What happened When Right-wing activist Tried to Raise Indian Flag in Occupied Kashmir

[axisofevil]

It is not my opinion. Kashmir is internationally accepted disputed territory. You can remain in denial.

The only person in denial is you and your kind. Whats stopping your kind from taking over Kashmir from weak India LOL

 

[Areesh]

"Have to....."? Really? Our constitution and our rules already exist in Mumbai and Delhi. Did you mean Karachi and Islamabad by any chance? I ask in the hope that you find these helpful. Like your election administrators found the advice of our Election Commission helpful.



Nobody "gives" freedom. And nobody "gives freedom" when the matter has been decided several times over and when the main sponsor and financier of these urges has herself agreed that the matter is not to be internationalised. But some of us have short memories.



And it is not numbers alone.



Thank you for your comment about low Indian IQ. It is curious that you can say this about a nation that has displayed extreme tolerance on more than one occasion against a constantly provocative neighbour. Possibly that extreme tolerance is what makes you call the tolerant low IQ. That is a conclusion that you share with fringe fascist elements in Indian society. It is nice to see that the enemies of democracy in both states agree.




It is precisely this that will ensure that none of these sectarian urges get any hearing, or any legitimation.



It is we deciding, and partition happened with our consent; if you are unaware of the facts, I can refer you to the necessary printed documentation. Your nation consists of a collection of territories that were all hostile to partition until the eleventh hour. The consent of the NWFP was determined by a plebiscite where the pro-Indian former administration abstained totally from voting, and where the result was 51% for inclusion in Pakistan. Less of this ill-informed comment would be helpful and aid discussion. And the converse.

Looks like a rant. Should I answer it??

By the way NWFP is now KPK. And it is happy with Pakistan.

The only person in denial is you and your kind. Whats stopping your kind from taking over Kashmir from weak India LOL

Kashmiris are already fighting our war. Pakistan would take the rest at the right time. World is not ending today anyways.

 

[axisofevil]

Looks like a rant. Should I answer it??

By the way NWFP is now KPK. And it is happy with Pakistan.



Kashmiris are already fighting our war. Pakistan would take the rest at the right time. World is not ending today anyways.

LMAO....been waiting....you think Kashmiri's are fighting your war? Have you ever been to Kashmir, or just spewing a bunch of BS you see on youtube? It is pretty peaceful for the most part. Those who do not like it there can leave anytime. Any let them try to raise a Pakistan flag on our soil.....we won't be so peaceful in the future. They are only surviving because we allow them to do so. The moment they cross the boundaries, they know their lives will change forever. We haven't even begun to use tactics that Israelis and Pakistani have been using. Just imagine when and if we do...LMAO.


Sure its never the right time....despite 4 attempts by your country. The only reason its not the right time, is because you have never been successful. Remember that...anyways goodnight.

 

[Areesh]

LMAO....been waiting....you think Kashmiri's are fighting your war? Have you ever been to Kashmir, or just spewing a bunch of BS you see on youtube? It is pretty peaceful for the most part. Those who do not like it there can leave anytime. Any let them try to raise a Pakistan flag on our soil.....we won't be so peaceful in the future. They are only surviving because we allow them to do so. The moment they cross the boundaries, they know their lives will change forever. We haven't even begun to use tactics that Israelis and Pakistani have been using. Just imagine when and if we do...LMAO.


Sure its never the right time....despite 4 attempts by your country. The only reason its not the right time, is because you have never been successful. Remember that...anyways goodnight.

Typical bharati rant full of denial and BS. I like ostrich attitude of you Bharatis. There is curfew in Srinagar right now but hey look it is peaceful. Well even a graveyard is peaceful.

Writing LMAOS in the post isn't going to hide the fact that 4 civilians have been killed in last 36 hours by Indian security forces including a 70 year old lady and the whole valley was lock down.

We were unsuccessful but still hold more than 85000 sq km of someone's atoot ang. Oh well!!! Our enemy is in denial. Let it remain the same till the dawn of freedom.

 

[Kaniska]

Morons can be seen in everywhere .Of Course there are plenty of them in India also.
But you cant generalise entire Indians because of them.Having said that ,the current demographic structure in valley was totally manipulated .Majority of Hindus and other minorities from valley was tortured ,molested or killed by foreign and local militants .Rest of them where found refugee in Jammu and Delhi .
India is created by a constitution that is solely based on democracy ,secularism ,freedom etc .Means citizens have all rights in here .Total freedom .So if some brainwashed people try for a separartism in our nation ,after receiving all these benefits .Sorry we cant allow that .
I am damn sure ,a patriotic Pakistani like you will also have that same opinion ,if some brainwashed people in some parts of your country tries for something like that.

In ours case ,religion is not an issue .We neutralized such delusions when those Sikhs tried for the same .Tommorrow if some Hindus tries for that we will oppress them.
That is a necessary for our national integrity and security.

Spot on...Morons are every where and also within our society too...But the bigger question is about the Kashmir valley Muslims radicals who staged such an event where all the Non Muslims are kicked out of their own home land...So when we are dealing such kind of violent people, the reaction will be violent and all the maniacs will always have a field day too.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Spot on...Morons are every where and also within our society too...But the bigger question is about the Kashmir valley Muslims radicals who staged such an event where all the Non Muslims are kicked out of their own home land...So when we are dealing such kind of violent people, the reaction will be violent and all the maniacs will always have a field day too.

Unfortunately, @Areesh , he is right; there has been a turn in the situation. Literally hundreds of Kashmiri students study in non-Kashmiri India, starting from Jammu, all through the north and into the south. They don't go east except to Bangladesh, for medical and dentistry courses. There are hundreds of 'non-Kashmiris' studying in Kashmir as well. After last week's incidents, there is no longer any leeway for softness and sentiment, and they will be hurt if they continue. Kashmiri students first behaved exactly as they had accused others of behaving to them, as an arrogant, brutal majority. The moment they did that, we lost years of building up mutual trust, they lost years of accrued goodwill.

Now Kashmiris are not trusted outside. Their loss.

 

[dadeechi]

Unfortunately, @Areesh , he is right; there has been a turn in the situation. Literally hundreds of Kashmiri students study in non-Kashmiri India, starting from Jammu, all through the north and into the south. They don't go east except to Bangladesh, for medical and dentistry courses. There are hundreds of 'non-Kashmiris' studying in Kashmir as well. After last week's incidents, there is no longer any leeway for softness and sentiment, and they will be hurt if they continue. Kashmiri students first behaved exactly as they had accused others of behaving to them, as an arrogant, brutal majority. The moment they did that, we lost years of building up mutual trust, they lost years of accrued goodwill.

Now Kashmiris are not trusted outside. Their loss.

a fight between Kashmiris and non--Kashmiris is not a loss or gain for either of the parties. It's a net gain for Pakistan at the end of the day.

 

[Spectre]

Unfortunately, @Areesh , he is right; there has been a turn in the situation. Literally hundreds of Kashmiri students study in non-Kashmiri India, starting from Jammu, all through the north and into the south. They don't go east except to Bangladesh, for medical and dentistry courses. There are hundreds of 'non-Kashmiris' studying in Kashmir as well. After last week's incidents, there is no longer any leeway for softness and sentiment, and they will be hurt if they continue. Kashmiri students first behaved exactly as they had accused others of behaving to them, as an arrogant, brutal majority. The moment they did that, we lost years of building up mutual trust, they lost years of accrued goodwill.

Now Kashmiris are not trusted outside. Their loss.

Sometimes I feel it's a like marriage b/w couples who hate each other. The fact is that there is no moral high ground for anyone. It would be better if GoI assimilates Kashmir leaving aside all humanitarian concerns, past promises, hopes for reconciliation etc. Open the flood-gates, force in hordes of landless from UP, Bihar, MP.. After a view years of bloodshed it will all be over.
It is just self harm when we pretend that may be some day there will be peace in Valley, that some day Kashmiris will come around to Indian point of view and we would live happily together.

 

[Kaniska]

Sometimes I feel it's a like marriage b/w couples who hate each other. The fact is that there is no moral high ground for anyone. It would be better if GoI assimilates Kashmir leaving aside all humanitarian concerns, past promises, hopes for reconciliation etc. Open the flood-gates, force in hordes of landless from UP, Bihar, MP.. After a view years of bloodshed it will all be over.
It is just self harm when we pretend that may be some day there will be peace in Valley, that some day Kashmiris will come around to Indian point of view and we would live happily together.

Exactly...take a bold step ...allow Kashmir to choose their destiny...or take another bold step and just open flood of people from Bihar, UP and north India to migrate to Kashmir...There will be pain for initial 10 years, but after than life will be better...

 

[Joe Shearer]

a fight between Kashmiris and non--Kashmiris is not a loss or gain for either of the parties. It's a net gain for Pakistan at the end of the day.

That is only from the point of those who believe that Pakistan is part of the equation. In conversation after conversation, stone-pelters and agitationists have come out straight and admitted that their support for Pakistan's lost little boys of international cricket, for that matter, their support for a West Indies win, was intended to needle; they don't really want it, they want us to think they want it, and want us to resent that.

This is between us. Having failed in 1947-48 to shake the Kashmiris themselves, having tried again in 1965 and got their bottoms soundly kicked, they took to the Quisling route and spent billions in buying over and propping up an Islamist faction. The crimes against the Kashmiri Pandits was a direct consequence. Today they exist only as a stick to beat the rest of India with, and to sucker the Navlakha-Roy-Peer set of apologists, and to offer occasional hosting for short-lived excursionists.

I suggest that you join fora like MVJKL and Kashmir Bare Truth and find out for yourself.

Sometimes I feel it's a like marriage b/w couples who hate each other. The fact is that there is no moral high ground for anyone. It would be better if GoI assimilates Kashmir leaving aside all humanitarian concerns, past promises, hopes for reconciliation etc. Open the flood-gates, force in hordes of landless from UP, Bihar, MP.. After a view years of bloodshed it will all be over.
It is just self harm when we pretend that may be some day there will be peace in Valley, that some day Kashmiris will come around to Indian point of view and we would live happily together.

This is not constitutionally possible. Read Noorani on Article 370; that might cool your ardour. I admit that it is an attractive prospect for the easily-exhausted, but it is not possible.

Exactly...take a bold step ...allow Kashmir to choose their destiny...or take another bold step and just open flood of people from Bihar, UP and north India to migrate to Kashmir...There will be pain for initial 10 years, but after than life will be better...

Read below.

These bold steps don't exist in reality, any more than bold steps to make retaliatory strikes against Pakistani terrorist training centres every time there is an attack in India. They exist only in the wistful imagination of those brought up on an unrelenting saga of Israeli derring do against Palestinians. We are not Israelis, people peering at us from across the border are not Palestinians.

 

[Roybot]

No matter what india tries, kashmiris will keep thrashing india. Forget about tringa they will tear even india. Sooner or later indian occupier terrorists have to sink in gutter sewer lines.

But I thought there were over 900000000 Indian soldiers brutally oppressing the Kashmiris

 

[Spectre]

That is only from the point of those who believe that Pakistan is part of the equation. In conversation after conversation, stone-pelters and agitationists have come out straight and admitted that their support for Pakistan's lost little boys of international cricket, for that matter, their support for a West Indies win, was intended to needle; they don't really want it, they want us to think they want it, and want us to resent that.

This is between us. Having failed in 1947-48 to shake the Kashmiris themselves, having tried again in 1965 and got their bottoms soundly kicked, they took to the Quisling route and spent billions in buying over and propping up an Islamist faction. The crimes against the Kashmiri Pandits was a direct consequence. Today they exist only as a stick to beat the rest of India with, and to sucker the Navlakha-Roy-Peer set of apologists, and to offer occasional hosting for short-lived excursionists.

I suggest that you join fora like MVJKL and Kashmir Bare Truth and find out for yourself.



This is not constitutionally possible. Read Noorani on Article 370; that might cool your ardour. I admit that it is an attractive prospect for the easily-exhausted, but it is not possible.



Read below.

These bold steps don't exist in reality, any more than bold steps to make retaliatory strikes against Pakistani terrorist training centres every time there is an attack in India. They exist only in the wistful imagination of those brought up on an unrelenting saga of Israeli derring do against Palestinians. We are not Israelis, people peering at us from across the border are not Palestinians.

What a mess. It bears noting that authors of our constitution intended Article 370 as a bandage which should be ripped off once the wounds heal but ofcourse the Kashmiri leadership interprets it differently. Another mistake was going to UN. We did great things with our constitution and for that time it was a monumental achievement which help bind our nation together but some mistakes continue to haunt us. It is Article 370 which has kept the Kashmir issue frozen in time.

Legally there are ways around it, they might not uphold the spirit but if Supreme Court acquiesces constitutional amendment can pushed through Parliament. However the current electoral dynamics will not allow it.

Three legacy issues Article 370, Uniform Civil Court and Reservations are holding India back.

I am aware I sound a like a RSS spokesperson now but please don't let it undermine the need for reform.

P.S. I have no burning ardour but concern which is on the verge of turning into apathy.

P.P.S Israel is not a role model for India that is if we don't want India to be threatened existentially. Keeping in mind our substantial minority population, an Israel like approach would leave nothing but ashes.

 

[Hiptullha]

Incredible how the world-renowned Indian love for human rights and acceptance is shattered when flags are raised, angry slogans are chanted and the cry of freedom is sounded by a people who happen to be in India.

 

[halupridol]

Exactly...take a bold step ...allow Kashmir to choose their destiny...or take another bold step and just open flood of people from Bihar, UP and north India to migrate to Kashmir...There will be pain for initial 10 years, but after than life will be better...

do u seriously think they have it in thm to settle thr
if GOI grows some ballz,,,thn better to settle northeastern tribes(preferably nagas) in laddakh atfirst(ofcourse as laddakhis )
let thm flourish for a decade,,,n see the results

 

[Joe Shearer]

What a mess. It bears noting that authors of our constitution intended Article 370 as a bandage which should be ripped off once the wounds heal but ofcourse the Kashmiri leadership interprets it differently. Another mistake was going to UN. We did great things with our constitution and for that time it was a monumental achievement which help bind our nation together but some mistakes continue to haunt us. It is Article 370 which has kept the Kashmir issue frozen in time.

Legally there are ways around it, they might not uphold the spirit but if Supreme Court acquiesces constitutional amendment can pushed through Parliament. However the current electoral dynamics will not allow it.

Three legacy issues Article 370, Uniform Civil Court and Reservations are holding India back.

I am aware I sound a like a RSS spokesperson now but please don't let it undermine the need for reform.

P.S. I have no burning ardour but concern which is on the verge of turning into apathy.

P.P.S Israel is not a role model for India that is if we don't want India to be threatened existentially. Keeping in mind our substantial minority population, an Israel like approach would leave nothing but ashes.

Let us look just at Article 370. There are serious misunderstandings on account of this article in the Indian Constitution.

1. 26th October 1947.
2. The historical background: Maharaja Hari Singh's accession document and his covering letter form the legal basis for Kashmir to be considered part of India.
   1. The accession document is a document copied from one earlier provided within the scope of the similar provision for accession within the Government of India Act 1935.
   2. The provisional constitution for the Union of India or the Dominion of India from 15 August 1947 to 26 January 1950 was the Government of India Act 1935.
   3. The covering letter was, and is an integral part of the accession of Kashmir to India.
3. The Maharaja's accession to India, and consequent surrender of his sovereignty over Jammu & Kashmir, was restricted to three items only, defence, foreign affairs and communications.
4. He made it clear that he would progressively deal with the other aspects of administration. At no point did either he or the Kashmir administration give away their sovereignty to India wholesale.

Three documents are of importance here: the Document of Accession, the Maharaja's covering letter, and the reply to this letter by the Governor General, Lord Mountbatten.

If it is desired, these can be copied into the record for ready reference. Otherwise we can move on with the rest of the argument.

To continue:

After the exchange of letters, and against the backdrop of military action being taken by the Indian Army, the Maharaja issued an Emergency Administration Order on 30th October 1947, appointing Sheikh Mohammed Abdullah as the Head of the Administration; on the 5th March 1948, he issued a Proclamation appointing a Popular Interim Government, and the Proclamation mentioned that a National Assembly should be called based on universal suffrage, and the Assembly should frame a Constitution for his people.

What did this mean?

It meant, clearly, that the J&K Constituent Assembly (the National Assembly mentioned above) would draft a Constitution for acceptance by the sovereign power, and that Constitution should contain a detailed description of the arrangements under which the State would be administered, forsaking Defence, Foreign Affairs and Communications, over which sovereignty had already passed to the Dominion of India.

Now, where does Article 370 fit into all this?

Article 370 is simply the mechanism by which the Indian Constituent Assembly, then busy framing the over-arching Indian Constitution, had in mind for shifting around subjects belonging to the Centre, subjects belonging to the State and subjects on the joint list. All other rulers, with this unique exception, had agreed to be assimilated and the shifting of subjects relating to all these other territories was governed - is governed - by Article 368.

That is all there is to it. Article 370 decides how subjects are to be transferred or whose responsibility should be shifted from the original administrator to a new one.

To continue with the narrative,

1. The State of J&K had acceded to India in 1947 only in respect of Defence, Foreign Affairs and Communications.
2. Negotiations were held on 15 May 1949 and 16 May 1949 at the Deputy Prime Minister's residence, on Kashmir's future set-up.
3. Pandit Nehru and Sheikh Mohammed Abdullah were both present.
4. The two major subjects of discussion were
   1. The framing of the Constitution for the State
      1. On this, Nehru wrote on 18 May that both Patel and he agreed that this was a matter for the State's Constituent Assembly
   2. The subjects in respect of which the State should accede to the Government of India
      1. Nehru's letter states,"....In regard to (ii) the Jammu and Kashmir now stands acceded to the Indian Union in respect of three subjects: namely, foreign affairs, defence and communications. It will be for the Constituent Assembly of the State when convened, to determine in respect of which other subjects the state may accede."
      2. Article 370, as noted above, governs and embodies this basic principle.