What is basis for human knowledge, wahee or aqal?

[Mughal1]

What is basis for human knowledge, wahee or aqal?

A very important thread for deciding the issue once and for all, so please participate and share your ideas so that we could learn from each other.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Mughal1]

What is basis for human knowledge, wahee or aqal?

A very important thread for deciding the issue once and for all, so please participate and share your ideas so that we could learn from each other.

Thanks in advance.

My view is as follows;

There is no argument that aqal is basis for all human knowledge because having sense of making sense of things is basis for everything else that man can think and do.

If we think about it and question it, where does our basic, primary or foundational knowledge come from? To begin with our senses give our brains windows to the outside world. This acts as stimulus for brain to receive information and process and store it and recall it as and when need be. The brain itself needs a lot of training when it comes to learning skills. This is why a baby cannot use his senses right away but takes time by trying to use them till he becomes skilled over a long period of time. Then baby learns to use his body parts eg hands and feet etc etc. He has to learn how to sit up, how to stand and walk and talk etc etc. This is why children are only sent to schools when they have become capable of learning from schools. You do not send them right away to universities to get education. However we sent them to schools hoping one day they will have learned enough to go to universities. Likewise we do not send them out to work because they do not have skills to do that either. So it should be clear that learning takes ages before one could actually employ one's skill for the purpose one has learned them. One day a baby becomes so learned that he can do amazing things ie he can reach the moon. Allah has placed huge potential in mankind to actualise it through learning an doing things. This is how man makes Allah look great. It is because man is his masterpiece ie Allah has created nothing better than man. If we talk rubbish about man, we degrade Allah himself without realising it. This world is created by Allah for mankind and such verses are repeated in the Quran. Allah has given the universe under the control of mankind to do with it as they like just like all the other things that man is using for his purposes eg donkeys, camels, cattle, gold, silver etc etc. However man also has been created for a set purpose and that is long way away yet from being fulfilled by mankind. All this is in the Quran if we could prepare ourselves to read the Quran and understand it properly. People can only understand information to the stage they have developed themselves biologically, psychologically and sociologically etc etc. This is why not only that we cannot understand the Quran till we learn how to do that but nothing else either. Can you build a bike or a car or a house without learning how to do it? No. Likewise all sorts of knowledge needs skills for making sense of it and using it for its purpose. So the divine revelation ie the Quran is not an exception.

This should explain to people why sir syed was right in pushing for aqal based interpretation of the quran and the rest of islamic sources of knowledge. I read his interpretation 50 + years ago and rejected it and due to mullahs' propaganda as we all know it I also did not like what parwez wrote about the quran. However as I grew up mentally I started my own research and exploration and as I went on in time I found what was right way to approach understanding of the quran.

The way to understand the quran is use aqal to make sense of the quran but this aqal has to be aqal needed for understanding the level of information that is found in the quran. You see if you gave the quran in the hands of a baby and told him it is book of God so treat it sensibly. He has no idea and will take it, tear its pages and start putting them in his mouth. So you will end up with a damaged copy of the quran.

What I am saying is that level of information given needs to wait for the recipient to grow up and be able to make sense of it. Otherwise it is like loading a donkey with loads of books and burying it under them.

This is the reason Allah created the world by setting up processes, systems, mechanisms and laws etc etc and gave it time to unfold. As mankind came about from the very same tree of life as other living creatures and learned sense in time only then Allah revealed to them his guidance because by that time one of them was able to make sense of it and teach it to others. In the quranic context there have been more than one aadams. One from which humanity branched off as a new species, the other who became human through learning and received revelation.

The verses in surah baqrah are not about creation of adam but about assigning him some task to bring humanity out of bloodshed by forming a proper human community and thereby bringing about a kingdom based on guidance of Allah.

Word malaaikah here is used for tribal chiefs at the time and word sajdah is used in context of, all of you submit to my program, constitution and law together if you want to get rid of way of life based upon laws of nature. People can either live by laws of nature or by laws given to mankind for overcoming laws of nature.

Laws of nature use mankind and laws given for guidance of mankind by Allah help him use laws of nature and rest of universe to his own advantage. So man has the choice to go by either way he wants.

Take word SHUKR for example, we generally take it to mean thanks. We never think about things to try to understand them for their purpose. For example, Allah has given us brains and senses and bodies and told us the purpose in form of setting for us some goals to achieve. What is purpose of brain? Are we using it for that purpose? What is purpose of our senses? Are we using them for that purpose? What is purposes of our bodies? Are we using them for that purpose? Allah has created this universe for us and we are told about it in the quran repeatedly? Are we at all bothered with finding out what purpose can we use the universe and all that is in it for? Are we therefore really grateful to Allah for all this?

Now make sense of word SHUKR in that context. It means to use provision for the purpose they are provided for by Allah. Now the questions, are we using our brains for the purpose they are given? Is that appreciation of gifts of Allah or not? Can we really appreciate gifts of Allah by misusing them?

Now see the implications of this ie we are saying by our mouths thanks Allah but we are at the same time misusing things he gave us. Are we then not lying to ourselves and Allah?

More than that are we studying the quran for what it is given for to us as a gift. Is this gift least of gifts or most of them?

So time for us all to put our thinking caps on and show that we are human beings not animals. In the quran we read such verses which tell us we are born ignorant but with brains and senses, why? See 7/179, 16/78, 22/46, 23/78 etc. It is because we are supposed to learn through direct experiences in time. What does that tell us? That Allah has set up things to evolve from a simple state of existence to most sophisticated they can be. A clear proof that evolution is a fact. Not only that but Allah also condemns those people as animals who do not use their brains and senses to learn things they are supposed to learn by using them. Again a clear proof that revelation is not the basis for human learning but just a guidance once people have learned enough to make sense of it.

Both the quran and real world realities agree perfectly that basis for human knowledge is sense of making sense of things. Revelation is secondary to aqal. This is why Allah appeals to sensible people among mankind repeatedly for judging the truth about the quran and not to stupid people who are at the level of animals in their thinking level.


God, a provable reality or a mere fiction?
kia insaniyat ne quran se islam ko theek tarah se samjha?

 

[Aamna14]

I'll merely give my opinion on the topic. Believing in one's own intellect or "aqal" can't be denounced but like everything else even that has limitations. Secondly, not two people on this planet are carbon copies of each others and neither all of us share all our beliefs and opinions with each other so even our "aqal" is in a consistent clash with that of someone else's. For example, you have given examples of which words in the Quran are metaphors and for what they truly stand for but that is again your understanding of the topic which you have acquired through all these years of your life. But someone else might come up with a polar opposite of this interpretation. Believing in "wahee" necessarily doesn't only mean one believes in a written scripture placed in one's hands, it also means one looks up for guidance and inspiration from a Higher Being. Thats at least how I tend to view it. So even with all the "aqal" and all the experience we might gather in our respective lives we still can't get out of our skin and claim to know all. Not even in a single sphere of life. We can't even give conclusive statements regarding verses of the Quran because we are after all humans and our "aqal" indeed has shortcomings. Over the years we do adapt and are well suited to respond to the world we live in but we also lose our objectivity and no matter how much we might disagree our "aqal" has a part to play in that. There is no such thing as "aqal-e-Kul" in my opinion.

 

[Mughal1]

I'll merely give my opinion on the topic. Believing in one's own intellect or "aqal" can't be denounced but like everything else even that has limitations. Secondly, not two people on this planet are carbon copies of each others and neither all of us share all our beliefs and opinions with each other so even our "aqal" is in a consistent clash with that of someone else's. For example, you have given examples of which words in the Quran are metaphors and for what they truly stand for but that is again your understanding of the topic which you have acquired through all these years of your life. But someone else might come up with a polar opposite of this interpretation. Believing in "wahee" necessarily doesn't only mean one believes in a written scripture placed in one's hands, it also means one looks up for guidance and inspiration from a Higher Being. Thats at least how I tend to view it. So even with all the "aqal" and all the experience we might gather in our respective lives we still can't get out of our skin and claim to know all. Not even in a single sphere of life. We can't even give conclusive statements regarding verses of the Quran because we are after all humans and our "aqal" indeed has shortcomings. Over the years we do adapt and are well suited to respond to the world we live in but we also lose our objectivity and no matter how much we might disagree our "aqal" has a part to play in that. There is no such thing as "aqal-e-Kul" in my opinion.

Thank you very much for sharing your beautiful thoughts sister Aamna dear.

In my view the Quran is very special book if we study it in depth.

In it coming to common terms is told by Allah.

al-Imran 3:64

the origin of human knowledge is also told about in the quran.

an-Nahl 16:78
al-Mu`minun 23:78
al-Mulk 67:23
al-Furqan 25:44
al-Baqarah 2:78
al-Hajj 22:46
Yunus 10:36
al-Jumu`ah 62:5
al-Hajj 22:3
al-A`raf 7:179

and many more verses.


truth has come and falsehood is to perish
Saba` 34:49
al-Isra` 17:81



besides verses like these there are many verses which tell mankind to observe universal realities and learn lessons from them. Not only that there are verses that are keep appealing to people who have learned sense to see if this quran is from Allah or not.

In each and every place the quran condemns those who do not use their God given brains and senses to learn and do thing for their own betterment as a proper human community.

Such verses or not odd one or two but hundreds spread throughout the quran.

Why an ignorant, illiterate and uneducated person will write such verses in the quran and which book in the world has such verses in it that muhammad could have copied them from those?

The quran constantly invites mankind to observe things and think. A book that wants to educate people out of their ignorance how can it mislead people? Even if there is something that gives us some cause for concern we should investigate it to see if it is the book that is saying it or is it because someone has masked its message for some reason by way of misinterpretation and misrepresentation. This is what the book tells us within itself. The author of the book already knew people pervert messages and use them as a tool to use and abuse each other using the name of God.


The main point made here is that the quran does not tell people it is me you should follow blindly instead it gives primary place to sense of making sense of things and then appeals to mankind look at the information it contains and then see what conclusion you reach.

In other words the quran provides mankind with intellectual basis to judge things including the quran. If the quran stands on intellectual basis through construction and deconstruction and reconstruction process only then it becomes authority for mankind to live by.

Have we got any book that is of similar nature to the quran in the world today?

This is why no man is authority on the quran unless one properly understand the quran. Anyone who claims to be authority on the quran will be found out by depth and width of his knowledge. This shows mullahs are no authority on the quran because they never had sufficient knowledge to interpret and present the quran properly. To understand divine knowledge one has to have intellectual capacity and capability. Baby minded people talking about the quran be they muslims or nonmuslims can only look funny talking about the quran.

It is like a kid from a primary school giving lectures to phds. That is why it is fun listening to such people.

regards and all the best

 

[--,-'{@]

Aqal by meaning means intellect, intellactaluaity depends on ones openness and thirst of knowledge. but one should feel knowledge first before attempting to learn it.

 

[Khan_patriot]

It is my belief that ''wahee'' comes to only those with ''aqal'', no ''wahee'' has come on an ignorant person, I am not just talking about the Prophetic wahees but also about any knowledge Allah blesses a person with, the information may be spiritual guidance, scientific knowledge or just general guidance, Allah has made striving for a task the prerequisite to its completion, so the basis of human knowledge is neither wahee or aqal it is striving for them that gives you knowledge....
Allah says in the Quran:
''Man can have nothing but what he strives for''-Al-Quran

 

[Darth Vader]

OP DO you have Aqal ? What kind of question is that Wahee is a different thing its a knowledge passed by Allah to his chosen person How people will belive if the person is mentality not healthy people will say hes just making that Up

and Aqal is minds ability to show whats wrong and right , solve problems etc

 

[jaibi]

The 'base' of human knowledge is neither, it's curiosity. As Aristotle remarks, 'Man by nature is a curious being.' Whether we quench that curiosity by revelation or reason is a different matter. The only thing is that we ask, not answer.

What is basis for human knowledge, wahee or aqal?

A very important thread for deciding the issue once and for all, so please participate and share your ideas so that we could learn from each other.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Leader]

human knowledge is based on observation, we developed into what we are..

 

[Kompromat]

Knowledge is the baby of critical thinking.

 

[Arya Desa]

kismet