WHAT'S INSIDE THE AH-64E APACHE FOR INDIA?

[kaykay]

Helis cant be compared with jets. They both have different roles and capabilities. Modern day jets are not very much susceptible to anti air craft guns but helis are piece of cake for HMGs in anti air craft roles.

As I said there are many limitations. gunships can fire anti tank missiles from more than 10 kms away or from atitude well beyond any manpad can reach.

altitude*

 

[Abingdonboy]

Attack helis, no more how advanced they are, are of little usage in full scale war like between pakistan and india..Both these countries have sufficient weapons with their ground forces to shoot down any heli. They are good only for LIC

Nonsense, in the plains of Thar these Apaches will be part of the IBGs and will devour enemy armour.

Bhai... needs cane be met... greed cannot

22 (plus an option for 11 more) for the IAF, 39 (with an option for 15 or so more) for the IA (so potentially 87 Apaches) and confirmed orders close to 200 LCH for both the IA and IAF. This is the reality- not a greedy fantasy.

Well I wont say you are wrong but I think this purchase is more China specific. PA does not have a very component helicopter force and the current strength that IA has is quite enough to handle it if not over power it. While on the other hand the dragon is a way ahead in both quantity and quality and most of these Apaches would be deployed on Indo-Sino border. Moreover keeping in mind the recent Indo Chinese border clashes where China did not hesitate to show its strength this purchase will be beneficial to the Indian cause.

For high altitudes (much of the Indo-China border) the LCH will be utilised to a greater extent- the LCH has been optimised from the outset for high altitude warfare.

Modern day jets are not very much susceptible to anti air craft guns but helis are piece of cake for HMGs in anti air craft roles.

In an urban environment it is true that attack helos are susceptible to ground fire but in a conventional conflict where the two sides are opposing each other and you are fighting in deserts or mountainous terrain how is a attack helo going to come under HMG fire especially if it is in an anti-armour role. The range of hellfires/ATGMs mean the enemy will be smoking before they are aware they have been targeted and well out of HMG range.

 

[xperia]

Nonsense, in the plains of Thar these Apaches will be part of the IBGs and will devour enemy armour.


22 (plus an option for 11 more) for the IAF, 39 (with an option for 15 or so more) for the IA (so potentially 87 Apaches) and confirmed orders close to 200 LCH for both the IA and IAF. This is the reality- not a greedy fantasy.


For high altitudes (much of the Indo-China border) the LCH will be utilised to a greater extent- the LCH has been optimised from the outset for high altitude warfare.


In an urban environment it is true that attack helos are susceptible to ground fire but in a conventional conflict where the two sides are opposing each other and you are fighting in deserts or mountainous terrain how is a attack helo going to come under HMG fire especially if it is in an anti-armour role. The range of hellfires/ATGMs mean the enemy will be smoking before they are aware they have been targeted and well out of HMG range.

In Thar enemy armor will not be sitting without any air defence, air cover
In mountainous terrain helis will are even more susceptible to ground fire. Ask taliban. They will teach you some lessons in this respect

 

[Abingdonboy]

In mountainous terrain helis will are even more susceptible to ground fire. Ask taliban. They will teach you some lessons in this respect

Well the IA isn't planning to fight the Taliban. The Apache is being procured for conventional missions (armour busting)- COIN in mountainous environments isn't a massive worry to them.

 

[xperia]

Well the IA isn't planning to fight the Taliban. The Apache is being procured for conventional missions (armour busting)- COIN in mountainous environments isn't a massive worry to them.

Both the PLA and PA are better equipped then the taliban

 

[Kinetic]

India would buy some 50 more Apache and there 200 LCH ordered as well. These together will create havoc on the enemy ground forces. @Windjammer @Ifrit

lol

 

[topgun047]

LCH was designed from ground up in response to the demands of IA during Kargil war.
No other chopper exists in the world in the same niche as LCH.

 

[Basel]

As I said there are many limitations. gunships can fire anti tank missiles from more than 10 kms away or from atitude well beyond any manpad can reach.

altitude*

If your upcoming AH can fire ATGM up to 10 or even 12kms then it will be shoot down by PA air defence before it can come close enough to launch ATGM, why? Because PA is already using FM-90s which can hit targets up to 15kms.

HQ-7B Short-Range Air Defense Missile System | Military-Today.com

 

[Abingdonboy]

If your upcoming AH can fire ATGM up to 10 or even 12kms then it will be shoot down by PA air defence before it can come close enough to launch ATGM, why? Because PA is already using FM-90s which can hit targets up to 15kms.

View attachment 268537

HQ-7B Short-Range Air Defense Missile System | Military-Today.com

Because slow, low-flying attack helicopters will be operating with SAMs still in operation? The first target of any conventional military operation will be such systems, Apaches are only going to be flying in where there is total air supremacy by the IAF.

 

[Basel]

Because slow, low-flying attack helicopters will be operating with SAMs still in operation? The first target of any conventional military operation will be such systems, Apaches are only going to be flying in where there is total air supremacy by the IAF.

That is not fully possible now although PA is taking this scenario in consideration and getting required SAMS and upgrading current available capability.

 

[Abingdonboy]

That is not fully possible now although PA is taking this scenario in consideration and getting required SAMS and upgrading current available capability.

Take away the nuclear umbrella and the IAF and IA are more than capable of gaining air supremacy over the Pakistani territory where India's IBGs would be venturing into. I understand the Pak mil has begun to upgrade their air defence systems and network but it would be of limited use against the kind of force India is able to bring against Pakistan and this conventional disparity is only growing with each passing year.

 

[Basel]

Take away the nuclear umbrella and the IAF and IA are more than capable of gaining air supremacy over the Pakistani territory where India's IBGs would be venturing into. I understand the Pak mil has begun to upgrade their air defence systems and network but it would be of limited use against the kind of force India is able to bring against Pakistan and this conventional disparity is only growing with each passing year.

They have been upgrading it since last ten year dear and all capabilities of enemy is taken in to consideration before making strategy to counter it then purchases are made.

India is powerful yes, but not enough to gaining full dominance over Pakistan.

 

[waz]

Can we leave the India v Pakistan stuff out of this please. This has been discussed before on the LCH thread, in the Pakistan army section.

 

[Abingdonboy]

They have been upgrading it since last ten year dear and all capabilities of enemy is taken in to consideration before making strategy to counter it then purchases are made.

This is a straw man argument my friend. Ten years of modernisation doesn't make much of a difference if the funds you have are limited (and from what understand CAPEX has been under strain for the past decade at least for Pakistan's military). I'm sure the Pak mil have done their best but at some point it will be futile. The Iraqi military had over a decade to prepare for the 2003 invasion but their AD system was annihilated in hours, at some point the conventional military imbalance between India and Pakistan will not be dissimilar to the US and Iraq.

India is powerful yes, but not enough to gaining full dominance over Pakistan.

Over the entire nation of Pakistan? Probably not but that is not what I had said mate. I stated that the Indian military will be able to get air supremacy over the battlefields/areas where the integrated battle groups (IBGs) would launch their operations into so as to allow these IBGs to prosecute their objectives at will.

 

[illusion8]

Take away the nuclear umbrella and the IAF and IA are more than capable of gaining air supremacy over the Pakistani territory where India's IBGs would be venturing into. I understand the Pak mil has begun to upgrade their air defence systems and network but it would be of limited use against the kind of force India is able to bring against Pakistan and this conventional disparity is only growing with each passing year.

It doesn't have to be about pakistan or china. .We have other neighbors, other threat specifics..its more about building capabilities. .so when the time comes we don't suffer the lack of such a platform in the armory.

AH's can fly faster, reach places where other ground units cannot, see hostiles earlier and when need be...take them out... provide cover, take out terrorists at the LOC like the US used it to take out the taliban...There's so much such a machine can do.