What can India Do About Pakistan?

[kadamba-warrior]

Actually, it was India that began the drama with the rhetoric after the tests in 1998.

I don't know which Indian rhetoric/drama you are referring to, but wasn't it the Pakistani Ambassador to the UN that very famously threatened India with Nuclear strike on the floor of UN back in 2002, barely after his country needlessly dragged India into Kargil bloodshed, followed by LeT's terror attack on Indian Parliament?

At UN, defiant Pak threatens to use Nuke - timesofindia-economictimes

There are a million things that you can fault Indian establishment for, but threatening Pakistan (or anybody else for that matter) with Nuclear weapons isn't one of them.

When it comes to Nuclear weapons, India not only has a declared NO-FIRST-USE policy, but has been extremely careful with her utterances on the matter and hence I find your comment not entirely true.

What else is expected of India, in addition to NO-FIRST-USE policy even as Pakistan refuses to reciprocate, in order to be a mature and responsible Nuclear power?

As I said, both nations need to mature beyond their sanctimonious attitude and realize on what deathwish they both sit on.

Like I said earlier, India has absolutely no say in that "deathwish". It is entirely a creation of Pakistan, unless you consider India holding onto Kashmir, with her dear life, itself to be a deathwish.

 

[airmarshal]

Talk and dont be an idiot like your Indian PM is. After all, India and Pakistan will have to talk. Posturing works for some time and then these two countries sit across the table and talk.

Actually, you cant do anything to Pakistan but strive to have good neighborly relation. Thats the only way forward. Like it or not, we will be each others neighbors and we cant change this neighborhood and move somewhere else.

 

[Hurter]

Indians have been shitting about Pakistan for 68 years but their butt holes are really scratching since the CPEC deal.Indian funded terrorism in Pakistan is coming to an end.Baloch militants are throwing their weapons.TTP is breathing its last.RAW agents are being tortured.India can't do shit about Pakistan.Pakistan just need to sit back and see Indians itching with progress of CPEC and economy.As the time is passing the burn is increasing.

 

[SQ8]

I don't know which Indian rhetoric/drama you are referring to, but wasn't it the Pakistani Ambassador to the UN that very famously threatened India with Nuclear strike on the floor of UN back in 2002, barely after his country needlessly dragged India into Kargil bloodshed, followed by LeT's terror attack on Indian Parliament?

At UN, defiant Pak threatens to use Nuke - timesofindia-economictimes

There are a million things that you can fault Indian establishment for, but threatening Pakistan (or anybody else for that matter) with Nuclear weapons isn't one of them.

When it comes to Nuclear weapons, India not only has a declared NO-FIRST-USE policy, but has been extremely careful with her utterances on the matter and hence I find your comment not entirely true.

What else is expected of India, in addition to NO-FIRST-USE policy even as Pakistan refuses to reciprocate, in order to be a mature and responsible Nuclear power?



Like I said earlier, India has absolutely no say in that "deathwish". It is entirely a creation of Pakistan, unless you consider India holding onto Kashmir, with her dear life, itself to be a deathwish.

As I said, sanctimonious.
I mentioned 1998 and the original Indian tests, but as is typical of South Asians.. total eyewash when it comes to their own actions.

 

[kadamba-warrior]

As I said, sanctimonious.
I mentioned 1998 and the original Indian tests, but as is typical of South Asians.. total eyewash when it comes to their own actions.

One party has a declared NO-FIRST-USE policy while the other not only refuses to have a NO-FIRST-USE policy, but her establishment regularly makes open threats about usage of Nuclear weapons! I don't understand how you can clump them together in the "typical South Asian" basket!


And I sincerely don't get what exactly you are referring to as India's own actions, but if you are referring to India's own Nuclear tests, I believe that you, of all people, know very well that India faces much bigger threat from China than even Pakistan. You can't fault Indians for testing their weapons, just the same way I can't fault Pakistan for their own tests.

Besides, when India tested her devices back in 1998, everybody knew that Pakistan already had all the necessary components for their own tests. How else could Pakistan test their weapons in a mere fortnight?

Nuclear tests, by both countries, were only mere formal announcements of their long-acquired capabilities.

 

[vsdoc]

No first use is doctrine.

It has little correlate to the sequence of actions leading up to an actual nuclear exchange.

Especially for countries which store strategic nukes in component form.

 

[coffee_cup]

But then again...
Their cause was different,they did for the tamilians in SL. They would have done it anyway even if they were Buddhists.

Blowing up alone is not the criteria. Blowing up with 'Allah uh Akbar' is the issue. The Japanese blew up while hitting American ships. But not in the name of God of Mercy/Love.
...

Here come more "pearls of wisdom" from our self-righteous Indian neighbors,

First they make tall claims that hindus terrorists never blow themselves up. And once pointed out that it were the hindu terrorists who introduced suicide bombings in the region, they claim because it is not for "Allah uh Akhbar", therefore it is somehow "harmless".

So in other words blowing oneself up for "Hare Krishna" is kosher.

Oh man, you indians do not surprise us anymore!

 

[SarthakGanguly]

So in other words blowing oneself up for "Hare Krishna" is kosher.

Yup. It does not happen. Killing in the name of God is the most dangerous.

 

[IceCold]

Btw, it's not arrogance brother, it's just that I (rather many of us) have stopped believing that these 'peace talks' have any value, yeh sab karne se kuch honewala to hai nehi, bekar mein time waste karna....

As I said before talks should be done only through back channel, no media no hype no rhetoric. I would as a Pakistani not mind if India would want to engage Pakistani army as well through back door channels.

 

[coffee_cup]

Yup. It does not happen. Killing in the name of God is the most dangerous.

LOL.

Whatever dude, go on chant "Hare-Krishna" and blow yourself up, if that takes you to SWARG (or whatever you call it).

The families of the deceased who have lost their loved ones due to hindu suicide terrorist bombers do not give a tiny rat's a$$, what they chanted before blowing themselves up.

Pathetic how right-wing hindus are trying to justify their terrorists!

 

[SipahSalar]

But then again...
Their cause was different,they did for the tamilians in SL. They would have done it anyway even if they were Buddhists.
***
Did you edit your post??

NO, the let me guess part was in the original post.

 

[ito]

I say buy time...not engage Pakistan in any serious manner....put pressure on Pakistan on Mumbai and terrorism....and wait for the time when Pakistan comes to its senses or makes a serious mistake.

 

[Viny]

View attachment 250277

Yaaaawnnn...
Wake up and smell the coffee!!!
This is not a Disney movie which will end in a "....and they lived happily ever after" situation.
We should stop living in this illusion that some day Pakistani army will change its belligerent attitude towards us and there 'll be peace. Oops! I meant the Pakistani government.
Call me a pessimist but expecting our cultural affinities and Bollywood to help reduce the animosity between the 2 countries is a fatuous notion.
The issue is.... Pakistan is slipping deeper into a quick sand of terrorism and there's a desperate need for progress, I see this as the root of all problems.
Let me give you an example...
what happens when you have a capricious half brother who is not settled in his life???
He'll fight with you often and would go to great extent to snatch your ancestral property (Kashmir in this case).
This is exactly what is happening!!!

I hope the much hyped Gwadar, which right now looks like their last hope, pulls Pakistan out of this mess. That will work in India's favour.
But since no amount of cajoling and pressuring has helped bring Pakistan to the table is there a solution to this problem??
Yes!
The solution is to stop thinking about Pakistan for sometime. Trust me, ignoring works better than anything else in a relationship. Oh pls! Stop rolling your eyes.
Our neighbour/ half brother needs to be ignored for sometime.
This would help India concentrate on what it should be concentrating more right now, our internal problems.
Also this might help Pakistan to introspect and concentrate on their issues.
There are times when I wished we could knock sense into vacuum filled brains of their politicos (and some of ours too). Sigh
wondering why???
We Indians are blessed with good genes, ahem.. I meant baniya genes. We are good investors and our half brothers are not. They have been investing all their hard earned money on some "freedom fighters" in INDIA, who have now turned against them. Has it helped?? Of course not!!

I've no idea why India feels so guilty every time a peace talk fails. Do we see the same reaction from politicos and beuracarats from across the border??? NO.
Take a chill pill India!!!
Relax and concentrate on your issues.


*******
Come on Pakistan!!!
For your own good and ours get over this hatred.
They say the only thing that is constant is change.
I hope some day a wind of change will bring India and Pakistan together again and there will be peace.
Inshallah!

I think its not in best of india's interest to ignore pakistan for few year, given that Modi is trying to build good global relations and encircling the pakistan, avoiding talks with pakistan will send a negative signals. Rather calling pakistan to table every time, is seen as positive step from india and if pakistan jumps out, it gives a negative image of pakistan, which favours India in the game plan. Strong diplomatic relations with the countries that influnces pakistan will give us better standing when bringing pakistan to table.

Completely ignoring the power that hindu extremists enjoy in India and have been doing all they can to destablize not only Pakistan but also other neighboring countries in the region, who do not take Indian line, shows the non-seriousness of your post.

The biggest problem as I see is exactly those extremist hindus who have never accepted Pakistan in the first place and still dreaming of some mythical country Maha Baharat. As long as this mentality is there, and they continue exporting terrorism in the region as means of pressure, I see no hope for peace in the region.

Yes even I am pessimist looking at the direction where India is heading...

Brother, when was last time you heard an hindu suicide attack on muslim?
If there is strong hatredness from certian extremist muslims from across the borders, then its human to see some emotionally charnged up responses from indian Hindu's. And if this group of hindus are constantly pressed for sure there beliefs will get harden which will lead to formation of polarized section.

Every day riots take place in India and pretty much in most of these riots Muslims are killed. In small small and low level riots to major ones in most Muslims are targeted and killed

Please change your media source, its filling in shit into your brain.

See this is exactly the problem with you Indians, this "holier than thou" attitude.

If you come down the high horse, you will start seeing the reality. Here I have a news for you, the suicide bombings by blowing oneself up were introduced in the region by your extremist proxies much before people in the region even knew that such things exist..

Rajiv Ghandi, himself a victim of such bombing would have gladly endorsed. So much of Hindu extremists do not blow themselves up!

There is a difference between individual target killing and blowing oneself in market place or shooting kids in schools.

Well, the issue remains and Im sure you'll agree with me. Both populations seem to be TOTALLY and absolutely unaware of the horrors of the "bum". Unlike the US and Russia where two generations were fed the effects of "duck and cover" and shown what happens.. neither India or Pakistan are mature enough or going to be in the near future to come up with anything like this( Do we even have any semblance of civil/federal defence in India? I know some farce of it exists in Pakistan)

Yups,
Pakisthan has "Allah ho Akbar" and India has "Jai Bajarang Bali"

Pakistan should seek for 3 conditions for talks with India:

- Try Modi for war crimes for Gujrat massacre.
.

Modi went through trial for Gujarat Issue and came out clean chit. So thats taken care off.

- Make Rahul Ghandi prime minister
.

Unlike Pakistan, the Prime minister is decided by the people of India. Armed forces dont decide that.

- IOK reintegrated back into Pakistan for the greater peace of the region.
Then there will be everlasting peace.

Kashmir is just a face to hide the religion based hatredness.
You can see how people at PDF come back attacking Hindu, where as most of indians on pdf attack on "pakistanis" and not muslim specifically.

 

[IceCold]

@IceCold Arrogance is a term that applies when a smaller power defies a bigger one.
Why on Earth you think India needs to be arrogant with Pakistan ? India is simply disapproving.

I have explained the reasons earlier in my 1st post. Before now India except its bigger size did not enjoy any superiority over Pakistan, now with its growing economy and the opening of the West who sees it as a counter to China, India has started seeing itself as a regional power with all the new military gear that is on offer to India and hence the arrogance.

Let me give you an example why i think India has become arrogant, if you see a decade ago or 90s did you ever heard anyone in your country talking about doing surgical strikes or cross border raids inside Pakistan? Even by your hyper active media? The answer will most probably be No, at least back than I never heard of this term. It was only after 2008 that this term was first used by India and now with Modi in power, we are seeing a step further, a Commando style raid killing or capturing Hafiz Saeed. To top it all Indians actually believe that their country can pull this one off without any repercussions.

The temperature and mood that is set in New Dehli is a dangerous one and not matter how weak you think Pakistan is at this moment in time, i can assure you such strike by India will not go without a response.

 

[nForce]

I have explained the reasons earlier in my 1st post. Before now India except its bigger size did not enjoy any superiority over Pakistan, now with its growing economy and the opening of the West who sees it as a counter to China, India has started seeing itself as a regional power with all the new military gear that is on offer to India and hence the arrogance.

Let me give you an example why i think India has become arrogant, if you see a decade ago or 90s did you ever heard anyone in your country talking about doing surgical strikes or cross border raids inside Pakistan? Even by your hyper active media? The answer will most probably be No, at least back than I never heard of this term. It was only after 2008 that this term was first used by India and now with Modi in power, we are seeing a step further, a Commando style raid killing or capturing Hafiz Saeed. To top it all Indians actually believe that their country can pull this one off without any repercussions.

The temperature and mood that is set in New Dehli is a dangerous one and not matter how weak you think Pakistan is at this moment in time, i can assure you such strike by India will not go without a response.

You just did not have proper media penetration back then. For example, Siachen happened in the mid-80s.