What does it mean to be Pakistani?

[White and Green with M/S]

Pakistan was made in 1947, while Pashtuns, Punjabis, Sindhis, and Baloch have existed for 1000s of years.

Its not division, it is just facts.

Yes but this issue is divided all

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Yes but this issue is divided all

How is it an issue if it is something you are born with

 

[White and Green with M/S]

How is it an issue if it is something you are born with

Its dividing Pakistani nation as a whole

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Its dividing Pakistani nation as a whole

It is a natural division, not a superficial one.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

It is a natural division, not a superficial one.

But it has a bad effect on Pakistani nation as a whole

I'm from Karachi, muhajir but didn't suppose as a muhajir myself I called myself first Muslim and than Pakistani after that I have no identity

 

[Fish]

In Germany, they have taken ownership of the wrongs Hilter committed. We on the other hand, are banning books because they don’t confirm to the official state narrative: https://www.thenews.com.pk/amp/321060-history-book-banned-for-controversial-material.

There are two sides of the 1971 Indo-Pak war. India had a keen interest in dividing East and West Pakistan, and for a lot of reasons. And to peddle their narrative and fuel the civil war, they made-up these fantastic stories about Pakistan Army committing all sorts of atrocities to Bengalis.

And Mujibur Rahman was more than happy to oblige and become a puppet. After all, who wouldn't want to be the 'founder' of a country, their faces plastered on currency notes and postage stamps?!

And the thing about propaganda is that it's extremely difficult - if not impossible - to counter. If I wrongfully accuse someone of something, half the damage has already been done. And the journalists are essentially vultures, always looking for the next hot topic.

And let me ask you something: How exactly can Pakistan Army "prove" that they "did not" commit atrocities in 1971?

That's the power of propaganda, my friend. That's how Nazism spread like wildfire back in the days and that's why Neo-Nazisim is still very real. The Germans essentially pioneered modern-day state propaganda via the use of radio, films, pamphelts, and media.

As for current events, US media did and does discuss controversies surrounding government actions. There are no restrictions placed on anyone from criticizing or questioning any government or military action. Here channels are forced to ban IK despite court orders not to do so while free social media is banned.

If you think the U.S media is completely free and not at all forced to follow a certain political narrative then... well, you should know better:

 

[Rusty2]

It's like being stuck in an insane asylum where everyone is trying to figure out how to get out. But when you recommend we should take our medicine and behave normally, like other people. You get laughed at, called a boot licker and given death threats.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Pakistan is a diverse country. We have multiple nations, ethnicities, faiths—even though powerful quarters have, over the years, tried to limit this diversity thru various failed experiments and actively limiting freedom of expression. Narratives cannot be controlled in 2023. We should realize that in diversity is strength.

Heard this before somewhere - now where was it?

The force that binds us together should be the Constitution—not the army, or even religion. Yes, Islam is the state religion, but we cannot force upon a specific interpretation of Islam on the people. Hence, religion has been devisive, not unifiying.

This is getting interesting.

Have read and heard this one, too.

With recent events and violation of the Constitution becoming the norm, what are the real sentiments of the different peoples of Pakistan? I am specially interested in KPK. What makes the people of KPK feel attachment to Pakistan? Do most people feel Pakhtun first and Pakistani second?

Awesome. Now I remember where I heard those other bits.

Question - localised and modified - Will the Tamils feel Tamil first or Indian first?
Question - will the Telugus of Hyderabad and of Andhra feel Telugu first or Indian first?
Also for the Malayali, the Santal, the Gond, the Maria, the Bengali, the Sikkimese, the Nagas, the Meitei, the Mizo and the six tribes in Arunachal.

 

[Joe Shearer]

With recent events and violation of the Constitution becoming the norm, what are the real sentiments of the different peoples of Pakistan? I am specially interested in KPK. What makes the people of KPK feel attachment to Pakistan? Do most people feel Pakhtun first and Pakistani second?

Awesome. Now I remember where I heard those other bits.

Question - localised and modified - Will the Tamils feel Tamil first or Indian first?
Question - will the Telugus of Hyderabad and of Andhra feel Telugu first or Indian first?
Also for the Malayali, the Santal, the Gond, the Maria, the Bengali, the Sikkimese, the Nagas, the Meitei, the Mizo and the six tribes in Arunachal.

The 18th ammendment was supposed to be the answer. Federalism when implemented properly is the only way forward. How different are the current cirumstances from 1971 when the will of the people was blatantly ignored. I don’t see the army allowing the Constitutionin to be followed and the PTI coming to power in KPK thru the vote. What will happen next? We have been thru two coups since 1971. Pakistan survived those. Will it be different this time? Will there be armed resisitance? Will the army shoot down unarmed civilians? I am not aware of Balochistan, but it feels like there is a chance KPK might rise up if their Constitutional rights are trampled.

So creepy to read this, as every constitutional safeguard is being overwritten by the thugs in Delhi and the UP.

I am from Karachi; my grandparents were mohajirs. In school I was fed the propaganda of the Pakistani state. In reality there are really not many things that make me feel proud to be a Pakistani. If the state cannot ensure that my views are heard, that the rule of law and Constitution is followed, that my life is made better, I would be better of living in a Karachi that was independent. Unfortunately, none of the people that have represented us have been sincere. Then there is the establishment—who sees itself as the ”unifier”—who will not allow us to have our fundamental rights.

Word for word, fitting the Indian situation.

 

[Imran Khan]

Its shameful to be a pakistani

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Look at my signature it's both a Shikwa and umeed.

 

[Joe Shearer]

India had a keen interest in dividing East and West Pakistan, and for a lot of reasons.

Who came and whispered this in your ears?
Have you a single shred of evidence, other than your fantasies and nightmares, that any Indian thought any such thing?

And to peddle their narrative and fuel the civil war, they made-up these fantastic stories about Pakistan Army committing all sorts of atrocities to Bengalis.

If you are the kind of disgrace to your nation that calls these massacres an imagined story, ask your seniors on this forum. They will correct you.

And Mujibur Rahman was more than happy to oblige and become a puppet.

Until the last moment, until the moment he was taken into military custody, he stood for Pakistan. Listen to his speeches. They are still available all over the Internet. That is, if your own seniors do not help you get rid of these stupid illusions.

 

[Joe Shearer]

What an utterly enfuriating experience, to have a smart-arse kid denying the slaughter of thousands, the driving out of 10 million refugees, of a movement for equal rights that was bludgeoned into becoming a struggle for independence.

How is it that there are still deniers of the events of 71 in Pakistan? Is it all carefully concealed from school and college students?

 

[Fish]

What an utterly enfuriating experience, to have a smart-arse kid denying the slaughter of thousands, the driving out of 10 million refugees, of a movement for equal rights that was bludgeoned into becoming a struggle for independence.

How is it that there are still deniers of the events of 71 in Pakistan? Is it all carefully concealed from school and college students?

Ah...

Well, honestly, I can't expect much from Sanghis all charged up by Godi Media's propaganda! Obviously, you're going to blindly believe in the carefully orchestrated narrative. Heck, I'd be surprised if you didn't, heh!

But the fact is that our troops didn't have the numbers nor any 'incentive' to commit all those atrocities.

The number of 93,000 soldiers that is talked about has been conflated with civilians. West Pakistani civilians who were present in large numbers in former East-Pakistan were taken over into custody by Indian army to protect them from revengeful Bengali crowds and Mukit Bahni.

It was also helpful in putting meat to the story of three million killed, hundreds and thousands of rapes and genocide. An army of less than 40,000, spread over a large theatre of conflict under attack from guerrillas supported by Indian army was hardly in a situation of doing what it was accused of.

Another US congressman, Stephen Solarz, commenting on the War of 1971 in June 1989, remarked,
“Pakistanis are energetic, vibrant, and resilient. We must not be misled by 1971. It was certainly not possible for the 40,000 odd Pakistani army in Dhaka to fight against much larger Indian army and Indian-trained Bengali Bahinis in a hostile territory ….”

Source: https://www.globalvillagespace.com/93000-pakistani-soldiers-did-not-surrender-in-1971-because/

And... Indian Army running in, trying to save their "Muslim Brothers" in distress while completely overlooking their own atrocities in Kashmir?

You can't make this stuff up!

Oh, and there's also this book "Dead Reckoning" by Sarmila Bose, if you want to know what's real and what's fiction.

Toodles!

 

[Krptonite]

Ah...

Well, honestly, I can't expect much from Sanghis all charged up by Godi Media's propaganda! Obviously, you're going to blindly believe in the carefully orchestrated narrative. Heck, I'd be surprised if you didn't, heh!

But the fact is that our troops didn't have the numbers nor any 'incentive' to commit all those atrocities.







Source: https://www.globalvillagespace.com/93000-pakistani-soldiers-did-not-surrender-in-1971-because/

And... Indian Army running in, trying to save their "Muslim Brothers" in distress while completely overlooking their own atrocities in Kashmir?

You can't make this stuff up!

Oh, and there's also this book "Dead Reckoning" by Sarmila Bose, if you want to know what's real and what's fiction.

Toodles!

If you're going to whitewash atrocities, may I suggest reading about the Hamoodor commission report. It was an initiative led by GoP as such it should be an acceptable source for you.

There are also stamps issued by GoP quoting the Pow number, although that would be the total number of prisoners of war which included civilians, civil officials as well as military personnel.

Your officers have also gone on record by stating that IA prevented reprisals against PA officials and military personnel. The number for Bangladeshi civilian deaths might possibly be exaggerated by propaganda but to deny it in its entirety would be just as false.

Global village spaces would take a backseat compared to these sources, you can also avail the library of sources here where this particular topic has been discussed to death by Pakistani members more knowledgeable than you and I.