What area of the country pays what percentage of total tax?

[nahtanbob]

It doesn't matter what ever the volume is, im simply stating that port is just like a border, and trades happen through maritime or by land. custum duty is paid whether its shipped via land or via sea port.


so is newyork, so is mumbai, san francesco are you trying to say that Karachi is the financial hub solely because it has a port?

regards

san francisco is not a port. Oakland is the main port

 

[Sine Nomine]

karachi is the main port of pakistan. am i missing something ?

I would break that for you;
It's a major port all heavy dealing is done through there.
Main export of Pakistan is fabrics,produced in a city in Punjab,second are agri products produced in whole of country but Punjab has more agri area.

 

[krash]

So for instance, if Engro paid a certain amount of tax, would that ve counted as tax collected from Sindh because the head office is in Sindh? Or does it take into account the massive revenue generated from fertilizer sale in Punjab as tax from Punjab?

You are right on track. It would be counted as collected from Karachi, it will not show how much of it came from outside of Karachi.

However, more importantly, if tax collected is higher from Sindh and/or Punjab, should Baluchistan and KPK and GB be given lesser power somehow?

No. Federal tax is money owed to the state and in turn to every single individual Pakistani. It is not charity and no one is doing anyone any favors by paying it. A Balochi's tax payed in Balochistan equally belongs to every Pakistani.

What exactly is being hinted at when issues of who pays more tax are brought up? Especially, when such is done without proper in depth analysis?

That Karachi and its people pay for everything in the country.

Btw, at max 1% of Pakistanis pay income tax and so Karachi's situation is of "Andhon mein kana raja". Still, pays more income tax and generates more revenue than any other city, just not in the amounts that many here claim that it does.

When "three markets" in Karachi are paying more tax then whole of Lahore city, it will be interesting to see who is actually paying the bill for all the infrastructure in Lahore, at a time when Karachi is in ruins.

The province of Punjab from its own budget and loans which it generates by itself. You really don't know how the federal budget works, do you? Wise men often advise to stay quiet instead of spreading silly conspiracy theories.

What abut honda sales in sindh, if engro collects punjab taxes as sindh, it also goes for taxes collected from sindh by companies based in Punjab.

regards

Very true. Hence the higher per capita tax collection from Islamabad. However, the head quarters of large companies are overwhelmingly based in Karachi.

There's another caveat. The data is skewed more from a company being based in Karachi than one based in say Lahore. Let's take Honda and Toyota as examples. Not a stretch to assume that the sales would be loosely proportional to the province's respective populations. So, while Honda's collected tax would have 23% share from Sindh being shown as collected from Punjab, Toyota's collected tax would have a 53% share from Punjab being shown as collected from Sindh. Add to that the fact that Toyota sells more cars than Honda and it becomes even more obvious.

Disclaimer: I am not knowledgable about intricacies of the tax system in Pakistan

I am taking a wild guess here. If a tax is levied at the port of import as opposed to the port of sale it will shown up in Karachi's numbers as opposed to the real entity that paid the tax

You are correct. And the sales tax levied on these imports as well. According to FBR, 53% of the revenue collected from Karachi is collected as duties and taxes collected at the two ports in Karachi.

port is every where, wahgah is also a port, if Karach company imports goods from wahgah it will be taxed at wahgah.

Correct. Now take into account that 95% of Pakistan's trade flows through the two ports in Karachi and the situation becomes clear.

lets take an example of central asian landlocked states, do they get entitled for port import/export taxes levied by other country's harbour they use their ports? does afghanstan get entitled for the port duty levied from pakistan?

Pakistan cannot collect duties and taxes for goods that are only using Pakistan for transit. The goods will travel "in bond" through Pakistan and then have the duties and taxes collected at the destination port. If Pakistan does charge an Afghan any form of transit fee for the goods then yes obviously the Afghan will claim those fees as paid by him since he literally is the one paying them.

same goes for karachi as well.

No it does not. When I import an item I myself living outside of Karachi, making my money outside of Karachi, and using that item outside of Karachi will pay the tax on it. How do Karachi and its people claim the tax that I have paid to the federal government as theirs?

The curious thing is, Fed govt which is Punjab based has tried creating mischief like 'dry ports' so custom duty is levied at respective cities like sialkot, faisalabad and not karachi, so Punjab has tried circumventing import/export duties as well.

regards

Do you not even see the blatant bias with which you come up with this nonsense? Firstly, +90% of the duties and taxes collected by FBR are collected at the Karachi ports. Secondly, as is evident from the numbers, dry ports are not built to relocate tax collection portals. Why? Because apart from idiots and their politics, no one cares where it is collected. Only that "it is being paid", "being paid by the correct entity", and "being paid to the correct entity". Thirdly, even if we do believe your childish conspiracy as the truth, how in God's name is it Karachi's right to collect and claim customs duties and taxes being paid by the rest of Pakistan to the federal government? "Hey, l will show the tax you have paid to the federal government as mine. If somehow I cannot, I will call it a conspiracy against me". I'm sorry, that was an idiotic statement.

It doesn't matter what ever the volume is, im simply stating that port is just like a border, and trades happen through maritime or by land. custum duty is paid whether its shipped via land or via sea port.

You are disingenuously and miserably trying to side step basic facts. Karachi collects exponentially more customs duties and taxes at it's port than all the other customs collection centers in the country combined.

 

[Sine Nomine]

port is every where, wahgah is also a port, if Karach company imports goods from wahgah it will be taxed at wahgah.

lets take an example of central asian landlocked states, do they get entitled for port import/export taxes levied by other country's harbour they use their ports? does afghanstan get entitled for the port duty levied from pakistan? same goes for karachi as well.

The curious thing is, Fed govt which is Punjab based has tried creating mischief like 'dry ports' so custom duty is levied at respective cities like sialkot, faisalabad and not karachi, so Punjab has tried circumventing import/export duties as well.

regards

I am going to brust your bubble here,According to Afg-Pak transit deal they get anything via Karachi port as we do though they pay tax to their own country.
There are dry ports but since 2013 all depts at seaports have got power to open sealed containers,almost 80 % export parties have started to send their goods directly to KHI because they can't let their goods being inspected two times before reaching destination.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

The province of Punjab from its own budget and loans which it generates by itself. You really don't know how the federal budget works, do you? Wise men often advise to stay quiet instead of spreading silly conspiracy theories.

No smarty pants, it was genuine question, where all the money Karachi is generating is going to? If three markets in Karachi are generating more tax then entire city of Lahore, and then you look at the miserable condition of Karachi infra, its a genuine worry. All patriots of Pakistan should be asking this question rather dismissing it as a conspiracy theory.

 

[nahtanbob]

No smarty pants, it was genuine question, where all the money Karachi is generating is going to? If three markets in Karachi are generating more tax then entire city of Lahore, and then you look at the miserable condition of Karachi infra, its a genuine worry. All patriots of Pakistan should be asking this question rather dismissing it as a conspiracy theory.

Why is import duty levied on a product being purchased & used in Lahore counts as Karachi's share ?

 

[Morpheus]

@krash let me just correct you with one point.

All these numbers are just income tax. They don't include any federal tax, duty, custom, etc

Rs425bn income tax collected from Karachi

FBR data shows Sindh topped the list of provinces/regions that contributed highest share of income tax — 44.91 per cent.

www.dawn.com

What you are looking at, are taxes that arise from income only

 

[krash]

No smarty pants, it was genuine question, where all the money Karachi is generating is going to? If three markets in Karachi are generating more tax then entire city of Lahore, and then you look at the miserable condition of Karachi infra, its a genuine worry. All patriots of Pakistan should be asking this question rather dismissing it as a conspiracy theory.

In that case,

It is very easy to understand. Everything has been explained by multiple posters multiple times very clearly on this thread already. Tell me exactly which part of it did you not understand and I along with others will do our very best to explain it again.

Salient points so far,

1) The majority of the tax collected in Karachi is not being generated by Karachi. It is being generated by the rest of Pakistan and only collected in Karachi.

2) Karachi pays the most income tax. Unfortunately, it is still peanuts and counts for a fraction of Pakistan's revenue. Less than 1% of Pakistanis pay income tax.

3) The tax is owed partly to the federal government and partly to your own provincial government. The fed gov spends it on fed projects. Your provincial gov spends it on its own projects. It does not go to another province. The projects in Lahore have nothing to do with "Karachi's money".

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Why is import duty levied on a product being purchased & used in Lahore counts as Karachi's share ?

What are you on about? I am talking about the tax generated by the people having domicile of Karachi, the amount they are generating and what they are getting in return. That is the issue. As oppose to those who are hardly generating anything in other areas of Pakistan.

 

[krash]

What are you on about? I am talking about the tax generated by the people having domicile of Karachi, the amount they are generating and what they are getting in return. That is the issue. As oppose to those who are hardly generating anything in other areas of Pakistan.

Let's put that in numbers. The tax generated by "the people having domicile of Karachi" is 37 billion according to that tweet. This, btw, includes the tax paid to the province of Sindh. For arguments sake let's assume that it is all being paid to the Fed gov. The Fed gov's 2020 budget is 7.14 trillion. So "the people having domicile of Karachi" contributed exactly 37 billion/7.14 Trillion*100 = 0.51820728291% towards the budget. Where is the rest of the money coming from?

The income tax Pakistan collects is peanuts. It generates most of its revenue through other means. If you only compare Karachi's income tax with the income tax from other cities you will indeed think that you are paying for everything, while in reality you are paying peanuts (in terms of income tax).

 

[nahtanbob]

What are you on about? I am talking about the tax generated by the people having domicile of Karachi, the amount they are generating and what they are getting in return. That is the issue. As oppose to those who are hardly generating anything in other areas of Pakistan.

Fair enough. Is stuff customs and imports duties included in the figures ?

On a side note I am not a Pakistani. I get the feeling Karachi is being screwed in the internal politics of the land.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Very easy to understand if one wants to. Everything has been explained by multiple posters multiple times very clearly on this thread already. Tell me exactly which part of it did you not understand and I along with others will do our very best to explain it again.

Salient points so far,

1) The majority of the tax collected in Karachi is not being generated by Karachi. It is being generated by the rest of Pakistan and only collected in Karachi.

2) Karachi pays the most income tax. Unfortunately, it is still peanuts and counts for a fraction of Pakistan's revenue. Less than 1% of Pakistanis pay income tax.

3) The tax is owed partly to the federal government and partly to your own provincial government. The fed gov spends it on fed projects. Your provincial gov spends it on its own projects. It does not go to another province. The projects in Lahore have nothing to do with "Karachi's money".

You are still clueless arent you. Allow me to explain, as a karachite who have actally lived there as oppose to those who have no clue about the subject.

1) What we know, the places like Lallu khath and Laiquat Abad are generating more tax then Lahore. And no, they are not your industrial zones like S.I.T.E , rather run down and rough residential areas. Basically you are talking about lower middle class, the shop keepers, people with Karachi domicile, paying their taxes to the state. Rest of the Pakistan doesnt even come into the picture, not sure what you are on about.

2) If state is not willing to tax Pakistanis from the rest of the country and Karachites are considered to be guinea pigs, then it in itself is a problem, not a argument which can be brought forward to support a narrative. The concept of tax payers and the privileges it should entitle to, is simple ignored by the state.

3) See above. Its not an over complicated matter as it made out to be. It all boils down to understanding what being a tax payer actually mean. For instance, in UK, London is the most developed city simply because it generate most taxes for the state. State in return invest back into the city , to keep the hen which lays golden eggs, healthy and strong. Simple logic.

 

[Sugarcane]

I have suggested numerous time Sales taxes and duties must be collected by provinces where goods and services being sold, custom duty must be given to provinces where goods are being imported, Income Tax of corporates operating national should give income tax to provinces as per their sales in respective province, export oriented business should pay income tax to province where their main operations (not office) are located. It will clear all doubts about who is earning what and who is paying bills of other.

 

[krash]

You are still clueless arent you. Allow me to explain, as a karachite who have actally lived there as oppose to those who have no clue about the subject.

Hardly so. A person who is deliberately unwilling to see simple facts dictated to him cannot explain anything. Doesn't matter if he lives in Karachi or Timbuktu.

1) What we know, the places like Lallu khath and Laiquat Abad are generating more tax then Lahore. And no, they are not your industrial zones like S.I.T.E , rather run down and rough residential areas. Basically you are talking about lower middle class, the shop keepers, people with Karachi domicile, paying their taxes to the state. Rest of the Pakistan doesnt even come into the picture, not sure what you are on about.

What you repeatedly are pretending to not get is that tax paid by Karachi is still nothing. While it is far more than what, say, Lahore pays, it forms a small sliver of Pakistan's revenue and its expenditures. And a small sliver of what Karachi would actually owe. Tax revenue is not what builds the projects in Lahore, it will not build them in Karachi. Why? Because it is peanuts. Add to that the fact that Lahore is built on Punjab's own revenue that it generated by itself and it becomes clear that you should stop whining about Lahore and ask your city/regional/provincial government to do what Lahore's has done for it.

2) If state is not willing to tax Pakistanis from the rest of the country and Karachites are considered to be guinea pigs, then it in itself is a problem, not a argument which can be brought forward to support a narrative. The concept of tax payers and the privileges it should entitle to, is simple ignored by the state.

Firstly, Karachites are not paying anywhere near the amounts that they owe. Just because they are the lesser of all the thieves does not mean that they can come trancing in all high and mighty. This is exactly why the rest of Pakistan is not willing to lend you their ear. Stop fooling yourself. Secondly, the state is defunct, it has no system whatsoever. Whatever Karachi pays in fed taxes it pays through the exact same system that Lahore does. Thirdly, the state is not responsible for building neighborhoods, it did not do it in Lahore, it will not do it in Karachi. Again, go complain to your city and then provincial government, to whom you do pay a significant chunk of those 37 billion in taxes. Lahore and Punjab have nothing to do with it.

3) See above. Its not an over complicated matter as it made out to be. It all boils down to understanding what being a tax payer actually mean. For instance, in UK, London is the most developed city simply because it generate most taxes for the state. State in return invest back into the city , to keep the hen which lays golden eggs, healthy and strong. Simple logic.

That is not at all how fed revenue spending works, not in the UK and not in Pakistan. Another example of how you are concocting "facts" out of thin air in matters you have no idea to further your own agenda. "London generates 18% of the UK's output and a similar proportion of tax revenues for the UK. But it only receives some 14% of government spending." London is run and developed by it's own local city government. Heck, it doesn't even spend all of its own money on itself. "The London fiscal surplus, £32.5 billion in 2016–17, mostly goes towards funding services in other parts of the UK". I don't see any Pakistani city ever doing that.

The federal government's job is to cater to the macro interests of the country. If it deems that building of a dam in KPK serves the country better, it can and will build it there. Exactly the same way it built a 2nd port in Karachi when it already had one and not in Ormara instead. Notice how no one cries about it and or plays it as a conspiracy against Balochistan. It is not the fed gov's job to go around placating every infantile tantrum of its people, people who have no clue how things work.

When there is no other consideration then the fed gov will allocate the resources to the provinces, as per Pakistani law and common sense, by dividing them per capita because they belong to every single one of us equally. Otherwise, taxes will not only be spent on the richest cities but on the richest neighborhoods of the richest cities. The poor will die of hunger. The entire notion is moronic.

Look at that, living in Karachi did not afford you any more knowledge or sense.

I have suggested numerous time Sales taxes and duties must be collected by provinces where goods and services being sold, custom duty must be given to provinces where goods are being imported, Income Tax of corporates operating national should give income tax to provinces as per their sales in respective province, export oriented business should pay income tax to province where their main operations (not office) are located. It will clear all doubts about who is earning what and who is paying bills of other.

The issue is that it is not the fed gov's job to start dancing to every idiotic whim of its grossly uneducated citizens. It's job is to instead look after efficiency of its processes, not that it's doing anywhere near a good job at that. If the gov did care about it then all it needs to do is conduct a nationwide audit and publish the findings. I assure you even that will not make the nefarious accept the truth, they are not out for it. It has happened before and I can give specific examples.

Anyone who does want to learn the truth can simply read government records.

 

[peagle]

Hardly so. A person who is deliberately unwilling to see simple facts dictated to him cannot explain anything. Doesn't matter if he lives in Karachi or Timbuktu.



What you repeatedly are pretending to not get is that tax paid by Karachi is still nothing. While it is far more than what, say, Lahore pays, it forms a small sliver of Pakistan's revenue and its expenditures. And a small sliver of what Karachi would actually owe. Tax revenue is not what builds the projects in Lahore, it will not build them in Karachi. Why? Because it is peanuts. Add to that the fact that Lahore is built on Punjab's own revenue that it generated by itself and it becomes clear that you should stop whining about Lahore and ask your city/regional/provincial government to do what Lahore's has done for it.



Firstly, Karachites are not paying anywhere near the amounts that they owe. Just because they are the lesser of all the thieves does not mean that they can come trancing in all high and mighty. This is exactly why the rest of Pakistan is not willing to lend you their ear. Stop fooling yourself. Secondly, the state is defunct, it has no system whatsoever. Whatever Karachi pays in fed taxes it pays through the exact same system that Lahore does. Thirdly, the state is not responsible for building neighborhoods, it did not do it in Lahore, it will not do it in Karachi. Again, go complain to your city and then provincial government, to whom you do pay a significant chunk of those 37 billion in taxes. Lahore and Punjab have nothing to do with it.



That is not at all how fed revenue spending works, not in the UK and not in Pakistan. Another example of how you are concocting "facts" out of thin air in matters you have no idea to further your own agenda. "London generates 18% of the UK's output and a similar proportion of tax revenues for the UK. But it only receives some 14% of government spending." London is run and developed by it's own local city government. Heck, it doesn't even spend all of its own money on itself. "The London fiscal surplus, £32.5 billion in 2016–17, mostly goes towards funding services in other parts of the UK". I don't see any Pakistani city ever doing that.

The federal government's job is to cater to the macro interests of the country. If it deems that building of a dam in KPK serves the country better, it can and will build it there. Exactly the same way it built a 2nd port in Karachi when it already had one and not in Ormara instead. Notice how no one cries about it and or plays it as a conspiracy against Balochistan. It is not the fed gov's job to go around placating every infantile tantrum of its people, people who have no clue how things work.

When there is no other consideration then the fed gov will allocate the resources to the provinces, as per Pakistani law, by dividing them per capita. Otherwise, taxes will not only be spent on the richest cities but on the richest neighborhoods of the richest cities. The poor will die of hunger. The entire notion is moronic.

Look at that, living in Karachi did not afford you any more knowledge or sense.




The issue is that it is not the fed gov's job to start dancing to every idiotic whim of its grossly uneducated citizens. It's job is to instead look after efficiency of its processes, not that it's doing anywhere near a good job at that. If the gov did care about it then all it needs to do is conduct a nationwide audit and publish the findings.

Anyone who does want to learn the truth can simply read government records.

Good luck with these comedians, I swear I haven't laughed so hard for ages, luckily my wisdom tooth extraction yesterday isn't hurting. lol

Nice explanations btw