What Would Taiwan Actually Gain from Reunification with China?

[Beast]

I studied in Tainan for two years. As I talk with many Taiwanese, at least 50% of Taiwanese want to be independent (most of them are in the south). My Taiwan friend also persuaded me to believe him as a Taiwanese, not Chinese. I was also given a book from the University. In that book, it is explained that before 1600s, there's no Chinese in Formosa, the population of local tribes is about 50.000. Then Chinese came, Taiwan tribes was mixed with Chinese to become nowadays Taiwanese, and that's why Taiwanese is not Chinese. In that book , it also introduced Taiwanese character, the book was written by a Taiwan history professor and was given to all the international students of the university.
Finally, I have to say that Tainan people seem to be influenced by Japanese culture, The university president always invite international students to eat at Japanese restaurant, many students watch Japanese TV movies everyday and like Japanese the most.

You interact with mostly student but the other masses taiwanese has different opinion.

 

[Economic superpower]

Taiwan will gain an independent foreign policy!

Also to stop being isolated in the world.

 

[powastick]

Hokklo, Min Nan people can regain independence from China. There was Famosa Republic in the past in Taiwan. Don't trapped yourself when you aggree unification with Han Chinese.

I'm Malaysian Hoklo/Hokkien guy. Although we call ourselves as "Tn̂g-lâng"唐人, people of Tang(dynasty), we are definitely Han Chinese. Those who call themselves as people of Taiwan are history illiterate.

 

[applesauce]

I studied in Tainan for two years. As I talk with many Taiwanese, at least 50% of Taiwanese want to be independent (most of them are in the south). My Taiwan friend also persuaded me to believe him as a Taiwanese, not Chinese. I was also given a book from the University. In that book, it is explained that before 1600s, there's no Chinese in Formosa, the population of local tribes is about 50.000. Then Chinese came, Taiwan tribes was mixed with Chinese to become nowadays Taiwanese, and that's why Taiwanese is not Chinese. In that book , it also introduced Taiwanese character, the book was written by a Taiwan history professor and was given to all the international students of the university.
Finally, I have to say that Tainan people seem to be influenced by Japanese culture, The university president always invite international students to eat at Japanese restaurant, many students watch Japanese TV movies everyday and like Japanese the most.

national polls in taiwan indicate that the majority prefer the status quo.

and yes the mainland peoples only really arrive after the 1600s, and especially after the KMT lost the civil war and escape to taiwan en mass, however the so called "mixing" is not an abnormal thing, or did you really think china(or any large country) reached its size by magic? i have always found it amusing that so many people identify themselves as "han" even though there's so many differences, between the north and south for instance. but this whole point is moot, PRC claims on taiwan is not based on the notion that the people on taiwan is exactly the same as on the mainland, they could be white europeans on that island and it still wouldn't change the claims(fyi china has white european citizens, ie: white russians by race, chinese by citizenship).

and finally, yes taiwan is very much influenced by japan, seeing as how taiwan was a japanese colony for like 50 years. and unlike korea, taiwan was treated much better since it was taken before the japanese military really took over their government and the fact that japan tried to build up(develop) taiwan as a showcase colony(since it was their first colony) as opposed to exploitation that they later did in korea and china.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Hokklo, Min Nan people can regain independence from China. There was Famosa Republic in the past in Taiwan. Don't trapped yourself when you aggree unification with Han Chinese.

You have to learn from Viets.

You know what, I am not sure if there is anything called Vietnamese at all. It should be called Chinese.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

and finally, yes taiwan is very much influenced by japan, seeing as how taiwan was a japanese colony for like 50 years. and unlike korea, taiwan was treated much better since it was taken before the japanese military really took over their government and the fact that japan tried to build up(develop) taiwan as a showcase colony(since it was their first colony) as opposed to exploitation that they later did in korea and china.

Nope, the Japanese militarists often beheaded those Taiwanese aborigines for fun and treated them like slaves, and something even worse like animals, and here is the words from the Taiwanese media.

台媒：日本殖民台湾就是靠剥削-中新网

 

[TaiShang]

Nope, the Japanese militarists often beheaded those Taiwanese aborigines for fun and treated them like slaves, and something even worse like animals, and here is words from the Taiwanese media.

台媒：日本殖民台湾就是靠剥削-中新网

In fact there were numerous uprisings and continuous armed resistance against the Japanese colonialists. Those bunkers and hide-outs can still be visited today.

 

[applesauce]

Nope, the Japanese militarists often beheaded those Taiwanese aborigines for fun and treated them like slaves, and something even worse like animals, and here is the words from the Taiwanese media.

台媒：日本殖民台湾就是靠剥削-中新网

yes i dont not claim there was no resistance or that no crimes were committed, nonetheless treatment of taiwan was considerable better than occupied korea or china. its a relative comparison.

 

[bobsm]

I studied in Tainan for two years. As I talk with many Taiwanese, at least 50% of Taiwanese want to be independent (most of them are in the south). My Taiwan friend also persuaded me to believe him as a Taiwanese, not Chinese. I was also given a book from the University. In that book, it is explained that before 1600s, there's no Chinese in Formosa, the population of local tribes is about 50.000. Then Chinese came, Taiwan tribes was mixed with Chinese to become nowadays Taiwanese, and that's why Taiwanese is not Chinese. In that book , it also introduced Taiwanese character, the book was written by a Taiwan history professor and was given to all the international students of the university.
Finally, I have to say that Tainan people seem to be influenced by Japanese culture, The university president always invite international students to eat at Japanese restaurant, many students watch Japanese TV movies everyday and like Japanese the most.

Your sampling is too small and bias to be meaningful. As of today, over 80% of Taiwanese wish to maintain the status quo.

As for Taiwanese not Chinese, you should better educate yourself with facts, and not some dpp fantasy:

How Han are Taiwanese Han? Genetic inference of Plains Indigenous ancestry among Taiwanese Han and its implications for Taiwan identity

by Chen, Shu-Juo, Ph.D., STANFORD UNIVERSITY, 2009, 156 pages; 3343568

Abstract:

Taiwanese Han have been searching for new cultural or historical grounds upon which to resist Beijing's "Keep Taiwan Chinese" policies. Despite the fact that ancestors of most Taiwanese Han were immigrants from China during the last four hundred years, many Taiwanese Han have sought to establish a unique sense of identity expressed in the well-known folk saying: "There were mainland grandfathers but no mainland grandmothers." They believe Taiwanese Han are genetically different from Chinese Han because the female ancestors of most Taiwanese Han were not Han, but Plains Indigenes, a group of Taiwan Austronesian speakers.

The proportion of Plains Indigenous ancestry among Taiwanese Han was not known before this study because Plains Indigenes are not officially recognized today. The ethnic labeling in the Japanese household registry is the most conclusive reliable resource to identify Plains Indigenes. In this thesis, Plains Indigenes identified from the Japanese household registry and censuses are sampled and genotyped. A genetic distinction between Plains Indigenes and Taiwanese Han is confirmed by their Y chromosome and mtDNA variations. The great number of Han immigrants after the 18th century is the main reason to consider that the early genetic contribution from Plains Indigenes to Taiwanese Han has been largely diluted and no longer exists in any meaningful way.

However, Taiwan blood nationalists and some geneticists have misinterpreted the genetic evidence and misled people in Taiwan into believing the opposite. The "myth of Indigenous genes"—the belief that the majority of people in Taiwan have Indigenous ancestors—is widely accepted. Taiwan blood nationalists have called for Taiwan's independence based on this myth.

The descendants of Plains Indigenes are extremely opposed to using their ancestors in such calls for Taiwan independence. In efforts to revive their traditional culture, maintaining group solidarity among their villagers is more important than differentiating the ancestral origins of village members. "Keep the Village Siraya" is important in the propaganda used in their appeals for official recognition.

While Taiwan blood nationalists use Plains Indigenous ancestors as a template to create a Taiwan nation based on blood, the value of Plains Indigenous ancestors is destroyed by their descendants. Plains Indigenes and Taiwan blood nationalists have different cultural and socioeconomic contexts and the significance of having unique ancestral origins based on blood is treated totally differently. However, no one can deny that the Plains Indigenes have the highest authority to define the values attributed to their ancestors' blood. In this struggle, the denial of the importance of ancestors' blood also destroys the importance of genetic evidence. The claim of Plains Indigenous ancestry among Taiwanese Han becomes socially meaningless.

 

[Jlaw]

depends on the method of reunification.

suppose the ROC, perhaps under some nut job DPP leader, by some miracle manages to declare independence(unlikely in the extreme) or start advance work on nuclear weapons, then there is little to gain and much to lose when the PRC reunites the island by force.

however if taiwan were to get hongkong type reunification, perhaps even more handoff approach than hongkong, then it has much to gain indeed. first of all it will no longer need to invest in the military since the PRC will provide defence as oppose to be defended against, given that the PRC is one of ROC current biggest threats, well that threat would be gone, and given the PRC is a thermonuclear power, taiwan is safe from all except WW3(not that it has many enemies). financially, it would retain its own currency like hongkong and in fact it would promote economic growth given the inevitable incoming investments from the mainland, much like how hongkong was able to avoid any major crashes all these years including the asian financial crisis and the more recent 2008 recession due to mainland government support, and in fact like hongkong, it would probably pay nothing to the national treasury while obtaining its benefits, also the unpopular conscription system would be gone as well. as for territorial disputes, ask yourself who is in a better position to compete with the japanese and various SCS claimants. as for quality of life, in terms of personal freedoms that it has currently, well that would be untouched. local laws would not be impacted so long as it does not adversely impact national laws.

you must understand that aside from history and maybe sentimental value. PRC interest in taiwan is all about geopolitics. the PRC has no interest in subjugating the people of taiwan, it has no interest in babysitting the people there so long as they are not trying to form an arm group or anything. it has no interest in what limited material resources the island has. even the financial benefit and technological benefit is but secondary.

its primary interest is to remove a military threat and gain a valuable doorway to the wider pacific. if taiwan is taken back, the PLA has its opening to the western pacific, this opens a whole ton of other doors, it would no longer be bottled in the first island chain(without building/renting expensive bases elsewhere, even if that was politically viable in the short term). from taiwan PLA would gain a solid footing for power projection all the way to hawaii. this of course would be terrible news for japan/US since from taiwan the PLA could contest disputed island with japan far easily than from the mainland(from more sides too) and US attempts at "pivot" or containment would be in tatters. in the SCS china would now have a massive amount of resources freed that was previously facing taiwan.

I agree with almost all your points except the reference to HK for Taiwan. Taiwan should not be like an HK. HK, a city full of anti Chinese and foreign spies.

No thanks.

Taiwan will become just like any other Chinese province with no special treatment unless required.

 

[Place Of Space]

The most importance: gain the open-mindedness and the bridge to the whole world.

 

[applesauce]

I agree with almost all your points except the reference to HK for Taiwan. Taiwan should not be like an HK. HK, a city full of anti Chinese and foreign spies.

No thanks.

Taiwan will become just like any other Chinese province with no special treatment unless required.

hongkong is not full of "anti chinese and foreign spies" there certainly is a very vocal group of anti-ccp people but they are no way in the majority, most folks just wanna get on with life, furthermore the arrangement is quite beneficial to the mainland, hongkong acts as a gateway to china until china is more developed(shanghai and the like is quickly approaching that). now there is a certain amount of city pride in hongkong where mainlanders might be looked down on, but that is a side effect of the differing lvls of development, hongkong being of course much more developed than many parts of china, the solution isnt to strangled the city under an iron fist, its to develop the rest of the country to be as rich.

 

[Jlaw]

hongkong is not full of "anti chinese and foreign spies" there certainly is a very vocal group of anti-ccp people but they are no way in the majority, most folks just wanna get on with life, furthermore the arrangement is quite beneficial to the mainland, hongkong acts as a gateway to china until china is more developed(shanghai and the like is quickly approaching that). now there is a certain amount of city pride in hongkong where mainlanders might be looked down on, but that is a side effect of the differing lvls of development, hongkong being of course much more developed than many parts of china, the solution isnt to strangled the city under an iron fist, its to develop the rest of the country to be as rich.

You do not need to be the majority in order to gain influence. All you need is a figurehead and people will follow.

 

[applesauce]

You do not need to be the majority in order to gain influence. All you need is a figurehead and people will follow.

those figureheads aren't in power, its not like we have a "evil figurehead" in power with a silent majority thus allowing them to do whatever they want. on the contrary, those figureheads are dumb, disruptive of everyday folks lives, and has very little power. they get hammered by beijing and the majority is okay with it.