What is wrong with the Taliban?

[jeypore]

That is a very flawed understanding of the NAR that was implemented. The NAR was a demand from Swat for over a decade, and the GoP had agreed in principle to change the legal system a long time ago, but never actually got around to formulating the regulations and implementing them. This has nothing to do with whether the Taliban follow Islam or not (sine the Taliban interpretations are not what is being introduced), and everything to do with following through with a promise that the GoP made, and attempting to find a peaceful solution to the insurgency.

However, the fact remains that Solomon2's argument has no merit unless he validates the underlying premise of the Taliban following the Quran and Muhammad's teachings.

On the subject of NAR, it does have to do with whether the way Talibans do follow Islam. Case In point:

In the “Definitions” part, the NAR explains: “In the application to the personal law of any Muslim sect, the expression ‘the holy Qura’an and Sunnah’ shall mean the Qura’an and Sunnah-e-Nabvi (PBUH) as interpreted by that sect.What Actually Nizam-e-Adl Regulation Is | The Pakistani Spectator

Now mr. Am, I do agree with you the talibans are not following true islam, but case in question is, the talibans themselves believe they are. What the pakistan establishment has just given them thru NAR is that there interperation of islam will matter in these proviances. It does give a high dosage of poison, since it has the potential/opposition of one more movement towards the whole country. Never underestimate precedence. The ideology should have been curtailed and should have given no oxygen to breed further, instead by NAR it is given more.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

On the subject of NAR, it does have to do with whether the way Talibans do follow Islam. Case In point:



Now mr. Am, I do agree with you the talibans are not following true islam, but case in question is, the talibans themselves believe they are. What the pakistan establishment has just given them thru NAR is that there interperation of islam will matter in these proviances. It does give a high dosage of poison, since it has the potential/opposition of one more movement towards the whole country. Never underestimate precedence. The ideology should have been curtailed and should have given no oxygen to breed further, instead by NAR it is given more.

It is incorrect to suggest that the GoP gave them carte blanche to implement a Taliban interpretation of Shariah. No doubt that is what the Taliban and Sufi sought and hoped to accomplish, but the GoNWFP was categorical in stating that the NAR only allowed the GoNWFP to appoint Qazi's, and not the Taliban and Sufi.

It is the Qazi's who would be interpreting Islam and applying it in there rulings, and so long as the GoNWFP ensured that moderate and educated Qazi's were appointed, the chances of an extremist interpretation of Islamic law would be minimal.

The issue here is not 'Shariah' per se, the issue is specifically the interpretation of Shariah espoused by the extremists.

 

[Durran3]

Salomon does ask a intriquing question, if the talibans are freely aloud to modify islam to there liking, why there is no outrage from the real followers.

Thats a false claim.. there has been enough outrage over the way Taliban govern and their twisted ideology. The fact that Pakistan is at War and pounding them hard in SWAT is a testament that the Nation rejects what the Taliban stand for and this isn't just a military operation that is being backed by the government but in general the whole nation is supporting the Military action this time around.

 

[wtf]

The issue here is not 'Shariah' per se, the issue is specifically the interpretation of Shariah espoused by the extremists.

I would say it is interpretation and the comprehensiveness. I am fairly certain that there are parts of Shariah which are unambiguous, but are nevertheless unrelated to modern society.

I'll take a non controversial example. Quran forbids usury and payment of interest purely for deposits (Riba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

It would be much simpler to ignore that law and to set interest rates based on risk levels and based on market mechanistic pragmatism. Instead Islamic banks go about re-defining the word "interest" or go about re-interpreting this line.

I would say that this rule must be ignored rather than "re-interpreted". If god is judging all this, I think his punishment would be lower for ignoring his rules rather than perverting his rules (and convincing others about these perverted rules).

Again, I can't read gods mind, I am only saying what I think. No disrespect meant towards any Islamic bankers or the holy books.

 

[wtf]

Lets turn to the Old Testament. For the moment, focus your attention on the Book of Numbers.

You are about to learn that Moses ORDERED his followers to commit war crimes. The most heinous were crimes were committed against women and children.

Wait, wasn't Moses one of Islams prophets too ? Are you mudslinging against your own prophets now ?
Islamic view of Moses - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[jeypore]

It is incorrect to suggest that the GoP gave them carte blanche to implement a Taliban interpretation of Shariah. No doubt that is what the Taliban and Sufi sought and hoped to accomplish, but the GoNWFP was categorical in stating that the NAR only allowed the GoNWFP to appoint Qazi's, and not the Taliban and Sufi.

It is the Qazi's who would be interpreting Islam and applying it in there rulings, and so long as the GoNWFP ensured that moderate and educated Qazi's were appointed, the chances of an extremist interpretation of Islamic law would be minimal.

The issue here is not 'Shariah' per se, the issue is specifically the interpretation of Shariah espoused by the extremists.

Now I am bit confused AM, Maybe what you saying is true, but there is statement by the taliban spoken man saying it is more of military interferance then Darul Qaza. Infact he is embrasing the Darul Qaza with the goverment appointy:

Meanwhile, Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) has rejected to lay down arms as demanded by the NWFP government under the Swat peace deal. “Any such decision under the shadow of a military operation is not acceptable to us,” said Taliban spokesman Muslim Khan.
“The government should first stop the operation and then appoint judges for the court in consultations with Sufi Mohammad,” he added.
“The weapons are the ornament of the Muslims so we will not lay down arms,” Taliban spokesman Muslim Khan said.
“We lifted arms for the implementation of Darul Qaza and people laid down their lives for the same purpose,” he said. Muslim Khan said US President Obama has hinted at abolishing Islamic law in Swat and vowed to keep themselves armed if US advances into Pakistan. http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-n...olitics/04-May-2009/TNSM-rejects-Darul-Qaza/1

 

[jeypore]

Thats a false claim.. there has been enough outrage over the way Taliban govern and their twisted ideology. The fact that Pakistan is at War and pounding them hard in SWAT is a testament that the Nation rejects what the Taliban stand for and this isn't just a military operation that is being backed by the government but in general the whole nation is supporting the Military action this time around.

That is bit of oxymornic wouldn't you say. If the dedication was there 80% of your army personals would not be standing at the wrong theater.

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

Wait, wasn't Moses one of Islams prophets too ? Are you mudslinging against your own prophets now ?
Islamic view of Moses - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No, you wait....................... I merely pointed out what it states in their books. The comments were not my own..............I had actually deleted certain remarks from the post before posting it as I did cut & paste from a certain non-muslim site. I have read the bible though & that is how I knew where those passages are contained.
Thanks for your concern though . Apparently, we ve never gotten any respect from jews & christians in return for the respect we show anyways. You should be happy , if you do feel that way though! thanks for the link.... dont need it though!
So feel free to draw your own conclusions & sticking up for your pals!!!!!

 

[wtf]

No, you wait....................... I merely pointed out what it states in their books. The comments were not my own..............I had actually deleted certain remarks from the post before posting it as I did cut & paste from a certain non-muslim site. I have read the bible though & that is how I knew where those passages are contained.
Thanks for your concern though . Apparently, we ve never gotten any respect from jews & christians in return for the respect we show anyways. You should be happy , if you do feel that way though! thanks for the link.... dont need it though!
So feel free to draw your own conclusions & sticking up for your pals!!!!!

Torah, Gospels and book of Psalms are generally held as "revealed" books (revealed by god, not man's creation). Hence the name "people of the book". So (most of) Bible is your book too.

But nevertheless, your argument nicely illustrates what is wrong about Taliban. Those that they seek to fight are also followers of the same god.
----------------------------
And about me being happy or standing up for my "friends"

I personally do not think religion and law mix very well -so I am as against Sharia as rule as much as Hindu rule based on Dharmashastra in India or a Torah based law in Israel.
I also do not believe in "historic hatred". 100 years ago Britishers were oppressing India - but I find that no reason to get mad at Britishers today (except maybe for ongoing issues like Koh-i-Noor). Similarly, in the 60's I would have been a "coloured" in South Africa or even US. I won't hold that against the US. This is the reason I find arguments between religions un-understandable. I can understand Crusaders and Islamic people were at war in the past, but I can't see that as a reason to hate Christians in todays world who were not even born then. Same way, I can't understand Hindu extremists in India railing against "years of Muslim rule" while it is clear that Muslims in India are the economically backward people or the people who are most Patriotic who actively chose not to move to Pakistan/Bangladesh.

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

Torah, Gospels and book of Psalms are generally held as "revealed" books (revealed by god, not man's creation). Hence the name "people of the book". So (most of) Bible is your book too.

But nevertheless, your argument nicely illustrates what is wrong about Taliban. Those that they seek to fight are also followers of the same god.
----------------------------
And about me being happy or standing up for my "friends"

I personally do not think religion and law mix very well -so I am as against Sharia as rule as much as Hindu rule based on Dharmashastra in India or a Torah based law in Israel.
I also do not believe in "historic hatred". 100 years ago Britishers were oppressing India - but I find that no reason to get mad at Britishers today (except maybe for ongoing issues like Koh-i-Noor). Similarly, in the 60's I would have been a "coloured" in South Africa or even US. I won't hold that against the US. This is the reason I find arguments between religions un-understandable. I can understand Crusaders and Islamic people were at war in the past, but I can't see that as a reason to hate Christians in todays world who were not even born then. Same way, I can't understand Hindu extremists in India railing against "years of Muslim rule" while it is clear that Muslims in India are the economically backward people or the people who are most Patriotic who actively chose not to move to Pakistan/Bangladesh.

Thanks a bunch !!!

 

[Durran3]

The Monotheistic religions are like a public Transportation system.. One goes by air, one by rail and the other by Sea... Eventually all reach the same destination... thats how i see it lol..

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

The Monotheistic religions are like a public Transportation system.. One goes by air, one by rail and the other by Sea... Eventually all reach the same destination... thats how i see it lol..

Wah bhai. Kya baat ki aapnay! but let me see yahood and/or nasraani say the same thing! That would be even better. Plent of Muslims believe that ahle-kitab, if they follow their scripture would fare just fine in the end.

 

[zubair723]

TALIBAN is not a sect, or a political movement. Its a 'reaction'. And unjustified/immoral actions breed similar reactions. As GEN. NASEERULLAH BABAR said : 'they are ' Mustaqbil kee hakeekat'.

 

[fhassan]

salaam

I will clarify the position on "people of the book" - and the concept of past revelations in Islam.

I believe that our indian friend is a little confused...as stated earlier I will clear this mess, initiated by solomon2 (a choice of name that is suggestive of the destruction of an Islamic holy site), after the
20th of may.

Mark my words, he will not have much to show for after I finish dealing with him.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Now I am bit confused AM, Maybe what you saying is true, but there is statement by the taliban spoken man saying it is more of military interferance then Darul Qaza. Infact he is embrasing the Darul Qaza with the goverment appointy:

Not really - Sufi stated in an interview that GoNWFP appointees were not 'qualified' to be Qazi's.

But what does this have to do with the original question, of implementing the Taliban's version of Shariah?