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What then Mr PM?

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Why do you smell like a cow piss drinker? I tell you what
I Pakistani living in Maryland, your all post doesn't make little sense to me, you lack a commonsense/ logic @omegalamba7XL9 :crazy::crazy::crazy:

I gave you a verse a clear verse from holy Quran not my words and your argument is it black and white. You see how you loose ground when being pacifist that you see it in plain writing a verse from holy Quran and you are trying to twist it or make it grayish when it's you who brought the examples of Islam not me.
your Quarnic verses proves you you knows nothing about the history of Islam, our Prophet (PBUH) started those war where no options lefts and we have the option lefts though backdoor diplomacy,and Pakistan labeled as terrorist supporter country, aggression on IOK/India further strengthen this label and last you have to consider billions of lives in the subcontinent in our hands @omegalamba7XL9
 
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Another thread which is testament to our collective national character of being reactionary. Maybe this is because our people are unaware of changing world and overestimate own strength and cannot comprehend the intricate solutions of the problems.

PTI has mishandled almost everything out of their own incompetence however on issue of Kashmir no such international uproar was created before.

Look at the people who used to be champion of Kashmir in PMLn or PPP era and you can understand how much they cared about this issue.
 
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So what should we do, any suggestions @omegalamba7XL9 attack India/IOK and doom @omegalamba7XL9

I get where Khan and the PTI are coming from, maybe they want to focus on the economy and make things better here and I agree with that but my perception is that like in 1962 when we did nothing we'll eventually be faced with the consequences as we were in 1965.

What I would do is fund and arm those groups fighting for Kashmir's reintegration with Pakistan and the freedom of our peoples.

What's typically referred to as Operational Gibraltar was a resounding success. The problem at the time was that India opened up fronts against Sialkot and Lahore to divert fighting out of Kashmir which lead to the 1965 war.

Pakistan's main problem in 1965 was that retaliatory action against Mumbai and Delhi were difficult much the same as it was for India to target Karachi since they were further away from the border. That's not the case anymore, if India opens up fronts against bordering cities we'll simply bomb their major cities.

Once the fighting kicks off India has two options at that point, continue to confine the conflict in Kashmir or do what they did in 1965 and expand the fighting in hopes of getting Pakistan to back off.

India's problems are compounded by a few more stark realities, our population grew much faster than India's after 1971 as did our military and its budget along with our economy such that their economy went from being 10x larger to only about 6x or 7x larger now. Even that is up for question as I am of the strong opinion that India has fabricated a lot of their economic growth story. I have also said this time and again Pakistan's economy can grow much faster and should already have left the rest of the subcontinent behind.

If fighting is confined to Kashmir they'll lose. Public sentiment within the valley and wider Kashmir has probably never been as anti India as it is today and the fairy tale the Abdullah's and losers in the JKLF have been feeding the public is over. Furthermore I don't understand what you believe an inept 3rd world army like India's would do against modern tactics and strategies successfully deployed against a better equipped NATO whose soldiers are far better educated and trained?

If fighting is expanded to target our cities like they did in 1965 we'll target Delhi and Mumbai.

I personally am not advocating fighting for Kashmir's independence. My great grandmother from my moms side and grandmother from my dad's side are Kashmiri, I recall reading one estimate years back that stated about half of Punjab has family that comes from Kashmir. My view has always been Kashmir and its people are Pakistani's those who don't feel that way should have been stripped of citizenship and shipped off like many libtard trash in Pakistan that insult the memory of Jinnah, Liaquat Ali Khan and the other members of the Muslim League or lie about our nations history and Islamic ideology.

Please do not expect any thing from this government, they are slaves same as Zardari and Nawaz with only new packing to deceive our public, They will only protect US and his interest and US interests are same as Indians.

I wouldn't go so far as calling Khan and the PTI slaves but I personally think they're making the same mistakes previous civilian and even military governments have made.

In 1962 we had the perfect opportunity to liberate Kashmir, we didn't take it. JK Galbraith, US' foreign ambassador to India at the time, confirmed that the US to put pressure on Pakistan not to wage war on India as it was fighting China. In the end we wound up fighting India in 1965 and the Mutual Defence Assistance Act of 1954 was as worthless a toilet paper in fact the US turned around and placed sanctions on Pakistan.

Then again in the 90s Benazir turned on the Sikhs fight for freedom.

We're given ample opportunities to retake Kashmir or at the very least continue to weaken India's hold but never do much. Those who take bold decisive steps are criticized while the losers that do nothing are applauded by the very people that hate Pakistan and should have been stripped of citizenship long ago.

It's not that they're slaves, we simply have a collection of fools that run our military and government and despite the outright treason of the Bhuttos and even the disgusting crimes of the Sharif's they continue to do walk around and seemingly do whatever they want while patriots are put in jail because our enemies don't like them.
 
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.... So you are saying Pakistan is so weak and fragile that it will be no more after fighting with India???
انا لله وانا إليه راجعون.
first our crippling economy doesn't sustain any war much longer, and there will be billions of lives of the subcontinent in our hands @imadul :crazy::crazy:
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Another thread which is testament to our collective national character of being reactionary.
PTI has mishandled almost everything out of their own incompetence however on issue of Kashmir no such international uproar was created before.

PTI does a lot of things right and many things they're either very slow on or are doing wrong.

For example, I've made it clear that the main hindrance to increased tax compliance and collection is funding for the FBR. My estimates suggest that it has been chronically underfunded and is short anywhere from 500-1400% of what its budget should be so it doesn't have the money to hire the staff, purchase the equipment and buy the third party services it needs to enforce compliance of the laws on top of which Pakistan made a mistake reducing tariffs and signing FTA's particularly with China which were large sources of tax revenues for Pakistan. The PTI doesn't seem to have addressed this issue.

However, I am a big proponent of the Naya Pakistan Housing Program, in fact I've been advocating for large scale affordable housing to meet Pakistan's chronic housing shortage which itself would likely triple our economic growth. I'm glad to see someone in government finally advocating for it.

On the issue of how to handle Kashmir I don't agree with the PTI or your views on the matter. However, we don't know if there are plans in the works that we're not privy too.

Look at the massacre of Rohingya in Myanmar, the world has done little to nothing about it. For all of the Dhali Llama's campaigning globally, how much he is liked and adored in the US having photo op after photo op with different American presidents and celebrities not to mention the delusions people have about life in Tibet before China (i.e. everyone seems to ignore the Llama class treated everyone else in the country as serfs or slaves) what have they actually done to assist the Tibetan peoples? Little to nothing.

At the end of the day if you're expecting any kind of serious pressure from the "international community" forget it.

Just like Pakistan stood by against its own interests in 1962 at the behest of nations like the US we will face the consequences as we did in 1965. We must not repeat past mistakes of listening to the "international community" that stands by and does nothing.

we have the option lefts though backdoor diplomacy

Apparently you didn't read the statements of Pakistan's own Provincial Information and Culture Minister Syed Sumsam Ali Bukhari who stated the PTI doesn't believe in discussions behind closed doors.
https://tribune.com.pk/story/2003089/1-pti-not-believe-backdoor-diplomacy/

I personally applaud that as I don't believe in it either.

Pakistan labeled as terrorist supporter country, aggression on IOK/India further strengthen this label and last you have to consider billions of lives in the subcontinent in our hands

Why should we care what anyone else thinks?

China went to war with the US twice by sending troops into North Korea and later Vietnam.

India funded, armed and trained Mukti Bahani terrorists.

The US funds, arms and trains YPG terrorists in Syria despite their own NATO partner Turkey fighting against the group and having outlawed it.

Russians are actively supporting terrorists in Ukraine.

My view is simple, Kashmir is our land and the Kashmiri's our people. Trying to garner support from a world of hypocrites and liars is foolish.
 
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Why should we care what anyone else thinks?

China went to war with the US twice by sending troops into North Korea and later Vietnam.

India funded, armed and trained Mukti Bahani terrorists.

The US funds, arms and trains YPG terrorists in Syria despite their own NATO partner Turkey fighting against the group and having outlawed it.

Russians are actively supporting terrorists in Ukraine.

My view is simple, Kashmir is our land and the Kashmiri's our people. Trying to garner support from a world of hypocrites and liars is foolish.
You want to destroy Pakistan if there will be no Pakistan then what for Kashmir issue
and those wars you refer fought not directly between USA/China, Russia these wars were indirect face off helping their opponents with military equipment/ $$$ etc etc @PakPrinciples
 
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Dumb kids first crying no one talks about Kashmir, now that IK is highlighting Kashmir, dumb kids say it wont do anything. Nothing happens overnight kids.
When asked what is the solution, they want to use force? What would happen if military action fails????
The same way no one opposes india, in war no one will help us and the US, Europe, Israel, iran all will help india. So tell me dumb kids what if military action fails???? What then??? Does ur peanut sized brain comprehend anything after that??? Have u forgotten the embarrassment of 71??? Or its too old and u want a new embarrassment??? Allah in Quran times and again advises "sabar" for momins. Go play video games, this is beyond u.
:agree: :tup: :tup:

I think that many of the Pakistanis are not ready to digest this fact that Pakistan armed forces don't have the strength and resources, adequate enough for initiating any purposeful offensive venture against India. Defense is altogether a different thing and can be carried out with far less military strength, for which Pakistan is ready. In either case, a conventional war, would most probably end into a stalemate, as happened in 1965. Of course, our military leaders are well aware of this fact. Hence, the restraint.
Absolutely.

I am an advocate of aggressive Pakistani posture in regards to recent Indian moves in IOK. However, I would like to highlight a few problems as well.

WE are not in the position to fight a war unless our own house is in order. WE need to fix internal rot and make our economy functional (escape FATF). And WE need to internationalize IOK to the best of our ability; WE need powerful allies.

Never ever fight a war without solid preparation and support structures in place.
 
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I am an advocate of aggressive Pakistani posture in regards to recent Indian moves in IOK. However, I would like to highlight a few problems as well.

WE are not in the position to fight a war unless our own house is in order. WE need to fix internal rot and make our economy functional (escape FATF). And WE need to internationalize IOK to the best of our ability; WE need powerful allies.

Never ever fight a war without solid preparation and support structures in place.

Fully agree.
 
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How u explain Quran is like al qaeda and ISIS does. Take a verse without context and directly order killing of everyone.
Funny how sitting abroad among kafirs eating their food n having that money and sending poor pakistanis to war. The way u explain ur love for war and then say im not a warmongers only shows ur hypocrisy and delusions. War is an ugly thing, come n bring ur kids n face war. You also dont know ground realities of Pakistan. Warmongers like u actually are emotional and dont think with brain. So emotional speeches and fantasy doesnt count in reality.
You are such a hypocrite. Go through the whole thread I didmt bring in religion and nor did any other member before you started with lecturing about sabr and how Allah asks us to do Sabr. And when I counter you with word of holy Quran you are calling me ISIS and AQ. Aren't you the one who brought religion into this discussion? You aman ka tamssha liberals have no morals you start something and when countered with arguments then you start calling names like a loser because you have nothing else to say.
 
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Regarding economy well here is a little history lesson
1.Battle of Badr Quraiysh big economy big power big army vs Muslims of Medina small army small economy and lack of resources guess who came out victorious.
2. Muslim VS Persians
Persians were super power and Muslims with smaller army smaller economy overcame them
3. Muslims vs Roman's
Romans big advanced army big economy vs muslims smaller economy outdated military compare to Romans well guess what was the result?
4. Mongols vs Calphiate of Baghdad
Mongols with no economy defeated the super power of the world why because better economy made super power lazy too lazy to self defend.
5 . Ww2 Germny smaller economy smaller army kicks *** of combined army of three counties Britian France and Belgium.
6. Vietnam Vs USA
US big enonmy nuclear power most advanced army on the planet vs Viet cong and army of third world country guess who won?
7. Afghanistan VS Soviet Union
Soviet Union another super power of the time vs rag tag soldiers in Afghanistan with no economy guess who came out victorious.
And then recent events of Afghanistan as well.
So these lectures about better economy before starting a war is a myth just a myth. It's a day dream that Indians have fed you because its they who talk about big economy = winner in actual war.
 
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Yes you will go to UN give a great speech but it wont be better than Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto UN speech and even that speech didnt accomplish anything so what will your speech ac accomplish?
Would UN pass a resolution against India? Put sanctions on India? Can you get unanimously approved resolution in UN?Do you think India dont have friends?
Your lectures about internatoinalizng Kashmir and diplomacy wont accomplish nothing as they didnt accomplish anything as of yet. It's almost 50 days curfew still there and you the mighty leader giving lectures.
Let's see what kind of marvel you ac accomplish on 27th.
You and many people are naive if you think you can hurt India diplomatically because fact is Israel is with India and therefore US will stand with India.
Israeli PM promising it's people full fledge Zionist state without giving a F about world.
Modi's India is preparing their youth and training them for conflict.
So both of our enemies are preparing their people and over here our dear PM is giving is Fucking lectures.
I wonder if you are sincere about Kashmir because here is a reality.
1. When joint Parliament session was about to happen regarding Kashmir Maryam Nawaz gets arrested and it becomes the news and the spirit of United voice was undermined. Who did it and why at that particular day. She couldve been arrested two days later or so but no same day.
2. Yesterday another Kashmir related session well guess what Kurshid shah gets arrested and it became headline instead of Kashmir issue.
3. Air space for that country is still open who have locked everything for my people and you lecture.
4. Trade for medical supplies is important for you when medical supplies in Kashmir is running out.
Let me give you a prediction about future
A Maybe you will deliver a good speech which will give you nice satisfaction a little limelight and then nothing. It will be a great moment for you but for Kashmiri it's of no use.
Learn from Raja Farooq Haider he got more courage than you and speaks from his heart not a script as you did on Torkham border. Your ministers are incompetent and bunch of Jokers and you are starting to embarrass Pakistan which you promised that you wont let Pakistan do.
And regarding those on pdf who will be jumping down my throat and closing my thread well guess what I dont care I will write again and again and again until i see current GOP take the right course.
Woh apni b*nd paish karde India ko
 
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Yup you know everything cant counter so therefore I have to be affiliated with some party. No PTI tatto I'm not Zardari or Nawaz follower. My only Pakistani true leader is Muhammad Ali Jinnah. So I'm his follower. Look at you don't you think or feel stupid before calling someone tatto of someone just because they question certain things? Same thing patwaris and PPP corrupt people say if you question them so I assume you are a zombie too just like them and therefore no different then them start calling names when you cant answer questions.
Let me ask you a question Can you please name one accomplishment of this govt in regards to Kashmir issue? Any change in situation on the ground? Is it about Kashmiri people or is it dick measuring competition on international forum?
Please answer my question. Thanks


Yup way I'm doing better job than some of these ministers in his cabinet who instead of doing their job are tweeting about journalists and calling them drunk.


If someone grabs you from you throat what will you do? In there lies the answer to your question.
Bhai . Yaar you are getting emotional . Easy countries nai chalti . Aur bhai phir Kiya karay , let's say we fight ! Then what . We have lobbies inside our country who will oppose our actions. Our nation will stand against our forces like it happened with US in Vietnam ! . I mean is that what you want ? . So emotional na ho bhai .
 
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