... This is solely on him and the failure of the civilian govt is seen by the people... They have completely failed to improve their image during crisis....

Sir, I respect your personal opinion about him (BTW I agree with you).

However, matters of law are not subject to personal opinions. Therein lies a huge difference.



Sir, the Army just completed a soft coup not that long ago, only a few months ago in fact. Let us not forget that.

That soft coup is no excuse that the govt was completely inept during the the sindh famine, the earthquake , combatting corruption, giving justice, restoring IDP and developing data and balochistan.... It doesn't excuse of bcz they still have control over the administrative section of the country... According to the rumors that was a scare tactic to get nawaz in line. It doesn't excuse his failures here... This is solely on him and the failure of the civilian govt is seen by the people... They have completely failed to improve their image during crisis....

 

[Mrc]

Sir, the interest and the will of the Pakistani people lies in the Constitution. What the Army does is just as man made, unless you wish to claim they are divine.

And what if that constitution is failing to protect the commons??

Is it army's fault or job that killer of that teen in lahore ; kanju; drugged and derranged has walked free from our courts??

 

[Paksanity]

How long ago was the soft coup dharna drama? The same mistakes are being done even now. Clearly.

Not a substantiated claim. Here is something substantial.

Amin Fahim’s daughter given diplomatic post - thenews.com.pk

How Pakistan's Energy Crisis Fuels Terrorism | Michael Hughes

Pakistan’s energy crisis could topple government, warns expert - Business - DAWN.COM

Pakistan’s power crisis: Trans-Mission Impossible - Blogs - DAWN.COM

These are things that bring civilian governments down, not the military. Still don't believe me? Explain this, then

 

[Jaanbaz]

Is this the right Army?

Like I said, looters and thugs. Thugs and looters. This is the fate of Pakistan.

My favourite night. No kidding. I rejoiced, we all rejoiced in the streets as Ganja was overthrown. I can still remember it, then Gen Musharaf gave live speech to the nation.

 

[Lone Ranger]

Sorry i am not a PTI supporter.

I don't agree with many of the PTI polices.

1) I believe in revamping the whole political system, but PTI doesn't. I believe in Presidential system or any system other than this corrupt parliamentarian system, but PTI wants to continue with his corrupt system.
2) I believe in land reforms, but PTI doesn't.
3) I believe 2nd Tier government should be at Divisional level (no more provincial government), but PTI doesn't believe in this.

Ok bro don't mind

 

[salarsikander]

My favourite night. No kidding. I rejoiced, we all rejoiced in the streets as Ganja was overthrown. I can still remember it, then Gen Musharaf gave live speech to the nation.

Mine too

 

[VCheng]

And what if that constitution is failing to protect the commons??

Is it army's fault or job that killer of that teen in lahore ; kanju; drugged and derranged has walked free from our courts??

So what is the difference between Kanju walking free and the Army Major who raped that doctor in Sui and walked free, or may be the Wasim Akram gun incident? (There are other more serious cases but I will keep quiet about them for fear of inciting anger.)

This is what I meant by looters and thugs taking turns in exploiting the people, equally. The reasons for the Constitution failing the people go back decades. Expecting it to function all of a sudden will not work. Everyone needs to do their part in following the law and rebuild all that has been destroyed over decades. It will take a long time, if we start now. (And we have not.)

According to the rumors that was a scare tactic to get nawaz in line.

Thuggery by any other name ....... is thuggery. By what rightful law does the Army gets to "scare" their rightful superiors?

Not a substantiated claim. Here is something substantial.

Amin Fahim’s daughter given diplomatic post - thenews.com.pk

How Pakistan's Energy Crisis Fuels Terrorism | Michael Hughes

Pakistan’s energy crisis could topple government, warns expert - Business - DAWN.COM

Pakistan’s power crisis: Trans-Mission Impossible - Blogs - DAWN.COM

These are things that bring civilian governments down, not the military. Still don't believe me? Explain this, then


View attachment 271430

So what has brought every Martial Law down? Let us talk about that too.

My favourite night. No kidding. I rejoiced, we all rejoiced in the streets as Ganja was overthrown. I can still remember it, then Gen Musharaf gave live speech to the nation.

Yes, the people rejoice when Martial Law is imposed. The people also rejoice when Martial Law is forced to leave, please do not forget that part.

 

[Humble Analyst]

Dont act like retarded people.
We know how genius and pious were ayub, yahya, zia , mysharaf, kiyani and other generals.

Cut the Bullshit, it is people like you who gave Pakistan a bad name, did you learn any manners anywhere?

Apparently, he was better at following the law than the Army!

This is icing on the cake seriously????????????

Dont act like retarded people.
We know how genius and pious were ayub, yahya, zia , mysharaf, kiyani and other generals.

You are hiding behind forums and using this language, @waz please note the comment about acting like retard otherwise I will reply him next time differently @Oscar

Truth might have hurt you sir. The fact is that no one in pakistan has ever tried to remove this feudalistic system. Army is a status quo power and just went along with them as long they posed no threat to federation, you can see who was with Ayub, Zia, and musharraf.

Politicians are hungry by nature and prepared to take humiliation just for power.

It does not hurt me Sir

So what is the difference between Kanju walking free and the Army Major who raped that doctor in Sui and walked free, or may be the Wasim Akram gun incident? (There are other more serious cases but I will keep quiet about them for fear of inciting anger.)

This is what I meant by looters and thugs taking turns in exploiting the people, equally. The reasons for the Constitution failing the people go back decades. Expecting it to function all of a sudden will not work. Everyone needs to do their part in following the law and rebuild all that has been destroyed over decades. It will take a long time, if we start now. (And we have not.)



Thuggery by any other name ....... is thuggery. By what rightful law does the Army gets to "scare" their rightful superiors?



So what has brought every Martial Law down? Let us talk about that too.



Yes, the people rejoice when Martial Law is imposed. The people also rejoice when Martial Law is forced to leave, please do not forget that part.

Confused nation?

 

[Paksanity]

So what has brought every Martial Law down? Let us talk about that too.

Do not deflect the argument please. Poor performance of politicians is the prime reason and we should not be blinded by our prejudices to put the blame where it lies. Much to the credit of military they have refrained from taking over despite the overwhelming support for it. For democracy to get strong, it has to deliver. It doesn't and a person on the street doesn't give a damn what someone sitting in US thinks. He will choose martial law every time if democracy doesn't deliver.

 

[Humble Analyst]

Sir, the interest and the will of the Pakistani people lies in the Constitution. What the Army does is just as man made, unless you wish to claim they are divine.

The constitution was written in haste amended by corrupt Parliament so it is not working. Cannot be that good or sacred if it is not working.

 

[Dubious]

This..
The common man just wants a solution to his problem. He doesn't give a damn about democracy nor the constitution... The civilian govt is simply unable to aid him due to incompetence. I mean whenever the country suffers from crisis its the army that comes to the rescue.

The civil govt cant aid him coz they dont represent him....

Tell me 1 person from the so called civilian govt who is either fresh in Politics, without backing from or himself being in the elite circle? Just 1 from a humble background of non military, non married into politics family, never been into the elite circle!

Remember a few years ago the doctors were at strike against the govt policies and the people were dying and the army came to the rescue as they sent their medical corp to civilian hospitals...

Exactly they seem to be the 1st level of defence for our country to save it from ANY form of catastrophe be it natural or man made!

Heck in this factory collapse the govt was helpless and the army was called in where they sent their engineers with equipment to dig the people out. The media is reporting army relief effort in a factory collapse. If the civilian govt can't even handle a factory collapse then perhaps there is no need for them bcz of they fail here then what will they do during more serious crisis.

Exactly, there were numerous crisis where the ministers were unreachable and people had to wait to get orders or get some stuff cleared....there were times ministers did not even understand the situation let alone give orders to fix it!

It is true if such creatures are just sitting on eggs to get paid then we dont need to pay them for their failures.....

The common sees the army only and questions the position of the civilian govt and sees them as incompetent and corrupt which you can't believe on the common man. This is how martial law come. In our entire history not eve. Once did a martial law come and the people said we don't want it.. The people always supported it and heck the people were calling fornit during kiyani.

Why shouldnt they? Just coz foreign bodies claim martial law is wrong the world goes thoo tho at it without using the brain to think that maybe for this kind of society it is good for us and isnt that what should matter? WHAT IS GOOD FOR US not for people siting in foreign land?

Army will stop interfering if the civilian govt becomes competent bcz the people will start to look at the civilian govt. The civilian govt shows incompetence which prompts the people to ask for check and balance and the army provides that. The nab is corrupt, the courts are corrupt and the process is a failure and those that can solve all this are corrupt so what are the people supposed to do but look at saviours?

Even those doing check and balance of the civilian govt are usually the either paid off or family and friends of the corrupt!

So obviously without a neutral body people will go for the alternative which is the army...But those who hate the army - unko koi nai samjha sakta...Just coz they lose some benefits from the corrupt or the army doesnt favour them, they dont give 2 hoots about the whole of Pakistan and bad mouth the army without being rational enough to see and balanced enough to point out the corrupt civilian bodies!

The army is on the right here... I am not losing 60000+ people again bcz the civilian administration was too corrupt and incompetent and we should all stay quite bcz its not written in the law for the parliament to be checked....

agreed

The constitution can only be amended in the Parliament and why would they make a law that can put check and balance on them... They will much sooner make a law claiming themselves as kings before they make a law that makes them answerable.

EXACTLY!

 

[VCheng]

Confused nation?

Very likely one of the contributing factors.

Do not deflect the argument please. Poor performance of politicians is the prime reason and we should not be blinded by our prejudices to put the blame where it lies. Much to the credit of military they have refrained from taking over despite the overwhelming support for it. For democracy to get strong, it has to deliver. It doesn't and a person on the street doesn't give a damn what someone sitting in US thinks. He will choose martial law every time if democracy doesn't deliver.

It is you who is attempting deflection. The Martial Law episodes have destroyed the institutions that led to the poor performance of the politicians, and even during civil governments, the Army's illegal meddling in politics has been very effective in preventing the emergence of any real challenge to to exercise of supra-Constitutional authority. It is mighty rich to now claim that the civilian government is not doing its job, don't you think? The same people who "choose" Martial Law are also the ones who want it gone after ten years of being deprived yet again.

The constitution was written in haste amended by corrupt Parliament so it is not working. Cannot be that good or sacred if it is not working.

Then amend it, following due process, if it is not working. The Constitution is never a static thing, but a living document.