Indus Pakistan
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- May 7, 2012
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In another forum a person claming to be Chinese member made the following remark when in conversation with a Indian member.
"Unfortunately Chinese people used to look down on India and Pakistan culture and economic backwardness. Nowadays chinese people see India as a possible trade partner and future economic power but also a strategic competitor. India is also provoking China by encouraging Tibetan seperatists and fielding a secret Tibetan army of some 10-20 thousand strong.
About Pakistan ... Go to Baidu forums and see how chinese people see Pakistanis as. Pakistanis are seen as Indian muslims who are even backward than arabs. They are mocked everyday. But Pakistan is an ally of China. During the worst period of China Pakistan was there as a friend. Pakistan maybe a cesspool of stupid backward arab worshipping people but they have proved to be a loyal friend. You reward your loyal friends even if they are *******s to everybody else."
This could be a rant of one single individual who might not even be a Chinese. Nevertheless this got me thinking. What do Chinese really think of Pakistani's? I don't mean the fancy speaches at diplomatic functions like "friendship higher then mountains la la". That is just business and in business you even deal with people who you find disgusting.
What I mean is the real sentiment beyond the official headlines and what the normal Chinese citizens think of Pakistanis. The problem here is most of us know what the average American, British, Australian or even Europeans like French or Germans think because English is the prevalent language and Pakistani's have a large diaspora communities living there and thus are a very effective barometer of their thoughts.
Chinese are differant. Until recently it a country that is so close officially but so far unofficialy. There has been far less intereaction with the real China then the the West by Pakistani's. So in a sense what Chinese think of Pakistani;s is to large degree masked and insultated from average Pakistani.
Is this important? Yes it is. Whilst business is above everything but the problem is for a long term strategic relationship to develop and mature at differant levels also requires a sense of goodwill between people. Once upon a time USA is also enjoyed a very strong relationship with Pakistan but under it all at the ground level there was friction. Most Americans did not find average Pakistani agreeable. This friction on the ground would along with other factors lead to where we are today.
I guess what I am saying is if Chinese dislike us in private than this China/Pak thing is only going to go so far before the internal contradictions start showing up. There is a essential differance between Chinese and the West. Chinese tend to be more introverted in their thinking and ae not prone in showing what they really think. They might hate you but you won't see it behind the smiling face. However in private and in Chinese fora where they are free to say what they want - hardly any outsiders and even less Pakistani's speak Chinese therefore are sealed off from what is really said. This is unlike the Western style of saying it as it is and being quite forthright in their views. Their media is very accessible as English is the most used language.
From the few objective measure we have things don't look pretty. The "higher then moountain" love only seems to be coming from the Pakistani side. The Chinese are not returning those feelings. Indeed shockingly Chinese have far more favourable image of USA then Pakistan despite Pakistani's regarding China as hevean on earth with 78% of Pakistani's - the top on the list with pro China views.
Indeed the Chinese regard Pakistani only slightly above the Indian's. This does not look like "equal love" and that never bodes well for any relationship.
What other countries thought of China. Pakistan came top in holding pro China views.
Is this important? Very much so because any relationship requires the 'likeability factor' for it to sustain and grow into a viable and dynamic relationship. Further, it gives and should give thought to those in positions of power bith in Pakistan and China to work on improving the image of each other by creating positive people to people contacts and or setting up lobby groups which work to find ways to improve the relationship stock in China.
Another rather disturbing fact is that as China prospers millions of Chinese are on the move and form significant numbers of tourists in the world today. The Chinese also tend to spen far more money then other tourists and are also very well behaved on the whole with no gangs of drunks running wild. Therefore they are sought out by tourist destination countries. London, Paris , Turkey , USA and you name it you will see millions of Chinese tourists.
Yet, Pakistan hardly is getting any Chinese tourists. What does this show? Chinese business interests are in Pakistan but their heart is in other places. Indeed I have not checked but I suspect more Chinese visit India then they do Pakistan. This possibly cannot be because Pakistan does not have fantastic sites - we have some of the best in the world but why are the Chinese avoiding coming to Pakistan - a country where they would be welcome with open arms?
There is no issue here on the business side of the relationship. The survey below shows most Chinese are supportive of more cooperation with Pakistan.
I invite thoughts on thos from senior Pak members and Chinese members. This is a serious issue that despite being uncomfortable needs looking at so that this problem can be addressed. What do they say? Accepting you have a problem is half of the solution.
"Unfortunately Chinese people used to look down on India and Pakistan culture and economic backwardness. Nowadays chinese people see India as a possible trade partner and future economic power but also a strategic competitor. India is also provoking China by encouraging Tibetan seperatists and fielding a secret Tibetan army of some 10-20 thousand strong.
About Pakistan ... Go to Baidu forums and see how chinese people see Pakistanis as. Pakistanis are seen as Indian muslims who are even backward than arabs. They are mocked everyday. But Pakistan is an ally of China. During the worst period of China Pakistan was there as a friend. Pakistan maybe a cesspool of stupid backward arab worshipping people but they have proved to be a loyal friend. You reward your loyal friends even if they are *******s to everybody else."
This could be a rant of one single individual who might not even be a Chinese. Nevertheless this got me thinking. What do Chinese really think of Pakistani's? I don't mean the fancy speaches at diplomatic functions like "friendship higher then mountains la la". That is just business and in business you even deal with people who you find disgusting.
What I mean is the real sentiment beyond the official headlines and what the normal Chinese citizens think of Pakistanis. The problem here is most of us know what the average American, British, Australian or even Europeans like French or Germans think because English is the prevalent language and Pakistani's have a large diaspora communities living there and thus are a very effective barometer of their thoughts.
Chinese are differant. Until recently it a country that is so close officially but so far unofficialy. There has been far less intereaction with the real China then the the West by Pakistani's. So in a sense what Chinese think of Pakistani;s is to large degree masked and insultated from average Pakistani.
Is this important? Yes it is. Whilst business is above everything but the problem is for a long term strategic relationship to develop and mature at differant levels also requires a sense of goodwill between people. Once upon a time USA is also enjoyed a very strong relationship with Pakistan but under it all at the ground level there was friction. Most Americans did not find average Pakistani agreeable. This friction on the ground would along with other factors lead to where we are today.
I guess what I am saying is if Chinese dislike us in private than this China/Pak thing is only going to go so far before the internal contradictions start showing up. There is a essential differance between Chinese and the West. Chinese tend to be more introverted in their thinking and ae not prone in showing what they really think. They might hate you but you won't see it behind the smiling face. However in private and in Chinese fora where they are free to say what they want - hardly any outsiders and even less Pakistani's speak Chinese therefore are sealed off from what is really said. This is unlike the Western style of saying it as it is and being quite forthright in their views. Their media is very accessible as English is the most used language.
From the few objective measure we have things don't look pretty. The "higher then moountain" love only seems to be coming from the Pakistani side. The Chinese are not returning those feelings. Indeed shockingly Chinese have far more favourable image of USA then Pakistan despite Pakistani's regarding China as hevean on earth with 78% of Pakistani's - the top on the list with pro China views.
Indeed the Chinese regard Pakistani only slightly above the Indian's. This does not look like "equal love" and that never bodes well for any relationship.
What other countries thought of China. Pakistan came top in holding pro China views.
Is this important? Very much so because any relationship requires the 'likeability factor' for it to sustain and grow into a viable and dynamic relationship. Further, it gives and should give thought to those in positions of power bith in Pakistan and China to work on improving the image of each other by creating positive people to people contacts and or setting up lobby groups which work to find ways to improve the relationship stock in China.
Another rather disturbing fact is that as China prospers millions of Chinese are on the move and form significant numbers of tourists in the world today. The Chinese also tend to spen far more money then other tourists and are also very well behaved on the whole with no gangs of drunks running wild. Therefore they are sought out by tourist destination countries. London, Paris , Turkey , USA and you name it you will see millions of Chinese tourists.
Yet, Pakistan hardly is getting any Chinese tourists. What does this show? Chinese business interests are in Pakistan but their heart is in other places. Indeed I have not checked but I suspect more Chinese visit India then they do Pakistan. This possibly cannot be because Pakistan does not have fantastic sites - we have some of the best in the world but why are the Chinese avoiding coming to Pakistan - a country where they would be welcome with open arms?
There is no issue here on the business side of the relationship. The survey below shows most Chinese are supportive of more cooperation with Pakistan.
I invite thoughts on thos from senior Pak members and Chinese members. This is a serious issue that despite being uncomfortable needs looking at so that this problem can be addressed. What do they say? Accepting you have a problem is half of the solution.
