What you should think about before you judge others

[Dubious]

Toby Morris, an Australian illustrator, has created a comic strip which can teach us an important lesson: that not everyone has the same opportunities in life. This is a short story about two people born into completely different families, whose members play contrasting roles in their children’s lives. We think it’s well worth reading.

’There is no such thing as a "self-made man". We are made up of thousands of others. Everyone who has ever done a kind deed for us, or spoken one word of encouragement to us, has entered into the makeup of our character and of our thoughts, as well as our success.’

What you should think about before you judge others


I believe this to be relatively true and what is keeping the poor and rich apart...despite all the show of globalization and bridging the gap between rich and poor...it is making it wider!

It is relatively irritating how the cycle of richness and poor dont meet and those who do help the poor are considered to be burdening the rich....

Sure, some may overlap but that is prob less than 1% of the poor and rich ...what about the remaining 99%?

Same is the case for refugees and immigrants....But only one with a heart and a brain will think in this direction!

 

[Indus Falcon]

"Heart AND Brain", unfortunately we find a lot of lopsided idiots, but balanced, and unbiased, are quite a rarity.

 

[Asif Durrani]

Toby Morris, an Australian illustrator, has created a comic strip which can teach us an important lesson: that not everyone has the same opportunities in life. This is a short story about two people born into completely different families, whose members play contrasting roles in their children’s lives. We think it’s well worth reading.

’There is no such thing as a "self-made man". We are made up of thousands of others. Everyone who has ever done a kind deed for us, or spoken one word of encouragement to us, has entered into the makeup of our character and of our thoughts, as well as our success.’

What you should think about before you judge others


I believe this to be relatively true and what is keeping the poor and rich apart...despite all the show of globalization and bridging the gap between rich and poor...it is making it wider!

It is relatively irritating how the cycle of richness and poor dont meet and those who do help the poor are considered to be burdening the rich....

Sure, some may overlap but that is prob less than 1% of the poor and rich ...what about the remaining 99%?

Same is the case for refugees and immigrants....But only one with a heart and a brain will think in this direction!

I thought you are a conservative. Why you borrowing from "liberal propaganda"?

 

[Dubious]

I thought you are a conservative. Why you borrowing from "liberal propaganda"?

1) I am what I am....in a dynamic world a person has to be flexible...Hence no real word on the planet suits me and I hate labelling myself!
2) What is liberal about this "propaganda"
3) Kindly keep to the topic which isnt about liberalism nor Conservatives!

 

[Indus Falcon]

I thought you are a conservative. Why you borrowing from "liberal propaganda"?

One mans "conservative", another mans "liberal".

Btw still trying to figure out what you found liberal in the OP. Kindly, do elaborate. Would really appreciate it.

 

[Asif Durrani]

One mans "conservative", another mans "liberal".

Btw still trying to figure out what you found liberal in the OP. Kindly, do elaborate. Would really appreciate it.

Conservative belief:
Poverty is inflicted by God as a punishment for sins and laziness, and therefore, well deserved.

Liberal belief:
Poverty is a reality brought about by lack of access to enabling factors such as education, nutrition, family background, etc., usually due to entrenched factors such as racism.

Elections are fought in the US on these twin tenets.

1) I am what I am....in a dynamic world a person has to be flexible...Hence no real word on the planet suits me and I hate labelling myself!
2) What is liberal about this "propaganda"
3) Kindly keep to the topic which isnt about liberalism nor Conservatives!

Conservative belief:
Poverty is inflicted by God as a punishment for sins and laziness, and therefore, well deserved.

Liberal belief:
Poverty is a reality brought about by lack of access to enabling factors such as education, nutrition, family background, etc., usually due to entrenched factors such as racism.

It is as related to your topic as anything ever will be.

 

[VCheng]

Conservative belief:
Poverty is inflicted by God as a punishment for sins and laziness, and therefore, well deserved.

Liberal belief:
Poverty is a reality brought about by lack of access to enabling factors such as education, nutrition, family background, etc., usually due to entrenched factors such as racism.

Elections are fought in the US on these twin tenets.



Conservative belief:
Poverty is inflicted by God as a punishment for sins and laziness, and therefore, well deserved.

Liberal belief:
Poverty is a reality brought about by lack of access to enabling factors such as education, nutrition, family background, etc., usually due to entrenched factors such as racism.

It is as related to your topic as anything ever will be.

Let us not forget how poverty is defined: In 2012, the poverty threshold for a family of four in USA was $23,492 (or over PKR 2 lakh per month). It is all relative, Sir, and the definition ensures that some people will always be at the threshold.

 

[Asif Durrani]

Let us not forget how poverty is defined: In 2012, the poverty threshold for a family of four in USA was $23,492 (or over PKR 2 lakh per month). It is all relative, Sir, and the definition ensures that some people will always be at the threshold.

Yes, poverty is relative. Some conservative Christians as well as Conservative Muslims mistake the pity that their religion shows towards the poor as some sort of genuine empathy towards poverty. Pity and charity towards poverty are well-established principles in both religions. What is not so well established in either religion is an understanding of the true causes of poverty, such as the one posted in this thread.

 

[VCheng]

Yes, poverty is relative. Some conservative Christians as well as Conservative Muslims mistake the pity that their religion shows towards the poor as some sort of genuine empathy towards poverty. Pity and charity towards poverty are well-established principles in both religions. What is not so well established in either religion is an understanding of the true causes of poverty, such as the one posted in this thread.

Charity is a very personal attribute, but the elimination of depriving poverty falls into the domain of social engineering. While the former has religious associations, the latter does not..

 

[Zibago]

I thought you are a conservative. Why you borrowing from "liberal propaganda"?

Bulleya Ki Jana Main Kaun | Sufi Poetry

 

[Dubious]

Conservative belief:
Poverty is inflicted by God as a punishment for sins and laziness, and therefore, well deserved.

Now that is stupidity! I dont see anyone with a brain preaching that shit let alone supporting it!

Liberal belief:
Poverty is a reality brought about by lack of access to enabling factors such as education, nutrition, family background, etc., usually due to entrenched factors such as racism.

It is as related to your topic as anything ever will be.

Ok...

Honestly speaking Conservative and Liberal believes are not as simple as this nor are these the sole examples or purposes hence why I dont label myself! I may be conservative for 1 stance and liberal for this one you mentioned hence no label fits me...world is not black or white and it is dynamic so why should my stand be very clear cut and not changing with the world events?

Yes, poverty is relative. Some conservative Christians as well as Conservative Muslims mistake the pity that their religion shows towards the poor as some sort of genuine empathy towards poverty. Pity and charity towards poverty are well-established principles in both religions. What is not so well established in either religion is an understanding of the true causes of poverty, such as the one posted in this thread.

This forum does not allow religious discussions...However, you have picked a point which shows your lack of understanding of religion esp Abrahamic religion...

It is neither about pity nor punishment! Kindly do show where you gain such knowledge from!

As for your last sentence...If there is no understanding for causes - then why is Zakat COMPULSORY to minimize this gap and allow one class to compete and the other to show compassion?
If there is no understanding why did the Prophet teach that you are not among us if you dont "desire" for your brother what you desire for yourself and even not to allow your neighbour to sleep hungry....Now if every rich man fed a hungry neighbour, how is that not showing an understanding of the fact that not everyone gets equal chances and it is up to us to be aware (as the pictures show), acknowledge and do something about it (Zakat/ Sedeqah)?

Then we have awareness where it is compulsory to fast to feel as the saying goes: one would not feel until they are in the other's shoes....Islam puts you in their shoes even if you are multimillionaire you are asked to live a day in their shoes...

There are other things in play like Qurbani where 1/3 is the rights of the poor and you arent allowed to have any part of it....

Where helping 1 to have 1 meal is given the same good deeds as keeping a fast?

Now if you take this as collectively....it not only raises awareness (through Prophet's preaching), it acknowledges and demonstrates (Fasting) this and shows you what to do to help bridge the gap (Zakat, Qurbani, charity)

 

[Asif Durrani]

Now that is stupidity! I dont see anyone with a brain preaching that shit let alone supporting it!



Ok...

Honestly speaking Conservative and Liberal believes are not as simple as this nor are these the sole examples or purposes hence why I dont label myself! I may be conservative for 1 stance and liberal for this one you mentioned hence no label fits me...world is not black or white and it is dynamic so why should my stand be very clear cut and not changing with the world events?


This forum does not allow religious discussions...However, you have picked a point which shows your lack of understanding of religion esp Abrahamic religion...

It is neither about pity nor punishment! Kindly do show where you gain such knowledge from!

As for your last sentence...If there is no understanding for causes - then why is Zakat COMPULSORY to minimize this gap and allow one class to compete and the other to show compassion?
If there is no understanding why did the Prophet teach that you are not among us if you dont "desire" for your brother what you desire for yourself and even not to allow your neighbour to sleep hungry....Now if every rich man fed a hungry neighbour, how is that not showing an understanding of the fact that not everyone gets equal chances and it is up to us to be aware (as the pictures show), acknowledge and do something about it (Zakat/ Sedeqah)?

Then we have awareness where it is compulsory to fast to feel as the saying goes: one would not feel until they are in the other's shoes....Islam puts you in their shoes even if you are multimillionaire you are asked to live a day in their shoes...

There are other things in play like Qurbani where 1/3 is the rights of the poor and you arent allowed to have any part of it....

Where helping 1 to have 1 meal is given the same good deeds as keeping a fast?

Now if you take this as collectively....it not only raises awareness (through Prophet's preaching), it acknowledges and demonstrates (Fasting) this and shows you what to do to help bridge the gap (Zakat, Qurbani, charity)

Your posts originate from fantastical matter-of-fact ignorance.
A) No religion talks about affirmative action and equal opportunity. Zakat is piety and has nothing to do with understanding the true causes of poverty.
B) Since you claim to be the expert on conservativism, maybe you should adduce from where you got the notion that Zakat and Christian charity show an understanding of poverty beyond pity and large-heartedness. These are not the same as calling for equal opportunity.
Zakat is ALMS given to BEGGARS. Where in religion does it say that poor people are such because of lack of education and equal opportunity?
Just mentioning terms and then claiming that it shows x or y is classic religious obfuscation.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Your posts originate from fantastical matter-of-fact ignorance.
A) No religion talks about affirmative action and equal opportunity. Zakat is piety and has nothing to do with understanding the true causes of poverty.
B) Since you claim to be the expert on conservativism, maybe you should adduce from where you got the notion that Zakat and Christian charity show an understanding of poverty beyond pity and large-heartedness. These are not the same as calling for equal opportunity.
Zakat is ALMS given to BEGGARS. Where in religion does it say that poor people are such because of lack of education and equal opportunity?
Just mentioning terms and then claiming that it shows x or y is classic religious obfuscation.

Side Note: What is Zakat?

The alms are only for the poor and the needy, and those who collect them, and those whose hearts are to be reconciled, and to free the captives and the debtors, and for the cause of Allah, and (for) the wayfarer; a duty imposed by Allah. Allah is Knower, Wise.
Surah Al Tawba, Ayah No.60

So, where can your zakat go?

1. 1. The poor (al-fuqarâ’), meaning low-income or indigent: This can mean a homeless person on your block, kids whose families qualify for free or reduced-price lunches, or orphans in Bangladesh. Anyone who does not have the funds to live a stable life, feed themselves and their family, go to the doctor when they need to and grow up to be a productive citizen falls under this category.
2. 2. The needy (al-masâkîn), meaning someone who is in difficulty: Someone in need might not necessarily be poor, right? Some people are forced from their homes by war or natural disasters. Or imagine a mother who gets sick and cannot take care of her children. Even with money in the bank, they may still need help. Your zakat can be there for them.
3. 3. Zakat administrators, meaning any trustworthy organization that helps you calculate your zakat and accepts the payment for it. In the United States these tend to be categorized as non-profit or 501(c)3 organizations with tax-exempt status. To learn more about any group that offers to distribute your zakat on your behalf, search for them using independent websites such as CharityNavigator.org or GreatNonProfits.org.
4. 4. Those whose hearts are to be reconciled, meaning new Muslims and friends of the Muslim community: You read that right. Your zakat can be distributed to new Muslims, and to people in the larger community. This not only exemplifies the Muslim tradition of social justice for all, but shows reverts how important they are, and helps build bonds of cooperation and friendship between Muslims and non-Muslims.
5. 5. Those in bondage (slaves and captives): Even though slavery is outlawed in most parts of the world, many people are still trafficked, meaning bought and sold, as slaves. Using zakat to help any of these people become free and independent again seems like a no-brainer.
6. 6. The debt-ridden: Yes, zakat can help people pay their debts. Living with a great burden of debt can be debilitating to an individual or family, but your zakat can help.
7. 7. In the cause of God: Have you ever wanted to help build a mosque? Or maybe you graduated from a Muslim school and want to support it through ongoing contributions. Donations to your mosque, Muslim school or Muslim youth group are zakat-worthy. And the benefits of that charity keep giving for years to come!
8. 8. The wayfarer, meaning those who are stranded or traveling with few resources: Whether a refugee who is fleeing violence in a distant country or a motorist stranded on the side of the road, God has designated that anyone who is away from home, out of cash and in need of help is eligible to receive your zakat.

While zakat is not the only form of charity in Islam, it is so important that it was made the Third Pillar. Through zakat the prosperous can uplift the poor, help those who are troubled and comfort those who are in hardship. The law of zakat establishes the rights of the poor to support and help, and releases those who are held captive as slaves or as debtors. Zakat has the power to change the world. But it starts with you paying it.

 

[Tiger Genie]

@Akheilos - good simple way to explain one way perfectly normal people end up in / remain in poverty. There of course are many other ways:
* the person who inherits all wealth and doesn't realize value of money and ends up splurging his/her way to poverty
* the kid from an affluent family that gets into great school through affluence but throws it all away via excesses
* the kid whose rich parents simply provide money but no parenting
...and so on.

@Asif Durrani - why this urge to label (whether as con/lib or pious/atheist or dark/bright....)? Isn't poverty a human condition that regardless of which means one understands it to arise, is more importantly solved or helped solved? In my experience, thoughtful humans, whether conservative or liberal, differ from each other only on a minority of issues and are mostly are in concurrence. It is the extremes that imagine a black and white divide on such grounds. I for example strongly believe in free markets & capitalistic environments and strongly believe in equality of all. So does it matter that the extreme liberal calls me a conservative pig and the neocon calls me a weed smoking hippy? All I stand for in this dimension is for effective value creation (free markets) and just society (equality of people).

 

[insight-out]

Your posts originate from fantastical matter-of-fact ignorance.
A) No religion talks about affirmative action and equal opportunity. Zakat is piety and has nothing to do with understanding the true causes of poverty.
B) Since you claim to be the expert on conservativism, maybe you should adduce from where you got the notion that Zakat and Christian charity show an understanding of poverty beyond pity and large-heartedness. These are not the same as calling for equal opportunity.
Zakat is ALMS given to BEGGARS. Where in religion does it say that poor people are such because of lack of education and equal opportunity?
Just mentioning terms and then claiming that it shows x or y is classic religious obfuscation.

The terms affirmative action and equal opportunity are modern, but the ideas are not. Zakat goes well beyond pity and large-heartedness. You need to educate yourself before making such sweeping statements and accusing others of religious obfuscation.

Yes, poverty is relative. Some conservative Christians as well as Conservative Muslims mistake the pity that their religion shows towards the poor as some sort of genuine empathy towards poverty. Pity and charity towards poverty are well-established principles in both religions. What is not so well established in either religion is an understanding of the true causes of poverty, such as the one posted in this thread.

Your assertion is not correct. Islam does understand the causes of poverty. It also acknowledges that some degree economic disparity is inevitable in a society. But it prescribes personal actions and public policies to narrow that disparity. You really should learn more about the religion before speaking so authoritatively about it.