What role could PAF have played in the Kargil war??

[prashantazazel]

The sad part is India has learnt nothing from the Kargil debacle.

You mean we shouldn't trust you or your diplomacy?

 

[OrionHunter]

@hellfire, well argued! I liked the way you trashed @Abu Zolfiqar who seems drowned in the false propaganda dished out by the ISPR and Pak 'experts' on their Kargil debacle.

This guy is unaware of what his own Pak general Kayani, erstwhile GOC X Corps, said in an interview. He admitted that the PA was forced to withdraw under the tremendous barrages unleashed from the Bofors guns, something never seen during any preceding war!

And the coup de grace was when Gen Kayani mentioned that Nawaz rushed to the US to stop the war as 'PAKISTAN FAUJ KI IZZAT KA SWAL HAI!' Meaning the PA were getting battered and thus he begged Clinton to ask the Indians to cease fire immediately to avoid further embarrassment!

This especially after the PA saw their Mantho Dhalo logistics base smashed to smithereens by IAF Mirages. With no supplies - food, ammo, water, spares - the condition of the PA troops was precarious. Casualties were mounting and Nawaz needed to get the hell out of Kargil before it turned into a complete disaster.

 

[Butchcassidy]

I swear, this one self declared Ex-Military professional makes statements that give a bad name to real Pak.Army professionals!!!

I once posted some article that was in plain english, and it made no sense to this "Professional"

Thats the beauty of online forums, you can be anyone u want to be

 

[dadeechi]

You mean we shouldn't trust you or your diplomacy?

Empty diplomacy would never work. It needs to be backed up.

 

[Windjammer]

What pride you are taking? Did your PAF killed them?

Anyways tell me did IAF let them lynched by PAF (must called GAF (Grounded)) genius?

How much pride your PAF instill in your head when your men were lynched and PAF guys were smoking cigar?

And you are comparing an army who is ready to die for country with an airforce who didn't fly? Hilarious you are

My oh my, the hunting pack is out in force again except the usual flea pickers now some a$$ licker have also joined the pack....and so called professionals at that,
Right since you are running around like a headless chicken, let me ask you, what pride do you have when your so called Agni pankh needed US and Israeli assistance to carry out missions within it's own territory, first acquire the moral and ability to fight your own wars, you claim, we intruded into your territory and slaughtered hundred of your soldiers, what stopped you from carrying out strikes into our territory, hell, you have a whole volume written on your wishful list, from CSD to cross border raids, surgical strikes, hot pursuits and what not.....if only there was tax on dreaming. We took the war to you and despite all the chest thumping , be bit in 1999....2002....or 2008, the flame in your fire fly turned out to be just smoke that feeds the Indian habits. Have you forgotten how despite thousands of IAF sorties into Sri Lanka, how you still ended up with a bloody nose. We are indeed proud of our PAF since it repeatedly managed to soundly beat a much larger air force, it has several intact trophies to prove that (BTW, Gnat wasn't the only IAF aircraft to surrender to PAF)....but hey i guess you too have the right to feel proud of your fire fly....after all how many air forces in the world can lay claims to shooting down a balloon.

That is because your ill informed, the casualty numbers are attributed to cross border shelling, counter terror ops and mine clearance. and please do not lecture us about fighting, it sounds rather callous coming from nation with track record of the largest unilateral surrender since wwII.

And i believe that's what i emphasised on in my post but i guess the Indian TT is proving his credentials by habitually running back to 1971 to salvage some pride, for the same effort, you can run back to 1965 or 1962 or even 1947 or simply jump into the Ganges and grab on to some skeletons.

@hellfire, well argued! I liked the way you trashed @Abu Zolfiqar who seems drowned in the false propaganda dished out by the ISPR and Pak 'experts' on their Kargil debacle.

This guy is unaware of what his own Pak general Kayani, erstwhile GOC X Corps, said in an interview. He admitted that the PA was forced to withdraw under the tremendous barrages unleashed from the Bofors guns, something never seen during any preceding war!

And the coup de grace was when Gen Kayani mentioned that Nawaz rushed to the US to stop the war as 'PAKISTAN FAUJ KI IZZAT KA SWAL HAI!' Meaning the PA were getting battered and thus he begged Clinton to ask the Indians to cease fire immediately to avoid further embarrassment!

This especially after the PA saw their Mantho Dhalo logistics base smashed to smithereens by IAF Mirages. With no supplies - food, ammo, water, spares - the condition of the PA troops was precarious. Casualties were mounting and Nawaz needed to get the hell out of Kargil before it turned into a complete disaster.

@OrionHunter , welcome back dude. talk about Kargil and some Indian member will crop up with the above image but ironically, you never ever hear or see any mention of other images from the same conflict. I guess as Brian Cloughley wrote, ''Indians wanted to be assured of a victory and every effort was made to provide that victory by the slavishly supportive Indian media''.... suffice to say Indian media will never touch the other side of the picture(s).

Pak artillery strikes Indian Army barracks. 4 June 1999

Indian supply road comes under Pakistani shelling. The capture of different strategic Indian posts had cut off road to Siachen glacier.

Smoke rises from Indian Doordarshan television relay center in Kargil after getting hit by Pakistani Artillery shelling. 1 June 1999

 

[nair]

This thread and general conversation resembles that of the situation on facebook after that Gorilla was killed.

Why this thread????? You go to any thread on kargil, you would find the discussion to be the same...... I did check few threads couple of months back, same arguments, same you tube videos, and pcitures...

 

[-xXx-]

My oh my, the hunting pack is out in force again except the usual flea pickers now some a$$ licker have also joined the pack....and so called professionals at that,
Right since you are running around like a headless chicken, let me ask you, what pride do you have when your so called Agni pankh needed US and Israeli assistance to carry out missions within it's own territory, first acquire the moral and ability to fight your own wars, you claim, we intruded into your territory and slaughtered hundred of your soldiers, what stopped you from carrying out strikes into our territory, hell, you have a whole volume written on your wishful list, from CSD to cross border raids, surgical strikes, hot pursuits and what not.....if only there was tax on dreaming. We took the war to you and despite all the chest thumping , be bit in 1999....2002....or 2008, the flame in your fire fly turned out to be just smoke that feeds the Indian habits. Have you forgotten how despite thousands of IAF sorties into Sri Lanka, how you still ended up with a bloody nose. We are indeed proud of our PAF since it repeatedly managed to soundly beat a much larger air force, it has several intact trophies to prove that (BTW, Gnat wasn't the only IAF aircraft to surrender to PAF)....but hey i guess you too have the right to feel proud of your fire fly....after all how many air forces in the world can lay claims to shooting down a balloon.

1- We are talking about Kargil and Grounded Air Force genius. Stick on topic.

2- And taking assistance is no shame in a war, not flying is shame.

3- India decide not to invade you but take back our own territory. Not invading a failed nation is no shame.

4- I will support you taking pride in PAF for 65, not in grounded air force in 99.

5- Dont respond for sake of responding. Talk sense.

PS: Dont ask for something you can not bear (India invading and so so). History must have educated you, apparently not.

 

[Hellfire]

The sad part is India has learnt nothing from the Kargil debacle.

Very true!!!! We are on the same path ... reinventing the wheel!

 

[OrionHunter]

@OrionHunter , welcome back dude. talk about Kargil and some Indian member will crop up with the above image but ironically, you never ever hear or see any mention of other images from the same conflict. I guess as Brian Cloughley wrote, ''Indians wanted to be assured of a victory and every effort was made to provide that victory by the slavishly supportive Indian media''.... suffice to say Indian media will never touch the other side of the picture(s).

Windy! Propaganda through media is part of the war effort on both sides. No side is immune from the effects of war and cannot come out unscathed. As Walter Lippmann said:

"We must remember that in time of war what is said on the enemy’s side of the front is always propaganda, and what is said on our side of the front is truth and righteousness, the cause of humanity and a crusade for peace."

That's a universal law mostly propagated by the media.

 

[Tajdar adil]

PAF not involve in Kargil because IAF have bvr capability in kargil war

 

[raazh]

Pakistan narrative was that it is freedom fighters who are fighting on their own and not being supported by us.
Indian narrative was that it is Pakistan Army which has crossed the border and occupied their land.

So PAF had no role in it. In fact the question should be that if according to India it was Pakistan Army that has occupied their territory then IAF should have crossed the border and attached Pakistani forward bases and other high value targets. But as we all know .. they didnt have the _____ to cross the border .. Oh wait .. sorry .. two Migs did cross .. the rest we all know ..

 

[Windjammer]

1- We are talking about Kargil and Grounded Air Force genius. Stick on topic.

What, don't like the taste of your own medicine, get use to it sunshine, In your brilliant mind, if the topic is grounded air force then take a good look at the operational level of your MKIs to understand the term.

2- And taking assistance is no shame in a war, not flying is shame.

To seek assistance to fight a country less than a third of your size, obviously you are past the verge of shame i guess.

3- India decide not to invade you but take back our own territory. Not invading a failed nation is no shame.

I guess that's why China enters your territory at will and withdraws thinking what a helpless bunch of losers Indian are as a nation....

4- I will support you taking pride in PAF for 65, not in grounded air force in 99.

It was a local conflict and all the fighting took place on the Indian side, If PAF was grounded then it should have been a walk over for the IA and IAF....what stopped them attacking targets on the Pakistani side of the border....!!

5- Dont respond for sake of responding. Talk sense.

Remember you people even with fake IDs come here to learn.

PS: Dont ask for something you can not bear (India invading and so so). History must have educated you, apparently not.

Keeping in mind that even then you needed Muktis to assist you, ever wondered how many insurgencies are happening in India today.

 

[SSGcommandoPAK]

Since PAF was not involved in the Kargil war, and that put our soldiers in very grave danger since they didn't have the Airsupport and IAF was bombing our solider's positions with BVR missiles and causing heavy casualties.



So, in a hypothetical scenario if PAF was actually involved in that war (and taken into confidence during the planning/execution stages and assigned a role), what role could they have played?? Could they have provided the Pak soliders with solid air cover or not? I doubt they could have engaged themselves in air to air combat with IAF planes (which remember were BVR enabled) and PAF planes was not. But still limiting the PAF role to basically nothing and letting them see our positions getting bombed was a suicide move . They should've been assigned some role in that war.



So what role the PAF could have played considering the fact that they lacked the BVR technology ?? was IAF having the BVR tech. the deciding factor in PAF not getting involved or what?



Also could PAF having the BVR tech. have changed the fate of that war??

 

[MilSpec]

And i believe that's what i emphasised on in my post but i guess the Indian TT is proving his credentials by habitually running back to 1971 to salvage some pride, for the same effort, you can run back to 1965 or 1962 or even 1947 or simply jump into the Ganges and grab on to some skeletons.

Well when the habitual Troll invokes 2002, I can pay back in kind.

Just Look up at the 2002 stand off to enlighten your self....you will get your answer, nearly a thousand Indian soldiers killed for pussyfooting on the border for a whole year .....without moving an inch.

 

[Windjammer]

Well when the habitual Troll invokes 2002, I can pay back in kind.

My bad, i forgot an Indian TT's only speciality is to solicit for his country fellows....makes the pack look more original.