What PA recovered from small town.

[WAJsal]

Police and rangers are working together.

not my ques is provincial govt planning the operation

 

[haviZsultan]

Good work by the army. However we must ask where the weaponry and training of the terrorists is coming from. To ability to wage war for 15 more years. That is a scary part and it is even more foreboding when you realize this is only from one agency. In the others similar things are taking place.

These murderous terrorists are building bombs and all kinds of weapons and we have let them survive so long. Forget north waziristan, attacks are still common even in south Waziristan where 60% of all Taliban are made up of Mehsuds. We need to take action and punish the terrorists but we do not do anything against many terrorists residing in Pakistan, for example Malik Ishaq

 

[VCheng]

PA would soon need to start an operation in Pakistani cities to flush the terrorists from their urban hide outs. Unless terrorists have been rooted out completely; given time they will resurface. There being no dearth of illiterate young men willing to blow themselves up on the promise of going straight to heaven.

You bring up a valid point. An Army engaging in urban guerrilla warfare in its own cities is as good as defeated.

 

[SQ8]

I think the PPP government is doing a good job in Karachi in that department.

The PPP(P) government has nothing to do with what the Rangers are doing. In fact the rather narrow approach taken by the Rangers has left most non terror related or certain ethnicity related gangs operating freely.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

And that is going to be much more bloody as compared to fighting in mountains... door to door urban combat is something the Americans dread.

@Oscar; your post is rather confusing.....
This is what @niaz sahab said: "PA would soon need to start an operation in Pakistani cities to flush the terrorists from their urban hide outs. Unless terrorists have been rooted out completely; given time they will resurface. There being no dearth of illiterate young men willing to blow themselves up on the promise of going straight to heaven."

Source: What PA recovered from small town. | Page 2

So where do the Americans come in here? He said that the PA will need to start the OPS in Pakistani cities. Wiil the Americans do that on behalf of the PA??

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar; your post is rather confusing.....
This is what @niaz sahab said: "PA would soon need to start an operation in Pakistani cities to flush the terrorists from their urban hide outs. Unless terrorists have been rooted out completely; given time they will resurface. There being no dearth of illiterate young men willing to blow themselves up on the promise of going straight to heaven."

Source: What PA recovered from small town. | Page 2

So where do the Americans come in here? He said that the PA will need to start the OPS in Pakistani cities. Wiil the Americans do that on behalf of the PA??

The Americans come in as an example. Their experience in Iraq show that Urban fighting is no pushover regardless of the artificial nature of the terrain. Not just them, the Israelis have had their goose cooked as such as well in Gaza and Lebanon.

Even the Allies and Germans back in WW2 found that carpet bombed cities reduced to rubble still were a dangerous battlefield to be in. And the PA cannot take the risk of additional backlash from a free hand at collateral damage that follows a destroyed apartment building.

However, I am sceptical if the PA will ever officially go into a proper "operation" in the cities. Rather they may come in as 911 calls to assist local law enforcement(which will be beefed up) for the task. Casualties however will be higher in that case as training along with battle hardiness will matter in those confines.

 

[surya kiran]

The Americans come in as an example. Their experience in Iraq show that Urban fighting is no pushover regardless of the artificial nature of the terrain. Not just them, the Israelis have had their goose cooked as such as well in Gaza and Lebanon.

Even the Allies and Germans back in WW2 found that carpet bombed cities reduced to rubble still were a dangerous battlefield to be in. And the PA cannot take the risk of additional backlash from a free hand at collateral damage that follows a destroyed apartment building.

However, I am sceptical if the PA will ever officially go into a proper "operation" in the cities. Rather they may come in as 911 calls to assist local law enforcement(which will be beefed up) for the task. Casualties however will be higher in that case as training along with battle hardiness will matter in those confines.

Tactically, special unit should be raised to deal with cities, since the entire objective is minimum damage to surroundings. Also, weapons will need to be for close support and armoured cars with more of top armour in case they are used.

Not to mention surveillance devices used will need to be smaller. Units will also need to learn to use close proximity monitoring devices. They will need to re-learn from large area domincation to local domination.

 

[SQ8]

Tactically, special unit should be raised to deal with cities, since the entire objective is minimum damage to surroundings. Also, weapons will need to be for close support and armoured cars with more of top armour in case they are used.

Not to mention surveillance devices used will need to be smaller. Units will also need to learn to use close proximity monitoring devices. They will need to re-learn from large area domincation to local domination.

There are currently areas in karachi, which while not terrorist are gang controlled and where law enforcement dares not go into.
The simple reason is that every rooftop is armed in some cases with heavy weapons. Moreover, and rather much more disturbingly the people of the neighbourhood provide support to the gang because the gang delivers in general to the basic needs(water, power) of the area as compared to the government.
But lastly, there is little surveillance of the area that has been carried out simply because local law enforcement is still stuck in the 19th century.

 

[A1Kaid]

Would you buy land in tribal areas?

If development takes hold then people would. I've already advocated starting of professionally trained and managed firearms industry in Darra Adam Khel by providing government subsidies. That will bring many jobs to the area, higher wages, higher profit earnings. The area will take a lot of work to
improve.

 

[surya kiran]

There are currently areas in karachi, which while not terrorist are gang controlled and where law enforcement dares not go into.
The simple reason is that every rooftop is armed in some cases with heavy weapons. Moreover, and rather much more disturbingly the people of the neighbourhood provide support to the gang because the gang delivers in general to the basic needs(water, power) of the area as compared to the government.
But lastly, there is little surveillance of the area that has been carried out simply because local law enforcement is still stuck in the 19th century.

Then, what you guys need is a political will power to shut these. Encounters. Mumbai Police isthyle! First capture, then shoot them while they try to run (I am laughing rocket style from guardians of the galaxy)....if you know what i mean. Put the scare of the bullet in their brains. Daane daane pe likha hotha hai khane wale ka naam....goli goli pe likha hotha hai marne waale ka naam.

 

[SQ8]

Then, what you guys need is a political will power to shut these. Encounters. Mumbai Police isthyle! First capture, then shoot them while they try to run (I am laughing rocket style from guardians of the galaxy)....if you know what i mean. Put the scare of the bullet in their brains. Daane daane pe likha hotha hai khane wale ka naam....goli goli pe likha hotha hai marne waale ka naam.

Well here is the difference(and my Indian friends were more than perturbed at this). Here you are not dealing with guys with "Tamanchas" and small arms. In some cases these guys have been found(and I am not exaggerating or making this up..but this is at face value)..with M-16s,PKM, M-240s.. Grenade Launchers, RPGs, INSAS(lots came in during the early 90s and are still around) .. and Even Tavors and Galils(how the heck did those get into the system is beyond the debate on this thread). This is a well supplied army in terms of the gangs and the law enforcement is currently ill equipped to do what you state.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

And no need to have false flags. Even a 5 word sentence gives away Indians considering how typical their mentality is.

His father might have been an evil Pakistani..

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Well here is the difference(and my Indian friends were more than perturbed at this). Here you are not dealing with guys with "Tamanchas" and small arms. In some cases these guys have been found(and I am not exaggerating or making this up..but this is at face value)..with M-16s,PKM, M-240s.. Grenade Launchers, RPGs, INSAS(lots came in during the early 90s and are still around) .. and Even Tavors and Galils(how the heck did those get into the system is beyond the debate on this thread). This is a well supplied army in terms of the gangs and the law enforcement is currently ill equipped to do what you state.

Sobs have uploaded videos of themselves on YT showing off their weapons... As for the weapons even HMGs and UBGLs have been recovered from them..

 

[surya kiran]

Well here is the difference(and my Indian friends were more than perturbed at this). Here you are not dealing with guys with "Tamanchas" and small arms. In some cases these guys have been found(and I am not exaggerating or making this up..but this is at face value)..with M-16s,PKM, M-240s.. Grenade Launchers, RPGs, INSAS(lots came in during the early 90s and are still around) .. and Even Tavors and Galils(how the heck did those get into the system is beyond the debate on this thread). This is a well supplied army in terms of the gangs and the law enforcement is currently ill equipped to do what you state.

Which is why, then, it is all the more important to have the will power to take the fight to them. Pull them out of their houses, arrest them and send them to their doom. There is a long term cost to be paid in terms of human rights abuses trials by jholawalas. But, the only thing which can solve this is ruthless police action backed by political will. The politicians have to back the cops to pull the trigger, because, its the cops who are putting their lives on the line. And believe me, there is no bigger goonda than the policeman when he is given the powers.

 

[syedali73]

Number of casualties is meaningless as most of those killed are foot soldiers. Showing recovered arms & ammunition may be good for PR but it hardly matters. Equipment can always be replaced as there are plenty foreign anti-Pakistan agencies as well as individual financiers in Pakistan & the neighbouring countries. It is the end result that counts. There has been a significant reduction in number of terrorist’s attacks inside Pakistan since the Zarbe Azb started. That means that terrorist network has definitely weakened forcing leaders to go underground.

It does not take much for the leaders of the terrorist organizations to disappear in the large cities such as Quetta, Lahore, and Multan etc. Karachi in particular has very large population of all ethnicities and terrorist can easily find safe haven with their relations settled in Karachi.

PML-N support has always been reluctant. Despite their anti-terrorism rhetoric; JUI & JI are against it. I have not yet been able to understand Taliban Khans’ love for TTP but because of it, PTI has never declared its wholehearted support for Zarbe Azb. KPK gov’t condemns “whosoever carried out the bombing” but never dares to condemn Taliban by name. This indicates that Pakistani politicians lack the spine & the will to confront Taliban & their sectarian allies head on.

PA would soon need to start an operation in Pakistani cities to flush the terrorists from their urban hide outs. Unless terrorists have been rooted out completely; given time they will resurface. There being no dearth of illiterate young men willing to blow themselves up on the promise of going straight to heaven.

This means that Zarbe Azb needs to go on for a long time, but would it be allowed to do so by the politicians?

This is because of the so-called Pashtoon factor. An overwhelming majority of the members of the so-called religious parties, particularly in the top positions are Pashtoon. Same is true for the KPK government. You are talking about the government and political parties, I say a majority of members here on the PDF do not have the spine to point to this Pashtoon factor for they fear either to be labeled as racists or given infarctions. Some members did try to bring this up but threads were closed and removed by the management for this appears to be a taboo subject on PDF.

Not all Pashtoon are terrorists/terrorist apologists/terrorist sympathizers, but many of terrorists/terrorist apologists/terrorist sympathizers are indeed Pashtoon and they support them in the name of the so-called Pashtoon wali and to some extent Islam (which is a screen). Prominent columnists such as Nazeer Naji, Izhar ul Haque, Muneer A Baloch, and Ammar Choudhary have been writing about this. They have mentioned how the outskirts of Lahore, Chakwal, Islamabad, Karachi, even garrisoned city Rawalpindi have been surrounded by the un-welcomed Afghans. All sorts of criminals and terrorists call those settlements home. In order to solve, the problem needs to be recognized first. We are simply not willing to recognize the Afghan factor and divided or confused identity crisis of Tribal Pashtoons and their role in the current insurgency.

I am not saying non-Pashtoon are not involved in terrorism, they are, but the sanctuaries and nurseries are still located primarily in lawless FATA and the areas bordering Afghanistan and Pakistan. Money, weapons, and drugs all come primarily through Afghan/FATA/KPK route. Tribals need to decide once for all, are they Pakistani, and if yes, they must favor Pakistani interest. I am not saying they should sever their relations with tribals living across the border but the movement must be regulated and it will not happen without Tribals support and willingness to establish the writ of Pakistan in those areas.