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What twin engine Jet Fighter Suits PAF Doctrine?

I agree that Chinese jets seem most probable options
but why you think in 15 years options will increase? you are pointing at your own project? if so there will be T-129 like restrictions on us.
I dont think so,by that time the Chinese engine will be ready, Eurojet wouldnt want to lose costumers to the Chinese,and dont forget there is a new option,namely Ukraine.
Turkiye could co-develop an engine with Ukraine(they have the knowhow),to many options.
 
Hi,

Range---Load----electronic warfare package---price---no restrictions---can launch all weapons in chinese inventory---Grolwer type capabilities---twin seater.
Vs J-16+J-17s ?

Wow what,what do you know about Turkish aerospace industries?
The only thing we lack is an indigenous engine,all the rest can be provided by Turkish companies.
I said ''if ever'' because of cancelations,we tend to cancel alot of projects.
Ever heard of TAI Turkiye,Aselsan Turkiye?
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ASELSAN | Reliable Technology - HomePage
So,calm down,you are not talking to a fanboy.
Wow let's go where you want ?
Name a Turkish fighter jet develop & produce by TAI ?
&
is or were in use by different or multiple air forces in the world .

If not , please be a fan boy to get more knowledge rather becoming a genius who don't know what he is talking about ?
You think engine manufacturing of a fighter jet , is making a lollipop ?
 
and i forgot another platform, the flyg-2020 from saab

It's not going to be a twin-engine platform though. The end result will look a lot like this demonstrator from Linköping University:

hqdefault.jpg


2dsrbf8.jpg


If it's built it will be a more stealthy version of the JAS 39, not a radically new airframe... if it's built. Budget problems have been an issue:

AIR_JAS-39_Gripen_Cutaway_lg.jpg


d78e2e7aafa77bd6bddf72b1033cb2fc.jpg


4ec04e6482bb334ecc4a4750196d0146.jpg


If Pakistan can't even buy the existing JAS 39, for political or financial reasons, a fifth generation F2020 is not likely either.
 
Hi,

Range---Load----electronic warfare package---price---no restrictions---can launch all weapons in chinese inventory---Grolwer type capabilities---twin seater.

J-16

General characteristics

  • Crew: 2
  • Length: 21.9 m (72 ft)
  • Wingspan: 14.7 m (48.25 ft)
  • Height: 6.36 m (20.85 ft)
  • Wing area: 62.04 m2 (667.80 ft2)
  • Empty weight: 17,700 kg (38,600 lb)
  • Loaded weight: 26,000 kg (58,000 lb)
  • Max. takeoff weight: 35,000 kg (77,000 lb)
  • Powerplant: 2 × WS-10A afterburning turbofans
    • Dry thrust: 89.17 kN (20,050 lbf) each
    • Thrust with afterburner: 135 kN (33,000 lbf) each
Performance

Armament

  • 1 × 30 mm GSh-30-1 cannon with 150 rounds
  • Munitions on twelve external hardpoints, including:
JH7-A

General characteristics

Performance

Armament

Avionics
JL-10A radar
All these armaments can be adjusted on J-16 S ?
J-16s has better engine , faster speed then JH-7s ?
 
Last edited:
Name a Turkish fighter jet develop & produce by TAI ?
&
is or were in use by different or multiple air forces in the world .
Turkiye produced over 300 F-16s,48 for Egypt and the rest for the Turkish Airforce from 1985 to 2013/14.
Turkiye has the capability to produce all systems required for a Jet Fighter,engine excluded as posted.
You think engine manufacturing of a fighter jet , is making a lollipop ?
You have a reading problem or what?
I wrote that we cant build an engine(post 238 of this thread).
Dont quote me again,you are not worth it.
 
It's not going to be a twin-engine platform though. The end result will look a lot like this demonstrator from Linköping University:

hqdefault.jpg


2dsrbf8.jpg


If it's built it will be a more stealthy version of the JAS 39, not a radically new airframe... if it's built. Budget problems have been an issue:

AIR_JAS-39_Gripen_Cutaway_lg.jpg


d78e2e7aafa77bd6bddf72b1033cb2fc.jpg


4ec04e6482bb334ecc4a4750196d0146.jpg


If Pakistan can't even buy the existing JAS 39, for political or financial reasons, a fifth generation F2020 is not likely either.
Comparing JAS39 , F16 BLK 52 still was a better deal cause PAF has experience flying it ?
So that was better decesion !

Turkiye produced over 300 F-16s,48 for Egypt and the rest for the Turkish Airforce from 1985 to 2013/14.
Turkiye has the capability to produce all systems required for a Jet Fighter,engine excluded as posted.

You have a reading problem or what?
I wrote that we cant build an engine(post 238 of this thread).
Dont quote me again,you are not worth it.
Wow , so then we should order our F-16s from turkey ?right
We don't need any dam permisions from USA ?
General dynamics been sold to turkey wow !
Turkiye produced over 300 F-16s,48 for Egypt and the rest for the Turkish Airforce from 1985 to 2013/14.
Turkiye has the capability to produce all systems required for a Jet Fighter,engine excluded as posted.

You have a reading problem or what?
I wrote that we cant build an engine(post 238 of this thread).
Dont quote me again,you are not worth it.
So next what Boeing from Turkey ?lolzz
Well, you are pretty funny though !
 
It's not going to be a twin-engine platform though. The end result will look a lot like this demonstrator from Linköping University:

hqdefault.jpg


2dsrbf8.jpg


If it's built it will be a more stealthy version of the JAS 39, not a radically new airframe... if it's built. Budget problems have been an issue:

AIR_JAS-39_Gripen_Cutaway_lg.jpg


d78e2e7aafa77bd6bddf72b1033cb2fc.jpg


4ec04e6482bb334ecc4a4750196d0146.jpg


If Pakistan can't even buy the existing JAS 39, for political or financial reasons, a fifth generation F2020 is not likely either.
hi congrats on the baby girl.
thats somthing i forgot to mention i was looking at fith gen platforms when talking about the j-31 ,tfx and the fg2020.
also its worth mentioning that saab offerd the gripen but not deal materialised as the gripen contained americain parts and pakistan was still under sanctions at the time. and back in 2004 there were talks but nothing came of it
Sweden Confirm Pakistan wants to buy Gripen Jets

now some users( @Khafee ) here who know thing or to about the gripen whist being evaluated said it was too underpowered and it had not performed well in hot and high climates, and pakistan being hot and high mainly up north the gripen would not suit them. and the f16's coming in from the usa it would not make sense having two differant jets with similar specs.

i like to think the gripen as a sinled engined version of the typhoon.

so if the new fighter will be a stealth varient of the gripen, existing gripen users may take a closer look at the fg2020 as a replacement for the grien as they may have some commonality in terms of some components.
 
hi congrats on the baby girl.
thats somthing i forgot to mention i was looking at fith gen platforms when talking about the j-31 ,tfx and the fg2020.
also its worth mentioning that saab offerd the gripen but not deal materialised as the gripen contained americain parts and pakistan was still under sanctions at the time. and back in 2004 there were talks but nothing came of it
Sweden Confirm Pakistan wants to buy Gripen Jets

now some users( @Khafee ) here who know thing or to about the gripen whist being evaluated said it was too underpowered and it had not performed well in hot and high climates, and pakistan being hot and high mainly up north the gripen would not suit them. and the f16's coming in from the usa it would not make sense having two differant jets with similar specs.

i like to think the gripen as a sinled engined version of the typhoon.

so if the new fighter will be a stealth varient of the gripen, existing gripen users may take a closer look at the fg2020 as a replacement for the grien as they may have some commonality in terms of some components.
from TFX to fg2020 are too futurist kind of projects which are just plans on the drawing panels on few computers in few , countries trying hard to get attention in the world specilly in the jet fighter industry?
it looks good for the sake of technological competition for future.
can be looked into after , 2030 ?
& hope you know usa well & what kind of weather conditions in there are ?
If you have any knowledge about different states in America & their weather conditions you wouldn't have asked , your question in your post regurding gripen & F16s to pakistan.
F16s are highly tested in roughest & toughest conditions all around the world ?

gripen is still a good machine , but it's use in higher mountainous battle fields it's radar hss not much to offer ?
 
Wow let's go where you want ?
Name a Turkish fighter jet develop & produce by TAI ?
&
is or were in use by different or multiple air forces in the world .

If not , please be a fan boy to get more knowledge rather becoming a genius who don't know what he is talking about ?
You think engine manufacturing of a fighter jet , is making a lollipop ?
easy tiger

go easy on our guest. Turkish defense industry is very respectable. like he said the issue is mainly with power plant. not many countries have that capacity yet. China is still struggling in that department. Turkish industry is NATO standard and top notch. look what they made out of A-129 a buffed up beast T-129.. I see the similar genius in them like the Israelis who make good western jets to much better examples are mirages and F-16s.

well this is not the subject here. just saying dont harass people

Turkiye produced over 300 F-16s,48 for Egypt and the rest for the Turkish Airforce from 1985 to 2013/14.
Turkiye has the capability to produce all systems required for a Jet Fighter,engine excluded as posted.

You have a reading problem or what?
I wrote that we cant build an engine(post 238 of this thread).
Dont quote me again,you are not worth it.
you guys also turned A-129 into a very powerful gunship. and did MLU of our F-16s too, please dont be upset thee was some misunderstanding. your contribution is welcome and we hope that we can share out JF-17 knowledge in any future joint programs.
 
It's not going to be a twin-engine platform though. The end result will look a lot like this demonstrator from Linköping University:

hqdefault.jpg


2dsrbf8.jpg


If it's built it will be a more stealthy version of the JAS 39, not a radically new airframe... if it's built. Budget problems have been an issue:

AIR_JAS-39_Gripen_Cutaway_lg.jpg


d78e2e7aafa77bd6bddf72b1033cb2fc.jpg


4ec04e6482bb334ecc4a4750196d0146.jpg


If Pakistan can't even buy the existing JAS 39, for political or financial reasons, a fifth generation F2020 is not likely either.

PAF just like many other air forces, did not buy the Gripen because of financial or political reasons, but because of technical reasons. Without going into details, the under-powered engine is it's biggest drawback.

Regards
 
u are obliged to your mind ?
no problems on that , the brains in pentagon are keen to keep their technology in their hands ?
they did a civil nuclear deal with india did they ask any permissions from pakistan ?
or did they offer us the same deal ?
why not ?
for them , India is a long term asset which they can use if the need comes into action ?
which only means going hot against China or pakistan ?
its a open secret, that if any time in future , china & America confront each other , India will taking part of that deadly assult?

USA sell anything with a lot of aims & objectives in their minds , they wanted pakistan act against tailban's that's why they gave us ,cobras it's nothing with their sell of apacheS to India ?
they want to establish india the power against China ?
for them pakistanS friendship & ties with China can produce a JF thunder , they are not willing to make it super thunder F19 if pakistan has any chance to get their hands F-15s or F-18s ?
you should study frist , the technological gap between them frist then , brushing them in same catalog ?
for their long term military plans it all matters , btw they never sold any high end gadget to pakistan , F-16s cobras not fall into high end gadget catagory to US .
china +russia +Iran are their future opponents , & they think pakistan will follow China in that equation in the future .


god must help you , friend to understand that everything in this world not exists because of India ?lolxx


we live in a ever changing world , every need comes with some reactions ?
If today America just tell pakistan , that they are not willing to give more F-16S then you would be watching , any russian or Chinese twin engine fighter jets buzzing over your head ?

You are combining things that are diametrically different to reach some interesting conclusions.

Pakistan hasn't got an India like nuclear deal simply because of the proliferation activities of the A Q Khan network. It has nothing to do with Pakistan sharing US technology with China. And even then, per numerous reports, the US is willing to overlook that episode & streamline Pakistan into the Nuclear Suppliers Group of it can curb its nuclear program which the West is claiming to be the fastest nuclear program in the planet & roll back on its tactical nukes.

Almost all of India's military is directed against Pakistan. India doesn't have the ability to seriously challenge China. The two countries are technologically & economically vastly different. China is a global power. India is a regional power concerned with competing with nations it's 10x demographically & economically bigger.

India is a lucrative market no doubt for Western defense complex, no doubt. There's no denying this.

About the high tech point. Just go through the equipment that comes with the F-16 sale. If you think they aren't high tech, then there's no point in this conversation
 
You are combining things that are diametrically different to reach some interesting conclusions.

Pakistan hasn't got an India like nuclear deal simply because of the proliferation activities of the A Q Khan network. It has nothing to do with Pakistan sharing US technology with China. And even then, per numerous reports, the US is willing to overlook that episode & streamline Pakistan into the Nuclear Suppliers Group of it can curb its nuclear program which the West is claiming to be the fastest nuclear program in the planet & roll back on its tactical nukes.

Almost all of India's military is directed against Pakistan. India doesn't have the ability to seriously challenge China. The two countries are technologically & economically vastly different. China is a global power. India is a regional power concerned with competing with nations it's 10x demographically & economically bigger.

India is a lucrative market no doubt for Western defense complex, no doubt. There's no denying this.

About the high tech point. Just go through the equipment that comes with the F-16 sale. If you think they aren't high tech, then there's no point in this conversation

US weapons are vastly superior to anything out there. No doubt, that F-16 Blk-52 and associated weapons have pushed PAF many notches above from where it was. In fact, the newly acquired capability was instrumental in our anti terrorist operations in FATA area. There is a reason that Pakistan has shown interest follow on order. Those who use these machines are fully aware of what it can do.

However, some US politicians are over playing their hand when it comes to fulfilling needs of their allies. Take for example AH-1Z deal. Pakistan needed attack helicopters badly in its current operation. Request for AH-1Z remained lying with US for some three years. Pakistan had to turn to Chinese and Russians for its needs before AH-1Z was cleared. This does not invoke confidence and there will always be players eager to bite into US share of defense market. Defense acquisition from US these days takes so much time that some traditional buyers like UAE and KSA have procured Russian and Chinese weapons. Sure they do not equal US quality but then they are half the price and are readily available. Same sentiment was resonated by a US general after he visited Gulf countries. You guys need to make the process simpler and swift. Recent statements of PAF chief indicates that we are negotiating for more F-16s but he says it will take time. Why should it take time for a weapon that is already cleared and sold to Pakistan? There can always be arrangements to ensure sensitive technology is not leaked and I'm sure PAF will agree to reasonable demands. But if it has to wait three years to place an order while India has finalized Rafale deal with France, what confidence does it give to Pakistan? F-16s are beautiful machines and its latest variant 'Viper' can hold its own against Rafale. I'm also pretty sure that deal will eventually go through. What I don't get is initial hesitation in political quarters. Regional balance is already heavily in favor of India. Few F-16s, 15s, 35s aren't going to tilt it on favour of Pakistan. But when provided, they will ensure this region stays away from war triggered by imbalance. Last thing world needs right now is a war between two nuclear neighbors. We already have a lot to deal with in today's world.
 
easy tiger

go easy on our guest. Turkish defense industry is very respectable. like he said the issue is mainly with power plant. not many countries have that capacity yet. China is still struggling in that department. Turkish industry is NATO standard and top notch. look what they made out of A-129 a buffed up beast T-129.. I see the similar genius in them like the Israelis who make good western jets to much better examples are mirages and F-16s.

well this is not the subject here. just saying dont harass people


you guys also turned A-129 into a very powerful gunship. and did MLU of our F-16s too, please dont be upset thee was some misunderstanding. your contribution is welcome and we hope that we can share out JF-17 knowledge in any future joint programs.
Sir,
We were talking about facts here ?
& its a cold fact that with all of their respected advancement in military technology still israelies, or turks can't manufacture a jet fighter by their own ?
Nor they are producing any ?
Hellos are a different ball game , India manufactures them to ?
My post wasnt intended to harass any one ?
I was just stating a fact that , with all of the efforts & they can't produce any fighter by their own , what they were doing is re-making & upgrading F-16s under the supervision & strict guidance of Americans , sure they would have learned more & a lot , I respect it , but still they are unable to produce a fighter jet by their own ?


US weapons are vastly superior to anything out there. No doubt, that F-16 Blk-52 and associated weapons have pushed PAF many notches above from where it was. In fact, the newly acquired capability was instrumental in our anti terrorist operations in FATA area. There is a reason that Pakistan has shown interest follow on order. Those who use these machines are fully aware of what it can do.

However, some US politicians are over playing their hand when it comes to fulfilling needs of their allies. Take for example AH-1Z deal. Pakistan needed attack helicopters badly in its current operation. Request for AH-1Z remained lying with US for some three years. Pakistan had to turn to Chinese and Russians for its needs before AH-1Z was cleared. This does not invoke confidence and there will always be players eager to bite into US share of defense market. Defense acquisition from US these days takes so much time that some traditional buyers like UAE and KSA have procured Russian and Chinese weapons. Sure they do not equal US quality but then they are half the price and are readily available. Same sentiment was resonated by a US general after he visited Gulf countries. You guys need to make the process simpler and swift. Recent statements of PAF chief indicates that we are negotiating for more F-16s but he says it will take time. Why should it take time for a weapon that is already cleared and sold to Pakistan? There can always be arrangements to ensure sensitive technology is not leaked and I'm sure PAF will agree to reasonable demands. But if it has to wait three years to place an order while India has finalized Rafale deal with France, what confidence does it give to Pakistan? F-16s are beautiful machines and its latest variant 'Viper' can hold its own against Rafale. I'm also pretty sure that deal will eventually go through. What I don't get is initial hesitation in political quarters. Regional balance is already heavily in favor of India. Few F-16s, 15s, 35s aren't going to tilt it on favour of Pakistan. But when provided, they will ensure this region stays away from war triggered by imbalance. Last thing world needs right now is a war between two nuclear neighbors. We already have a lot to deal with in today's world.
What a post !super !

PAF just like many other air forces, did not buy the Gripen because of financial or political reasons, but because of technical reasons. Without going into details, the under-powered engine is it's biggest drawback.

Regards
As I have seen them perform in Thailand , it works fine her on the sea , but I have nice discussions with its pilots , they are not much confident about its role in a war .

You are combining things that are diametrically different to reach some interesting conclusions.

Pakistan hasn't got an India like nuclear deal simply because of the proliferation activities of the A Q Khan network. It has nothing to do with Pakistan sharing US technology with China. And even then, per numerous reports, the US is willing to overlook that episode & streamline Pakistan into the Nuclear Suppliers Group of it can curb its nuclear program which the West is claiming to be the fastest nuclear program in the planet & roll back on its tactical nukes.

Almost all of India's military is directed against Pakistan. India doesn't have the ability to seriously challenge China. The two countries are technologically & economically vastly different. China is a global power. India is a regional power concerned with competing with nations it's 10x demographically & economically bigger.

India is a lucrative market no doubt for Western defense complex, no doubt. There's no denying this.

About the high tech point. Just go through the equipment that comes with the F-16 sale. If you think they aren't high tech, then there's no point in this conversation
Do you ever know how many american companies were working with DR.AQ khan & what happened to them ?
no you don't ?
& we can have a discussion that what Pakistan is getting in form of defence package is a carefully planned & timed listed medium tech gadgetory , which only directed towards anti-terrorism activities of pak armed forces in general ?
It wasnt supplied for Pakistan s external security ?
Its not for ensuring Pakistan safety in war against India , we have fought in kargill & seen these stupid showpieces called F-16s shut down , when we need them backing up our heads ?
So my friend , sorry we Pakistanis are out of 80s fantasy top gun world of USA & we want our govt our military ensuring the top gadgets to save us from any external & internal aggression from any one India or India +NATO ?
Indian civil nuclear deal was a doccumented agreement of CIA , s indoor tour to Indian nuclear facilities nothing more ?
& we won't allow that , but we use that as the leverage in talks with Washington , which they know they can't afford ?
I just want to state that , dam F-16 era is gone , & we are looking beyond that .
 
PAF just like many other air forces, did not buy the Gripen because of financial or political reasons, but because of technical reasons. Without going into details, the under-powered engine is it's biggest drawback.

Regards
I think the polite NO might also have had something to do with it. PAF would have gained nothing by inducting the Gripen with the JFT coming on line. It is not without reason that the Gripen look at us as competition.
A
 

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