What if India buy F-21: JF-17 vs F-16E

[mingle]

India would be overburdening its air force if it buys F-16/F-21. The logical thing for India is to buy around 100 Rafale's & continue with the LCA MK2 project.

Any chance of F16 for Pak Daniyal? How about if we go for F21 ? Not talking about money

 

[Keysersoze]

India would be overburdening its air force if it buys F-16/F-21. The logical thing for India is to buy around 100 Rafale's & continue with the LCA MK2 project.

This the smartest comment here. Unfortunately for India the Rafale is now mired in the standard Indian corruption scandal. So look for 3-4 years before any follow up order. The LCA will still be chugging along until I retire...

 

[SABRE]

Any chance of F16 for Pak Daniyal? How about if we go for F21 ? Not talking about money

Now, who is Danyal? This is the second time I am being called by that name.

I don't think Pakistan has any chance of getting F-21, or F-16V, or F-16IN/PN, or F-16G/H, or whatever designation they want to come up with, not unless we come up with big billions. We can go around buying older F-16s but the question of weapon system will haunt us. Air Forces don't just need a punch factor, they also need a prestige factor to maintain a psychological advantage. F-16 is both the punch and prestige element of PAF, but its waning also due to turbulent relations with the U.S. PAF needs to consider European system i.e. Eurofighter. Our pilots have experienced the aircraft. Question is of funding.

 

[Signalian]

PAF needs to consider European system i.e. Eurofighter. Our pilots have experienced the aircraft. Question is of funding.

Daniyal, I agree with you on EF2000 but let the JF-17 Block III roll out and fly first.

 

[SABRE]

This the smartest comment here. Unfortunately for India the Rafale is now mired in the standard Indian corruption scandal. So look for 3-4 years before any follow up order. The LCA will still be chugging along until I retire...

If Modi wins he'll place more orders citing the current conflict. If Congress wins they'll likely renegotiate the contract & reword it, but in reality, no substantial changes would be made, and then they too will order more Rafales. Ambanis are more powerful than Modi or Rahul Gandhi. They are kingmakers & financial masterminds behind Modi's premiership. Rafale is their project. It's difficult for Rahul Gandhi to tackle them. In fact, he is likely to fall in line with them ASAP if he wins & wants to maintain his premiership.

Daniyal, I agree with you on EF2000 but let the JF-17 Block III roll out and fly first.

One more person calls me Daniyal I'll carry out a surgical strike.

Its not for me to let the Block III role out & fly first and then consider EF option. It's for PAF. All I am saying we need a Punch+Prestige element. PAF needs to think about that.

 

[xyxmt]

why dont India buy JF-17 from Pakistan, phir to takar ka muqabla hoga na, no more excuses

 

[FuturePAF]

Jf 17 vs f-21 will be an interesting and equally matching competition.

But for indian pilots it will take 5 to 7 years in order to come on equal footing with paf jf 17 pr f-16 pilots provided israeliz or americans teach them tactics.

If they dont teach india it would be 10 to 15 years of learning curve for mastery of f-16/f-21

If the Turks are allowed to upgrade Pakistan's F-16's with their AESA radar, EW equipement, and IFF/COMMS from their F-16 & TFX Projects, then it will be nearly a match for the F-21. AESA equipped JF-17 can train well enough gainst these F-16s and develop tactics use and counter all the advanced features and weapons that India could field.

 

[mingle]

Now, who is Danyal? This is the second time I am being called by that name.

I don't think Pakistan has any chance of getting F-21, or F-16V, or F-16IN/PN, or F-16G/H, or whatever designation they want to come up with, not unless we come up with big billions. We can go around buying older F-16s but the question of weapon system will haunt us. Air Forces don't just need a punch factor, they also need a prestige factor to maintain a psychological advantage. F-16 is both the punch and prestige element of PAF, but its waning also due to turbulent relations with the U.S. PAF needs to consider European system i.e. Eurofighter. Our pilots have experienced the aircraft. Question is of funding.

Sorry I thought u the same guy run le Sabre twitter account if u not then sorry Man.if we have money for EF I assure u American won't let us go for EU option.

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

If the Turks are allowed to upgrade Pakistan's F-16's with their AESA radar, EW equipement, and IFF/COMMS from their F-16 & TFX Projects, then it will be nearly a match for the F-21. AESA equipped JF-17 can train well enough gainst these F-16s and develop tactics use and counter all the advanced features and weapons that India could field.

latest chinese Radars for JF-17 and J-10 aircraft are far superior to any radars or avionics offered on any F-16 by usa israel or turkey.

there are things which most people are not saying publically but JF-17 new blocks late 2019 they will be superior to F-21 in avionics and radar complexities.

chinese are being modest but they have come very very far from what they were 10 years ago.

 

[HAIDER]

I dont know what indian planners are thinking ... Indian inventory:

Rafale
su30 MKI
Mig 29
Mig 27
Tejas
Mirages
Jaguar
Mig 21

Now they are still looking for atleast three further type of aircrafts that needs to be different from above

5th generation platform
naval aircraft
Mid-weight aircraft

This is insane ... Only Mig 21 are for immediate retirement rest will stay atleast for a decade (as jaguar are being upgraded)

also Sea Harrier ... a maintenance nightmare ...

 

[Fawadqasim1]

We need 36 j10c's immediately

 

[Musalman]

What if Phuphi Jeera had testicles???
She would have been Taya Zahir !!!!!

 

[LeGenD]

F-21/F-16 Block 70 is much more advanced than our vipers; vastly different machines on the whole, and structural similarities are superficial.

Pakistan need something much better than JF-17 Thunder block III to counter these TBH, but we should not be alarmed because Indian bureaucracy is not up to the task. They are adept in screwing deals.

 

[FuturePAF]

latest chinese Radars for JF-17 and J-10 aircraft are far superior to any radars or avionics offered on any F-16 by usa israel or turkey.

there are things which most people are not saying publically but JF-17 new blocks late 2019 they will be superior to F-21 in avionics and radar complexities.

chinese are being modest but they have come very very far from what they were 10 years ago.

While we still operate the F-16s we should look at modest upgrades that will keep them relevant. They will also allow the PAF to test Turkish/Nato/US weapons and electronics with JF-17's with Chinese weapons and electronics.
Through this experience, different tactics can be developed. Finally upgrading the F-16s is a cheaper option for Pakistan.

The Turks have their own BVR and WVR missile programs, and if/when the US stops selling Aim-120 and Aim-9 missiles or only sells older models, then the PAF can just buy modern Turkish Missiles.

Down the line, If Turkish Sub-Systems work out well for the PAF F-16s, they have the potential to be integrated on to the JF-17 if PAF finds a way around sharing source codes of the radar and missiles. Turkish sub-systems sales to the PAF will make the JF-17 look more attractive to nations in the Turkish sphere of influence.

Countries like Azerbijian will have all the more reason to go for the JF-17.

An interesting country Pakistan and Turkey should court is Somalia. There is a lot of potential there and for Pakistan Somalia can be an ally that gives Pakistan a foothold in Africa and an extension of CPEC. There is already a Turkish Military base in Mogadishu.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia–Turkey_relations

A Pakistan Army, Naval and Air Base in Somalia could create a post from which to maneuver military assets against India; such as submarines, ships, and long range fighter/bombers armed with long range anti-shipping cruise missiles. It would be a great way to protect the Pakistani EEZ from the south and outflank the Indian navy. Ethiopia operates 14 Su-27s and 10 Mig-23s. A strong and united Somalia can also be a partner for the Saudi Military alliance, and prevent Yemeni rebels from crossing over and operating from Somalia against the Saudis. Therefore a Pakistani contingent there, working with the Somalis can be beneficial for Somalia, Pakistan, Turkey and Saudi Arabia. (p.s. Pakistan will be more careful to protect its troops, unlike what happened to the Pakistani peacekeepers in the 90's)

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Daniyal, I agree with you on EF2000 but let the JF-17 Block III roll out and fly first.

Thanks for the clarification....