What would India do if Soviet Union was at its gates?

[kaykay]

If USSR had come to Pakistan, India would rather have helped them.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

That's a reality that people seem to ignore the Russians and the Americans fight it out in a third country and not directly. Some proscribe it as both being in a position to wipe each other out as the reason they do not go into direct conflict. But both are war economies and keeping conflict zones hot which keeps their weapon industry churning out weapons and allies pumping billions into their coffers to ally or to gain protection from them. Small countries are also dependent on one side or the other for weapons and ammo.

Ideal situation for both, open up newer fronts and then bomb one side of the conflict without threatening each others motherland.

Sometimes I wonder if they work in collaboration.

I actually like the proxy games played out by them. First it started in Germany, NK, then spectacularly in Vietnam and finally in a land like Afghanistan where it is still playing out.
Actually its wrong to call "Soviet Invasion". They came on the invitation of the Afghan ruling elite. I mean, if USA was offered similar thing, would they have told no?

Crimea war, US not honouring Philipines in safeguarding from China etc are examples of big powers back tracking from direct wars. Though yes, US Navy would obliterate Chinese Navy, but what? USN will take atleast few good hits, with few ships suck, death of thousands of marines. They will avoid that.

 

[dadeechi]

Surrender

If you cannot fight them join them.

surrendering is better than perishing.

 

[Indika]

From what I recall, the only reason why India didn't actually annex BD was because Nixon threatened India. Nixon was known to hate India with a passion, in particular Indira Gandhi, whom he accused of blatantly lying to him.

My point, an annexed Pakistan wouldn't be too much out of the ordinary.

You have very good talent for out of the world ...err box imaginary thinking.

US & british did have plans to attack India during 1971 but once soviet subs surfaced in bay of bengal. They just ran away. Threatening & following up are two different things. There was nothing much US could till we had backing of soviets. It was not lying , unlike others Indira could not be bullied which frustrated the americans .

It was not as if nixon liked pakistan, he hated the entire subcontinent.

Ehrlichman: And the India-Pakistan thing in that larger canvas is really not understood by the average guy to be all that important. It’s a bunch of—
Nixon: Unwashed heathen. They’re picking away at each other over there.
Ehrlichman: Either side would have been the wrong side.1

 

[somebozo]

You chose sides.. We didn't. Those who chose sides in the conflict of two giants, get trampled. But Pakistan never had this little nugget of wisdom. You're doing the same mistake again. Choosing a clear side in the upcoming US-China cold war.

If we talk about the Afghan invasion in particular, then did you know that India actually opposed and protested direct military intervention by Soviets ? That was because India was afraid of getting dragged in a conflict which would've jeopardized our Nonalignment.

Yes it was Antarctica Navy which came for your assistance in 1971 East Pakistani war? Correct??
At-least troll with some common sense...India opposed with the usual diplomatic lip service..it did not render any creditable actions towards this opposition....

If USSR had come to Pakistan, India would rather have helped them.

Exactly...and that means our calculation was absolutely right to crush this menace inside Afghanistan itself during its infancy before Afghanistan has time to establish communist government and create a pincer movement against Pakistan with collaboration of India...Infact Pakistan today acts as a glutton of punishment for good Indian-Afghan releations otherwise it is no secret what the Afghans came to India for...Ghori and Mahmud of Ghazni are two names to be written with golden words in Indian history...

So you mean to say that Pakistan never opposed USSR?

Pakistani wasn't Anti-USSR until it began a threat via Afghan occupation..and Sino-Soviet split occurred...otherwise how did we end up with Soviet steel mills in Karachi and MIG fighters in PAF??

An amendment. If you recall, at one time there was indeed a thought under consideration by Soviets of a full scale invasion of Pakistan. Had that occurred we would have moved in to create a buffer against them.

We don't want to annex Pakistan or any territory from it. Had that been the case, Bangladesh would have been annexed.

The poll options are incomplete. India would have remained neutral and not allowed Soviets a free run either, as you have rightly pointed out

The fact is that India had no millitary might to wage a sustainable war against Soviet..a Naval blockade by soviet navy followed by bombing of all ports would have done away good with India...

From what I recall, the only reason why India didn't actually annex BD was because Nixon threatened India. Nixon was known to hate India with a passion, in particular Indira Gandhi, whom he accused of blatantly lying to him.

My point, an annexed Pakistan wouldn't be too much out of the ordinary.

It would take India back 300 years to the time of Islamic invasion of India..with Jihad called everywhere and mass murder of Hindus everywhere..it would have become the lowest filth of humanity to survive..

Just becoz russian were planning on invasion of pakistan, does not mean they were planning the same for india.
We were already good allies by that time.

That means Indian neutrality was a facade?

India was thought to have a back up plan in case Soviets invaded Pakistan. But at the same time India-Russia were covered by friendship treaty of 1971, which doesnt really need the Soviets to invade India as we were already allies. Soviets trusted India, and we did them. A scenario like this doesnt arise.

If Soviets indeed planned to invade Pakistan, there is nothing Pakistan could have done in front of Soviet might. But at this juncture US might have entered war directly with Soviets, which the 2 powers wanted to avoid. Remember US threatened to bomb India for BD war.

There is no question for Soviets to invade India as we were good allies, and never in opposition to them, nor gave our bases to Soviets or USA. We maintain a military neutrality to this day.

The treat means India was no longer neutral..it was allied with soviet...and therefore we planned it well to bury the soviets in Afghanistan itself...

That military neutrality part is a joke..it wasn't Antarctica navy trolling in the Indian ocean during East Pakistan war...and US is not signing CISMOA with Nepal or Bhutan...

 

[third eye]

At the outset the poll is one sided , intended to bring out options to suit the posters opinion.

Next, why would India want to annex BD or any part of Pakistan ? It would be the stupidest thing to do for in one stroke it would alter the demographic balance within india. Besides , gone are the days when IB's can be altered by force. Saddam learnt it the hard way.

On the subject of what Nixon thought then this should be worth a re read .

https://defence.pk/threads/she-would-have-gobbled-up-west-pakistan-nixon-on-indira-in-71-war.358858/

 

[dadeechi]

Pakistani wasn't Anti-USSR until it began a threat via Afghan occupation..and Sino-Soviet split occurred...otherwise how did we end up with Soviet steel mills in Karachi and MIG fighters in PAF??

CENTO was specifically created to prevent USSR from reaching the warm waters of Arabian Sea. Pakistan joined this pact in 1955 while the sino-soviet split started in 1958 and USSR invaded Afghanistan in 1979, the same year when CENTO died.

 

[Samrat420]

Yes it was Antarctica Navy which came for your assistance in 1971 East Pakistani war? Correct??
At-least troll with some common sense...India opposed with the usual diplomatic lip service..it did not render any creditable actions towards this opposition....

1. Please stop labelling everyone as a troll. There was nothing in my post which was off-topic or irrelevant to the discussion here.

2. The Soviet Navy did not actively help India in 1971. What they did was to stop the US and British carrier fleets from intervening in the war. This was part of the cold war game that US and USSR were playing. Pakistan was a staunch ally of US and therefore, from Soviet point of view, an Independent Bangladesh would've reduced US influence in South Asia, and tip the balance in favor of USSR. That's why they signed the friendship treaty with India, not due to any brotherly love.
This was also good for India too, since it would've been insane to take on the combined military might of US + Pakistan + China alone. Non-alignment doesn't mean you shut yourself out from International diplomacy. Non-alignment of India is different from the ‘Isolationist policy' of China in 15th century. India supported US too at times (Korean war for example).

3. Yes. India opposed diplomatically. How else should India have opposed if not diplomatically? What do you want? India should've declared war on the Soviets?

 

[third eye]

The grief that has come Pak's way is not because of its opposition to the Soviets but due to the legacy of the tools it employed with US concurrence. By the time the Soviets left they had developed an organisation with a mind of their own.

The rest is history

 

[G0dfather]

India would have said "Lal Salaam".

And after some time " USSR tere tukde honge, inshallah inshallah"

 

[neem456]

YeThat means Indian neutrality was a facade?



The treat means India was no longer neutral..it was allied with soviet...and therefore we planned it well to bury the soviets in Afghanistan itself...

That military neutrality part is a joke..it wasn't Antarctica navy trolling in the Indian ocean during East Pakistan war...and US is not signing CISMOA with Nepal or Bhutan...

Why are you surprised ?

Smart countries will refuse to allign with one group as much as possible.
Not everyone like to play in toher wars and be used as cannon fodder in every decade.

And to add further non allignment was only meant for peace times, not during war times.
You thought india would just lay down and take beating during war times due to non allignment policy ?ROFL

 

[SQ8]

Considering that the messages sent accross were of Indian occupation officials working with the Soviets; I would think India would relish the opportunity to subjugate Pakistanis into total vassal status, or like the Japanese occupation of China.

 

[somebozo]

The grief that has come Pak's way is not because of its opposition to the Soviets but due to the legacy of the tools it employed with US concurrence. By the time the Soviets left they had developed an organisation with a mind of their own.

The rest is history

Actually it is the mishandling of WOT intended to neutralize these groups combined with US failures in Afghanistan which pushed the animals into our borders..still..it is the stamina of Pakistan to stand and last so long...

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Indian often poking nose on Pakistan joining the anti-soviet war in Afghanistan..lets turn the table and see how India would react under such situation..The scenario assume asymmetric disparity between Red army and those of Indian republic in both - conventional and non-conventional weapons, machinery and war fighting abilities...

So Do you mean that after Afghanistan ; Russia would have occupied Pakistan

Why would Russia occupy Pakistan

 

[third eye]

Actually it is the mishandling of WOT intended to neutralize these groups combined with US failures in Afghanistan which pushed the animals into our borders..still..it is the stamina of Pakistan to stand and last so long...

Thats a view most Pakistanis would like to believe.

The mass radicalisation Zia created in the nation, in the army & in Af lies at the root.

Even if the WOT was not ' mishandled' to use your word this situation would have still been arrived at thanks to the support Zia's action had by then created within Pakistan for such people.

Add to this the ' Strategic Depth' the PA felt it had in Af due to which it kept the ' animals' very close to itself, open borders also helped.

There is so much more & has been discusses here umpteen No of times.