what does the Pak armed forces realiticially need to counter india conventially

[thrilainmanila]

i was thinking about what the armed forces really need, to be able to match india conventionally, and I failed to think of any realistic solution.
The biggest issue is the navy/airforce, in order to hold our own against them the airforce would need atleast 100+ 4-5 generation aircraft in addition to the F-16s and JF-17BLK3s(the other blocks seem incapable of doing much) the navy would need a similar type of strike wing, and the army would need a massive Air defence network akin to what the arabs had agaisnt israel in 73. And with all this said none of what i stated is realistic.
i can see the pak army in its current form holding its own against the indian army if there was no air support for the indians but with constant airsupport the IA would be recieving it would only be a matter of time.

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

First and foremost we need armed forces that stick to defending the borders and not interfere in the politics, domestic and foreign policies of Pakistan !

 

[acetophenol]

i was thinking about what the armed forces really need, to be able to match india conventionally, and I failed to think of any realistic solution.
The biggest issue is the navy/airforce, in order to hold our own against them the airforce would need atleast 100+ 4-5 generation aircraft in addition to the F-16s and JF-17BLK3s(the other blocks seem incapable of doing much) the navy would need a similar type of strike wing, and the army would need a massive Air defence network akin to what the arabs had agaisnt israel in 73. And with all this said none of what i stated is realistic.
i can see the pak army in its current form holding its own against the indian army if there was no air support for the indians but with constant airsupport the IA would be recieving it would only be a matter of time.

1. An Army thats under Pakistan and not a Pakistan under the Army

2. A good economy

3. A good political leadership

4. Industrial base and infrastructure

 

[thrilainmanila]

1. An Army thats under Pakistan and not a Pakistan under the Army

2. A good economy

3. A good political leadership

4. Industrial base and infrastructure

i agree i think the society needs massive reform, there are massive sections of society which are intolerant, they'll never be any kind of real investment with such racial prejudices. Another point is that the country relies heavily on china, there needs to be more flexibility IMHO.

 

[Humble Analyst]

1. An Army thats under Pakistan and not a Pakistan under the Army

2. A good economy

3. A good political leadership

4. Industrial base and infrastructure

1)No corruption
2) No cross border terror support by India and Afghanistan
3) Capable and honest leadership
4) Unity, faith and discipline
5) Army to be part of National Security council of Pakistan
6) More budget for clean cities and drinking water
7) Navy & Air Force budget to increase.

 

[Bossman]

First and foremost we need armed forces that stick to defending the borders and not interfere in the politics, domestic and foreign policies of Pakistan !

1. An Army thats under Pakistan and not a Pakistan under the Army

2. A good economy

3. A good political leadership

4. Industrial base and infrastructure

Are you a traitor to your own country?

 

[MastanKhan]

i was thinking about what the armed forces really need, to be able to match india conventionally, and I failed to think of any realistic solution.
The biggest issue is the navy/airforce, in order to hold our own against them the airforce would need atleast 100+ 4-5 generation aircraft in addition to the F-16s and JF-17BLK3s(the other blocks seem incapable of doing much) the navy would need a similar type of strike wing, and the army would need a massive Air defence network akin to what the arabs had agaisnt israel in 73. And with all this said none of what i stated is realistic.
i can see the pak army in its current form holding its own against the indian army if there was no air support for the indians but with constant airsupport the IA would be recieving it would only be a matter of time.

Hi,

That is a great thread to start-----. In the 73 war---the weakest link of the Egyptians was their air force and because of their air force---actually the lack of it----or poor quality air force---they got the ultimate thrashing---.

So---same is the case with Pakistan air force----it is not our navy---it actually is our air force that is the weakest link in our armor----.

It desperately lags in heavy strike capability---and specially against an enemy with 3 times the military might.

Even in wars of 1965 and 71---Pakistan air force had heavies according to that time and had fighters that were superiorly equipped and pilots better trained----the F86 with the sidewinders---that was a massive plus---. In 71---even though india had the mig21's---their pilots were under trained.

The SA missile umbrella is wonderful to have and is very important----but it has to be complimented by heavy aircraft---because in the 73 war---after the Egyptian army moved out form under the SA missile umbrella----the heavy aircraft of that time---the Phantoms----slaughtered the MIG21's like there was no tomorrow---.

 

[Bad Guy]

@Bossman no he's just chilling.
@thrilainmanila
JFTs aren't meant for any type of air superiority.
JFT is low cost, so, PAF can induct it in large numbers.
First you guys should improve your economy, make a dense road and rail network and then, make peace with us. Why everybody in green forums always things of wars.
India has many more important issue to care about instead of messing with western neighbours.
I believe Pakistan should also have.

 

[acetophenol]

i agree i think the society needs massive reform, there are massive sections of society which are intolerant, they'll never be any kind of real investment with such racial prejudices. Another point is that the country relies heavily on china, there needs to be more flexibility IMHO.

Reliability on China isn't that heavy as it may seem i guess,US has been there for Pakistan too,one way or the other. As long as there is Russia,US and China,Pakistan will not be left without a shoulder to rest on IMO,there will be one or the other. Overall,I agree with what u said bro

1)No corruption
2) No cross border terror support by India and Afghanistan
3) Capable and honest leadership
4) Unity, faith and discipline
5) Army to be part of National Security council of Pakistan
6) More budget for clean cities and drinking water
7 Navy & Air Force budget to increase.

1. Too unrealistic :p
2. Pakistan does its share of dirty tricks too, and as long as both nations continues its enemity from birth,these things are gonna vw there

Agree with all the rest points

Are you a traitor to your own country?

I am an Indian, and I will never betray my country.

Hi,

That is a great thread to start-----. In the 73 war---the weakest link of the Egyptians was their air force and because of their air force---actually the lack of it----or poor quality air force---they got the ultimate thrashing---.

So---same is the case with Pakistan air force----it is not our navy---it actually is our air force that is the weakest link in our armor----.

It desperately lags in heavy strike capability---and specially against an enemy with 3 times the military might.

Even in wars of 1965 and 71---Pakistan air force had heavies according to that time and had fighters that were superiorly equipped and pilots better trained----the F86 with the sidewinders---that was a massive plus---. In 71---even though india had the mig21's---their pilots were under trained.

The SA missile umbrella is wonderful to have and is very important----but it has to be complimented by heavy aircraft---because in the 73 war---after the Egyptian army moved out form under the SA missile umbrella----the heavy aircraft of that time---the Phantoms----slaughtered the MIG21's like there was no tomorrow---.

I think add to that, adequate detection capabilities- from satellites to RADARs must also be there, locally produced as well as purchased ones. I believe Pakistan lacks in this regard (correct me if i am wrong)

 

[Bossman]

History tells us otherwise, Operation Parakram by India was a total failure. Even after Mumbai attacks, India could not do any thing. Even with conventional disparity the cost to the Indians for attacking Pakistan is too high. All the ideas in the postings above are bull$hit. Operation Cold start has been neutralized.

An Indian telling Pakistan, how to successfully fight India is either a traitor to his country or an oxymoron or simply an moron.

 

[$@rJen]

History tells us otherwise, Operation Parakram by India was a total failure. Even after Mumbai attacks, India could not do any thing. Even with conventional disparity the cost to the Indians for attacking Pakistan is too high. All the ideas in the posting above are bull$hit.

Operation Parakram only aimed at mobilizing troops in short time which at that time gave a physiological fear to Musharraf who then agreed to freez the terror funding.

What you want us to enter in a war and ruin our economy just because of a usual terror strikes from pakistan!! Remember the costs of 71 you had to pay when India was prepared for war

 

[Bossman]

Operation Parakram only aimed at mobilizing troops in short time which at that time gave a physiological fear to Musharraf who then agreed to freez the terror funding.

What you want us to enter in a war and ruin our economy just because of a usual terror strikes from pakistan!! Remember the costs of 71 you had to pay when India was prepared for war

India is very good at spinning facts and fooling themselves. Indians lost 1500 men during operation Parakram without firing a bullet in anger. Its like their military projects, when they fail they all become technology demonstrators. The only thing Hindus can been proud of over the last 1,000 years is 71. 71 made Pakistan stronger. Today we are a bigger threat to Indians than before 71, so what did India gain from 71? Any way we did not loose to India in 71 we lost to 50 million bengalis, who did not like us anymore. India were just the facilitators. India is all about hot air and bollywood drama. No real balls.

 

[Syed_Adeel]

First and foremost we need armed forces that stick to defending the borders and not interfere in the politics, domestic and foreign policies of Pakistan !

Great thinking but in past 7 years we have seen that politicians are totally incapable of handling the issues. moreover they are always ready to rob the country's wealth and fly away. Army should also not perform the policing in cities, infra structure development, disaster management, flood releif as well but thats happening because of our failed politicians and institutions. Army is the only well stablished institution left so people look at them in any bad time. so we need a real leadership then army's role will be limited to borders automatically.

 

[HariPrasad]

There is foreseeable scenario where Pakistan can counter India. The Gap is widening day by day. In navy, there is absolutely no comparison so is in Air force. PA army can give some resistance for a while.

 

[Bossman]

There is foreseeable scenario where Pakistan can counter India. The Gap is widening day by day. In navy, there is absolutely no comparison so is in Air force. PA army can give some resistance for a while.

Go read history. Whenever india was invaded from the West, the attacking armies were always smaller in size than the defenders but the defenders almost always lost. India has had aircraft carriers since the 50s but during wars they usually never leave their ports.

Pakistan has countered India conventionally for the last 68 years and will continue to do so.