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What lies beneath the war in Afghanistan?

Murshad

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Truth is war's first casualty. The Afghan war's biggest untruth is, "we've got to fight terrorists over there so we don't have to fight them at home."

Many North Americans still buy this lie because they believe the 9/11 attacks came directly from the Afghanistan-based al-Qaida and Taliban movements.

False. The 9/11 attacks were planned in Germany and Spain, and conducted mainly by U.S.-based Saudis to punish America for supporting Israel.

Taliban, a militant religious, anti-Communist movement of Pashtun tribesmen, was totally surprised by 9/11. Taliban received U.S. aid until May, 2001. The CIA was planning to use Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida to stir up Muslim Uighurs against Chinese rule, and Taliban against Russia's Central Asian allies.

Al-Qaida only numbered 300 members. Most have been killed. A handful escaped to Pakistan. Only a few remain in Afghanistan. Yet President Barack Obama insists 68,000 or more U.S. troops must stay in Afghanistan to fight al-Qaida and prevent extremists from re-acquiring "terrorist training camps."

This claim, like Saddam Hussein's non-existent weapons of mass destruction, is a handy slogan to market war to the public. Today, half of Afghanistan is under Taliban control. Anti-American militants could more easily use Somalia, Indonesia, Bangladesh, North and West Africa, or Sudan. They don't need remote Afghanistan. The 9/11 attacks were planned in apartments, not camps.

The United States should not be waging war on Taliban. However backwards and oafish its Pashtun tribesmen, they have no desire or interest in attacking America. Even less, Canada.

Taliban are the sons of the U.S.-backed mujahidin who defeated the Soviets in the 1980s. As I have been saying since 9/11, Taliban never was America's enemy. Instead of invading Afghanistan in 2001, the U.S. should have paid Taliban to uproot al-Qaida.

The Pashtun tribes want to end foreign occupation and drive out the Afghan Communists, who now dominate the U.S.-installed Kabul regime. But the U.S. has blundered into a full-scale war not just with Taliban, but with most of Afghanistan's fierce Pashtun tribes, who comprise over half the population.

Obama is wrestling with widening the war. After eight years of military operations costing $236 billion US, the U.S. commander in Afghanistan just warned of the threat of "failure," a.k.a. defeat. Canada has so far wasted $16 billion Cdn. on the war. Western occupation forces will be doomed if the Afghan resistance ever gets modern anti-aircraft and anti-tank missiles.

The U.S. is sinking ever deeper into the South Asian morass. Washington is trying to arm-twist Pakistan into being more obedient and widening the war against its own independent-minded Pashtun tribes -- wrongly called "Taliban."

Washington's incredibly ham-handed efforts to use $7.5 billion US to bribe Pakistan's feeble, corrupt government and army, take control of military promotions, and get a grip on Pakistan's nuclear arsenal, have Pakistan's soldiers on the verge of revolt.

Obama has been under intense pressure from flag-waving Republicans, much of the media, and the hawkish national security establishment to expand the war. Israel's supporters, including many Congressional Democrats, want to see the U.S. seize Pakistan's nuclear arms and expand the Afghan war into Iran.

Obama should admit Taliban is not and never was a threat to the West; that the wildly exaggerated al-Qaida has been mostly eradicated; and that the U.S.-led war in Afghanistan is causing more damage to U.S. interests in the Muslim world -- now 25% of all humanity -- than Bin Laden and his few rag-tag allies. The bombing in Madrid and London, and conspiracy in Toronto, were all horribly wrongheaded protests by young Muslims against the Afghan war.
We are not going to change the way Afghans treat their women by waging war on them, or bring democracy through rigged elections.
I wish Obama would just declare victory in Afghanistan, withdraw western forces, and hand over security to a multi-national stabilization force from Muslim nations. Good presidents, like good generals, know when to retreat.
ERIC.MARGOLIS@SUNMEDIA.CA
 
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The Pashtun tribes want to end foreign occupation and drive out the Afghan Communists, who now dominate the U.S.-installed Kabul regime. But the U.S. has blundered into a full-scale war not just with Taliban, but with most of Afghanistan's fierce Pashtun tribes, who comprise over half the population.

ERIC.MARGOLIS@SUNMEDIA.CA

News for Mr Margolis: Most Afghans want to have the Taliban finished, and would like the international community to help them towards that goal.
 
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News for Mr Margolis: Most Afghans want to have the Taliban finished, and want sincere action from the international community to see that it's done.

from where u got this info???
the full scale insurgency Taliban is under taking is impossible without local support & for a moment i suppose that ur conclusion is right then tell me what has US achieved uptil now they have even lost the little bit of support they had in Afgh when they kept on bombing marriage ceremonies etc...
They need to differentiate b/w Taliban & Al Qeda, just bullets wont do the Job in Afgh they need to get local support & for that they need to do something practical to please people of Afgh not the palace of Karzai, Taliban can hit US where ever & when ever they want Time has proved it, Sooner or later they will have to leaev tell me what will they leave behind, A strong Gov which will hold Afgh intact or they just leave with Taliban executing the people in Palace in kabul & take over the gov
 
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News for Mr Margolis: Most Afghans want to have the Taliban finished, and want sincere action from the international community to see that it's done.

Things in Afghanistan and Iraq before US arrival were different. Iraqis wanted to get rid of Saddam but at large Afghans did not. Exceptions are the Northern Alliance etc. Still due to the inhuman actions and activities of US and allied forces, people wish the return of Taliban. Even the president of Afghanistan Karzai has this in his mind as he says he is ready to negotiate with Taliban and is ready to give them share in Govt.

Taliban who have been cleared from several regions of Afghanistan are agains taking those areas over, why? because of the support of people of Afghanistan.

And what have you given to them except death, misery and wretchedness? You have made Kabul the city of widows. What a great success. But remember time returns not today but tomorrow or the day after tomorrow.

KIT Over n Out:pakistan:
 
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The Taliban would be nowhere in Afghanistan were it not for support from Pakistan.

Despite the mistakes of the international community, and the corruption of Karzai - people dread a return to the barbaric days of the Taliban.

Surveys say that Afghans prefer their current government to the Taliban by 84-4 percent. (It was 91-1 in 2005.)

POLL: Afghans - ABC News
 
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The barbarian Taliban would be nowhere in Afghanistan were it not for support from Pakistan.

Yeah yeah....... Pakistan supported those Taliban and they came to Pakistan to destabalise it. Dude, Taliban are more loyal than US towards their friends unlike US who would turn away to their home after getting their objectives in '89 and forgetting their friend.

Secondly, if Taliban are barbarian than US is the same. But I personally think US is a step ahead. You name every freedom fighter Taliban whether he has any thing to do with them or not.

Despite the mistakes of the international community, and the corruption of Karzai - people dread a return to the barbaric days of the Taliban.

Surveys say that Afghans prefer their current government to the Taliban by 84-4 percent. (It was 91-1 in 2005.)

POLL: Afghans - ABC News

Did those dare to go into the Taliban control regions of Afghanistan or just filled the files and survey reports by questioning people of Kabul?

Such surveys from a country where war is in full blow are nothing but lies in black n white. No one agrees with it not even some of west. If they were so happy than why did US called back his Ambassador who was accused to be having hand in tempring of elections. Karzai hardly got majority, simple though and with the help of cheating. Great! Where 45% out of 84% of the total Afghan population was, who are in favour of Afghan present govt.? Sleeping on the day of election I guess?

KIT Over n Out
 
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The Taliban would be nowhere in Afghanistan were it not for support from Pakistan.

Despite the mistakes of the international community, and the corruption of Karzai - people dread a return to the barbaric days of the Taliban.

Surveys say that Afghans prefer their current government to the Taliban by 84-4 percent. (It was 91-1 in 2005.)

POLL: Afghans - ABC News

:lol:

have u read the Link heading, let me post it here, its 2007 article & situation by now would have deteriorated more

POLL: Afghansย’ Criticism of U.S. Efforts Rises; In the Southwest, Taliban Support Grows

Frustrated by ongoing violence and uneven development, Afghans have grown sharply more critical of U.S. efforts in their country ย— and in the beleaguered southwest, support for the Taliban, ousted from power six years ago, is on the rise.


Overall, 42 percent of Afghans rate U.S. efforts in Afghanistan positively, down steeply from 68 percent in 2005, and 57 percent last year. For the first time, this national ABC News/BBC/ARD survey finds that more than half of Afghans disapprove of U.S. efforts.

Afghans' confidence in the ability of U.S. and NATO forces to provide security also has dropped, from two-thirds a year ago to just over half now. And there's been a similar, 15-point decline in the number who say people in their area support these forces.

The problem is not the United States and NATO's alone: Ratings of the strength and effectiveness of the Afghan police, and their level of local support, also have declined. Meanwhile 42 percent of Afghans say the Taliban has gained strength in the past year -- far more than say it's weakened.

Many such views are worse in the Southwest, the main Taliban hotspot. There, nearly two-thirds rate U.S. efforts negatively, confidence in local authorities is down sharply -- and opposition to the Taliban has weakened substantially. Twenty-three percent in the Southwest say people in their area support the Taliban, triple what it was last year, and compared to just 8 percent nationally.

Further, a year ago 81 percent in the Southwest said the Taliban had "no significant support at all" in their area; now just 52 percent say so. Preference in the Southwest for the current government rather than the Taliban has declined from 90 percent then to 77 percent now. And in the single biggest change, just 45 percent in the Southwest now support the presence of NATO forces there -- dramatically down from 83 percent a year ago. Civilian casualties blamed on these forces is a prime complaint.

POSITIVES -- Not all trends are negative; many Afghans in this national poll express forbearance, and half retain optimism, in the face of the country's difficulties. And criticism of the United States is largely focused on its performance, not its presence. Seventy-one percent of Afghans support the United States' presence in Afghanistan -- and where the U.S. is seen as strongest, its approval ratings peak.

read rest of it ur self
POLL: Afghans? Criticism of U.S. Efforts Rises; In the Southwest, Taliban Support Grows - ABC News
 
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Such surveys from a country where war is in full blow are nothing but lies in black n white. No one agrees with it not even some of west. If they were so happy than why did US called back his Ambassador who was accused to be having hand in tempring of elections. Karzai hardly got majority, simple though and with the help of cheating. Great! Where 45% out of 84% of the total Afghan population was, who are in favour of Afghan present govt.? Sleeping on the day of election I guess?

KIT Over n Out

what election??? the elections which was not covered by Media & elections about which every one is expressing doubt

TALIBAN ARE THE ONLY WINNERS OF THE AFGHAN ELECTION

Before the Afghan presidential election and accompanying voter registration, it seemed to me the Taliban had three courses of action:

* COA 1: Overtly disrupt the election process before it began by actively targeting the election process, by attacking electoral workers and the movement of electoral materials.

* COA 2: Overtly disrupt the election process by attacking voters and polling centers on Election Day.

* COA 3: Ignore the whole process and count on voter apathy and lack of government effectiveness to demonstrate to the people that, elections or no elections, western style democracy was just not working and had, to date, and, in the future, would make no difference in the lives of Afghans because in spite of great expectations in 2005 it had not made a difference in the last five years.



However, as Von Moltke Senior taught us, ย“when you choose three courses of action, the enemy always chooses a fourth.ย” In this case, the Allegations of electoral fraud did the job of the Taliban in a much more spectacular and successful way than any Taliban attack on the process could have. Voter fraud, both real and perceived will have far reaching implications for Afghanistan and the Counterinsurgency.

As it stands now, the IEC cannot announce a clear winner of the election until the Electoral Complaints Commission rules on its many serious accusations of electoral fraud. We should remember that Afghan Electoral Law stipulates that, unless a candidate wins a clear 50% of the vote there must be another runoff election. Time for that election is running out. Logistical preparation for another election is monumental.

Further complicating the issue is the major factor that the Afghan weather and terrain play. If the election is not held before November, there is serious possibility that the election will not take place until the spring because 14 of the 34 provinces of Afghanistan are inaccessible from November to the end of March due to snow in the mountain passes. This will prove to be fodder for the opposition and the Taliban as President Karzai will be ruling without a mandate for another six months. In fact, his mandate really ended in May and we cannot forget the ruckus that was raised in Parliament when the IEC announced that the election could not be held until August. This was the natural result of time constraints caused by the weather and terrain of Afghanistan which prevented winter preparation for a spring election.

So, who will rule Afghanistan in the interim? Karzai or another appointed leader? The Taliban and the opposition will have a heyday with this government in limbo.

We can also not forget that next summer the Afghans are due to have Wolesi Jurga (the lower house of Parliament) elections and District elections. We are now looking at the possibility of there being two major elections within months of each other with thousands of candidates: Presidential runoff and Wolesi Jurga/District elections. The question now arises as to who will pay for these elections. With each election costing $150 million each, donors will have to ante up $300 million. That will be difficult when one factors in donor fatigue, already evident in 2005, which will surely be exacerbated by a reluctance to fund a flawed electoral process.

The legitimacy of the government and re-establishing the link between the people and their government are fundamental principles in COIN. The IEC, the Government of Afghanistan and the international community will have to find a way out of this electoral minefield. Is a Loya Jurga the solution? How will the Afghan Government re-establish the legitimacy it lost in the last election?

TALIBAN ARE THE ONLY WINNERS OF THE AFGHAN ELECTION - USA and USMC Counterinsurgency Center Blog
 
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:lol:

have u read the Link heading, let me post it here, its 2007 article & situation by now would have deteriorated more

POLL: Afghansย’ Criticism of U.S. Efforts Rises; In the Southwest, Taliban Support Grows



Undeniably there is frustration with Karzai and the international community. Some anti-social elements might turn to the Taliban in such a situation.

But even after such growth, their support was still at 4%.

It is perfectly understandable that any sane human being would be filled with horror and loathing at the thought of being ruled by these scum.
 
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Undeniably there is frustration with Karzai and the international community. Some anti-social elements might turn to the Taliban in such a situation.

But even after such growth, their support was still at 4%.

It is perfectly understandable that any sane human being would be filled with horror and loathing at the thought of being ruled by these scum.

:disagree:
U tell me is there any Gurella war that is benn fought at such a bigt scale without strong local support
what has america achieved, before US leaves they need to do something to keep Taliban away from taking power, What have they done??
Is there a strong Gov in center that will deal with taliban once NATO & US goes out?? NO, there isn't & what steps are being taken to strengthen the Afghan Gov, Karazai has already lost all credibility
so Whats the option???
Taliban are holding most of the country except few pockets occupied by NATO & US, air strikes are being done on Civilians this all is just adding fuel to Taliban support & hatred for US, Bullet is not the solution, what is US doing to win hearts & minds of afghan ppl?
 
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:disagree:
U tell me is there any Gurella war that is benn fought at such a bigt scale without strong local support
what has america achieved, before US leaves they need to do something to keep Taliban away from taking power, What have they done??
Is there a strong Gov in center that will deal with taliban once NATO & US goes out?? NO, there isn't & what steps are being taken to strengthen the Afghan Gov, Karazai has already lost all credibility
so Whats the option???
Taliban are holding most of the country except few pockets occupied by NATO & US, air strikes are being done on Civilians this all is just adding fuel to Taliban support & hatred for US, Bullet is not the solution, what is US doing to win hearts & minds of afghan ppl?

There are plenty of terrorist guerilla wars that have been fought with foreign support.

Here is a very recent poll: Despite the undeniable disappointment with Karzai and the international community, the majority of people say that the biggest danger to Afghanistan is the resurgence of the Taliban.

CHARTS: Afghanistan: Where Things Stand - ABC News
 
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^^^ As per same recent poll, 91% of the people have an unfavourable view of the role of Pakistan.

Not surprising, given that the Taliban are getting their support from Pakistan.
 
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^^^ As per same recent poll, 91% of the people have an unfavourable view of the role of Pakistan.

Not surprising, given that the Taliban are getting their support from Pakistan.

Yeah if Pakistan pull hand back US and Allied will get ****** more bitterly than ever. Remember its the intelligence of Pakistan which let you stay there. What sources of intel you had in Afghanistan before 9/11? None. US completely relied on Pakistani intel.

As per recent poll, 101% Pakistanis want US to get its *** out of this region.

KIT Out
 
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According to the U.S. Geological Survey and the Afghan Ministry of Mines and Industry, Afghanistan may be possessing up to 36 trillion cubic feet (1,000 km3) of natural gas, 3.6 billion barrels (570,000,000 m3) of petroleum and up to 1,325 million barrels (2.107E+8 m3) of natural gas liquids. This could mark the turning point in Afghanistan’s reconstruction efforts. Energy exports could generate the revenue that Afghan officials need to modernize the country’s infrastructure and expand economic opportunities for the beleaguered and fractious population.[27] Other reports show that the country has huge amounts of gold, copper, coal, iron ore and other minerals.[24][28][95] The government of Afghanistan is in the process of extracting and exporting its copper reserves, which will be earning $1.2 billion US dollars in royalties and taxes every year for the next 30 years. It will also provide permanent labor to 3,000 of its citizens.

Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Dear Omar1984 what ever you said is 100% right but I want to disagree on one issue. US knew very well, well before invasion of Afghanistan about all this. When US and CO. started war in Afghanistan here in Toronto following article was very ย“popularย” among anti-war activists. Though I have already posted this at some where on this forum. Instead of pasting links I am again putting whole article for friends to read again in this context.

[quote]"It is the Oil, Stupid!"

by Joseph Clifford
The Russians got into their Vietnam right after we got out of ours? Isn't that strange?

We supported Bin Laden and the Taliban for years, and viewed them as freedom fighters against the Russians? Isn't that strange?

As late as 1998 the US was paying the salary of every single Taliban official in Afghanistan? Isn't that strange?

There is more oil and gas in the Caspian Sea area than in Saudi Arabia, but you need a pipeline through Afghanistan to get the oil out. Isn't that strange?

UNOCAL, a giant American Oil conglomerate, wanted to build a 1000 mile long pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan to the Arabian Sea. Isn't that strange?

UNOCAL spent $10,000,000,000 on geological surveys for pipeline construction, and very nicely courted the Taliban for their support in allowing the construction to begin. Isn't that strange?

All of the leading Taliban officials were in Texas negotiating with UNOCAL in 1998. Isn't that strange?

1998-1999 the Taliban changed its mind and threw UNOCAL out of the country and awarded the pipeline project to a company from Argentina. Isn't that strange?

John Maresca VP of UNOCAL testified before Congress and said no pipeline until the Taliban was gone and a more friendly government was established. Isn't that strange?

1999-2000 The Taliban became the most evil people in the world. Isn't that strange?

Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was told by senior American officials in mid-July that military action against Afghanistan would go ahead by the middle of October. Isn't that strange?

9/11 WTC disaster.

Bush goes to war against Afghanistan even though none of the hijackers came from Afghanistan. Isn't that strange?

Bush blamed Bin Laden but has never offered any proof saying itย’s a "secret". Isn't that strange?

Taliban offered to negotiate to turn over Bin Laden if we showed them some proof. We refused; we bombed. Isn't that strange?

Bush said: "This is not about nation building. It's about getting the terrorists." Isn't that strange?

We have a new government in Afghanistan. Isn't that strange?

The leader of that government formerly worked for UNOCAL. Isn't that strange?

Bush appoints a special envoy to represent the US to deal with that new government, who formerly was the "chief consultant to UNOCAL". Isn't that strange?

The Bush family acquired their wealth through oil? Isn't that strange?

Bush's Secretary of Interior was the President of an oil company before going to Washington. Isn't that strange?

George Bush Sr. now works with the "Carlysle Group" specializing in huge oil investments around the world. Isn't that strange?

Condoleezza Rice worked for Chevron before gong to Washington. Isn't that strange?

Chevron named one of its newest "supertankers" after Condoleezza. Isn't that strange?

Dick Cheney worked for the giant oil conglomerate Haliburton before becoming VP. Isn't that strange?

Haliburton gave Cheney $34 Million dollars as a farewell gift when he left Haliburton. Isn't that strange?

Haliburton is in the pipeline construction business. Isn't that strange?

There is $6 Trillion dollars worth of oil in the Caspian Sea area. Isn't that strange?

The US government quietly announces Jan 31, 2002 we will support the construction of the Trans-Afghanistan pipeline. Isn't that strange?

President Musharref (Pakistan), and Karrzai, (Afghanistan -Unocal) announce agreement to build proposed gas pipeline from Central Asia to Pakistan via Afghanistan. (Irish Times 02/10/02) Isn't that strange?

"Itย’s the Oil, Stupid!"
Mr. Joseph Clifford contributed above article to Media Monitors Network (MMN) from James Town, Rhode Island, USA
[/quote]




This article was distributed through photocopies among protesters, which were very few in the beginning. Does not this look so true?
 
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