Featured What are we fighting for?

[H. Dawary]

Whatever it is, just be sure to put your heart into it when that time comes. If your heart is not fully in it then you need to evaluate what you are living for...

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Well freedom of expression is one thing. But freedom of expression morphing into Foreign Intel. funded anti state propoganda is a totally different beast.

Asking for better quality, accessible education is one thing and chanting sab laal laal lehraye ga are very different thinga.

Hope my analogy makes sense.

What are we fighting for?

After a couple of months of a very hard area a couple of us got a few days off and decided to head back to civilization which was filled with a jam-packed car, constant tea stops for our weary souls and countless packs of smokes puffed. Good times. I was accompanying a couple of officers and our senior most offered us to enjoy the scenery of a city that shall remain unnamed. After resting there for a while in our jam-packed rooms and smoking a few more packs with tea that was called, kanjar kisam ki chaye; that’s the best tea I’ve ever had and what it exactly is would only be reveled after proper identification of every member who asks me what it is.

The local resident of the city, an accompanying officer took us sight seeing and we went along enjoying everything. Believe me, after months of being off road and hiking flat carpeted roads are a blessing so are street lights; I was amazed as to why I had never noticed how beautiful civilization actually is. You really appreciate it once you’ve lived without it for a while. It changes you forever.

Later during the day we went to a local university where the officer who was our tour guide had a brother completing their higher education. We enjoyed a good tea break and got some company from the senior students and the young faculty in the cafeteria.

Somewhat normal chitchat

It all started with harmless banter and some conversations which are akin to all Pakistanis: complaining about weather, hating politicians, being experts on sports, uncovering hidden truths and ending with a personal story or networking.

However, then the conversation turned bitter; it’s what you have heard all over: Army eats the budget, Pakistan’s problems are because the military doesn’t let democracy flourish, we’re fighting a military war to a political problem, all of us are millionaires just because of the uniform and it got vile.

Having come fresh from the frontlines it wasn’t unnatural that these comments would get some serious heat back. The words and cigarettes flared; after having come from a combat zone I didn’t really want to participate in another one.

Then, the senior most amongst us asked me to give my opinion, having noticed that I was uncharacteristically quiet and the only one amongst the officers who had a university degree (he later clarified that perhaps the students and officers were speaking very different languages according to him).

Speaking holistically

My view actually comes from that perspective which he clarified; I did understand the students and the officers even if I didn’t agree with them. My point was simple: wars are always humanly costly affairs. I wish we lived in a world where it was never needed but that’s being idealistic. I asked the students how would they talk when just the way they dress and live is unacceptable to the people we’re fighting? They haven’t seen warfare and the toll it has on the population caught in the middle and I told them that those civilians choose to come to us and not them; do you really think they’re not making that choice by considerable deliberation? If we were with the people who’re fighting us then we wouldn’t be talking at all: the students would have a knife meet their jugular or a bullet in their head. There’re no arguments there.

Secondly, I asked my colleagues, why are fighting, sir? If we snub the right to verbalize complaints of our citizenry then how are we any different than those we’re fighting? We’re defending an ideal; we’re fighting to protect the rights of these students to study and explore the world. The fact they feel they can speak to us and this openly is precisely a marker of our victory and we need to respect that. That’s what we’re fighting for.

There was silence at the table as I sipped my tea (not as good as the one I got at our quarters but still good enough).

I asked the students to consider this that we’re not very different from them: just a few years ago we were sitting in institutions same as them. We are your army, not anyone else’s. When you speak to us like we’re strangers then it doesn’t resonate well with us. If we talk with a little more understanding you’d find that we aren’t really that different.

Much to say the mood stayed somber but as we left; my senior said that this is the best thing that came out from this, ‘what are we fighting for? All of us need to ask that question as a citizen of this country. I guess we’re fighting to keep that conversation possible, eh boy?’

That’s the question that I’d like to leave you with as well but with the consideration of being realistic when you try to answer that.

As always, happy foruming, folks.

 

[VCheng]

Does that religion truly demands enforcement? Or implementation of its principles, a guiding framework to refer to while formulating laws of your state?

Clergy is not religion. Shariah is what (merit based selected) legislators of state agree upon and approve, and not words of someone with a confused large following.

That is an interesting, but different question. What must first be answered is whether the State can enforce a religion by force of law but be able to treat all its diverse citizenry as equals before the law. This question determines the very nature of the country that we, as a nation, believe to be fighting for, in the context of this thread.

 

[jaibi]

Can only come if we talk

Well freedom of expression is one thing. But freedom of expression morphing into Foreign Intel. funded anti state propoganda is a totally different beast.

Asking for better quality, accessible education is one thing and chanting sab laal laal lehraye ga are very different thinga.

Hope my analogy makes sense.

 

[fatman17]

Our Last Hope
By NIMRA NAJAM.

I am not blind follower of IK or his government.
He should be critiqued for wrong doings and praised for good.
Those who don’t want a change in this Country, please REFRAIN from reading it.. You will NEVER understand the situations and circumstances!!

There was a generation that sacrificed and gave us a homeland. They even contributed to build it within meagre resources. Then came a generation that elected the likes of Zardari, Nawaz, Altaf, Fazlo and gave the next generation an impression that loot, ethnicity, corruption, fighting for basics is your destiny.

This 3rd generation of Pakistan became detached from Pakistan, its nationalism, its economy, its politics and decided to move out in bulk. The sense of belonging to Pakistan died.

Along came a man who gave this dejected young lot, a sense of belonging to the nation again. He told them its ok if you stay here, its ok if you have to come back - we will rebuild this - he gave them a dream, a hope for a better tomorrow.

Yes, he will make mistakes, yes he will fall and you have all the right to criticize him. Remember he tried to challenge the system for decades, but this 2nd generation never gave him a chance – they laughed and ridiculed him – he did not have a choice but to gather the electables, win support of the mighty establishment, bank on the same corrupt people because this nation would not come out of their “Baradaris”, their Ethnicity, their Petty issues. He hoped, in his leadership, he might bring some good out of these same people for this nation, this homeland.

He is trying his best, taking one day at a time, fighting in the mud, circled around by vultures waiting for the first blood, getting abused on daily basis, questioned over his actions, competence and even intent, getting dejected each day, getting disappointed at the very people around him. His intent is not questionable – but he still doesn’t have much choice and the same pack of scavengers surround him.

Imagine my friends... waking up in Imran’s shoes and wearing the very elusive crown that infact is bloodied and thorny and smelly.

If the older generation thinks Imran Khan has anything to lose, He Doesn’t!! He has been to the top of the world – travelled with the greats, lived the life of a king – the “Kursi ka Nasha” is beneath him. He is trying for your next generation. My next generation. *He remains this nation's last hope*.

It is sad and unfortunate. I have never seen an adult generation leaving behind so much filth for their kids and still wishing so ill for their current and future generation’s *Last Hope* to FAIL miserably. People pray that their children and grandchildren live in a better country. But at the same time there are People who want Imran to fail to prove a point – “I TOLD YOU SO”, "DON’T DREAM MY KID”. They trust their children's future with Maryam Nawaz and Bilawal Zardari. God Bless such a nation. Imran Khan will walk away injured and bruised like many a times before. He will be dejected that his dream to raise this nation didn't come true. All the compromises, even the ugliest ones he had to make, were futile.

*Will you be able to walk away from your Wish to Burn your next Generation’s Dream of a better Pakistan?* So go on and Continue your mud-slinging and praying each day for him to FAIL.

*If only you were so critical for your past 40 years of choices of leaders* that made this motherland’s milk dry, abused and plundered its resources to fill their coffers, and flooded its streets with your children’s blood, our country's situation would have been much better.

But if IK can bring even 10% improvement to this God Forsaken Country of grave evils and corrupts, and gives it a better direction for the future *I will choose him again on his worst day rather than Zardari, Fazlo, Nawaz and Altaf’s best day. I will not give up my dream till I or Imran Khan breathe our last as I don’t have anyone else to look up to.

 

[I.R.A]

whether the State can enforce a religion by force of law but be able to treat all its diverse citizenry as equals before the law.

Enforcing a religion is unlawful in itself. Like diverse citizenry laws these days are diverse and multidimensional. Criminal, civil, family, community, financial, labor etc etc. It is impracticable for a state to beat everyone to enter mosques, churches or temples. If we talk about Pakistan, well it is a country for powerful only, the rest irrespective of their religion almost get the same treatment.

This question determines the very nature of the country that we, as a nation, believe to be fighting for, in the context of this thread.

The fight has to evolve and enter the next phase ..... if we ever wish to become a nation.

 

[VCheng]

Enforcing a religion is unlawful in itself. Like diverse citizenry laws these days are diverse and multidimensional. Criminal, civil, family, community, financial, labor etc etc. It is impracticable for a state to beat everyone to enter mosques, churches or temples. If we talk about Pakistan, well it is a country for powerful only, the rest irrespective of their religion almost get the same treatment.

Pakistani laws and its Constitution say otherwise, clearly. Many above contend it is Islam above all that they are fighting to impose, others put Pakistan before everything else, and yet others would like to fight for a state that does not interfere, favor, support, promote, or deny (in) the personal religious beliefs of any of its diverse citizenry.

No wonder our nation appears to be directionless, adrift on a sea of confusion of its own making.

 

[I.R.A]

Pakistani laws and its Constitution say otherwise, clearly. Many above contend it is Islam above all that they are fighting to impose, others put Pakistan before everything else, and yet others would like to fight for a state that does not interfere, favor, support, promote, or deny (in) the personal religious beliefs of any of its diverse citizenry.

No wonder our nation appears to be directionless, adrift on a sea of confusion of its own making.

In reality Pakistani laws are mere sermons, they are enforced for the powerful by the powerful. As far as including "Sovereignty belongs to ALLAH" just on a piece of paper means nothing. The real implementation would have led to a just, tolerant, lawful progressing healthy society.

Pakistani Islam is for everyone to claim and use when it suits their interests, otherwise it remains for clergy to decide and impose. The word of neighborhood imam remains a law .... it has to be followed blindly, no matter if its Islamic or not.

So how can we discard implementation of Islamic principles, when in reality they never have been implemented in Pakistan save for the first year of its birth? Is it that people confuse that Islam doesn't provide protection to people of other faiths?

 

[fitpOsitive]

What are we fighting for?

After a couple of months of a very hard area a couple of us got a few days off and decided to head back to civilization which was filled with a jam-packed car, constant tea stops for our weary souls and countless packs of smokes puffed. Good times. I was accompanying a couple of officers and our senior most offered us to enjoy the scenery of a city that shall remain unnamed. After resting there for a while in our jam-packed rooms and smoking a few more packs with tea that was called, kanjar kisam ki chaye; that’s the best tea I’ve ever had and what it exactly is would only be reveled after proper identification of every member who asks me what it is.

The local resident of the city, an accompanying officer took us sight seeing and we went along enjoying everything. Believe me, after months of being off road and hiking flat carpeted roads are a blessing so are street lights; I was amazed as to why I had never noticed how beautiful civilization actually is. You really appreciate it once you’ve lived without it for a while. It changes you forever.

Later during the day we went to a local university where the officer who was our tour guide had a brother completing their higher education. We enjoyed a good tea break and got some company from the senior students and the young faculty in the cafeteria.

Somewhat normal chitchat

It all started with harmless banter and some conversations which are akin to all Pakistanis: complaining about weather, hating politicians, being experts on sports, uncovering hidden truths and ending with a personal story or networking.

However, then the conversation turned bitter; it’s what you have heard all over: Army eats the budget, Pakistan’s problems are because the military doesn’t let democracy flourish, we’re fighting a military war to a political problem, all of us are millionaires just because of the uniform and it got vile.

Having come fresh from the frontlines it wasn’t unnatural that these comments would get some serious heat back. The words and cigarettes flared; after having come from a combat zone I didn’t really want to participate in another one.

Then, the senior most amongst us asked me to give my opinion, having noticed that I was uncharacteristically quiet and the only one amongst the officers who had a university degree (he later clarified that perhaps the students and officers were speaking very different languages according to him).

Speaking holistically

My view actually comes from that perspective which he clarified; I did understand the students and the officers even if I didn’t agree with them. My point was simple: wars are always humanly costly affairs. I wish we lived in a world where it was never needed but that’s being idealistic. I asked the students how would they talk when just the way they dress and live is unacceptable to the people we’re fighting? They haven’t seen warfare and the toll it has on the population caught in the middle and I told them that those civilians choose to come to us and not them; do you really think they’re not making that choice by considerable deliberation? If we were with the people who’re fighting us then we wouldn’t be talking at all: the students would have a knife meet their jugular or a bullet in their head. There’re no arguments there.

Secondly, I asked my colleagues, why are fighting, sir? If we snub the right to verbalize complaints of our citizenry then how are we any different than those we’re fighting? We’re defending an ideal; we’re fighting to protect the rights of these students to study and explore the world. The fact they feel they can speak to us and this openly is precisely a marker of our victory and we need to respect that. That’s what we’re fighting for.

There was silence at the table as I sipped my tea (not as good as the one I got at our quarters but still good enough).

I asked the students to consider this that we’re not very different from them: just a few years ago we were sitting in institutions same as them. We are your army, not anyone else’s. When you speak to us like we’re strangers then it doesn’t resonate well with us. If we talk with a little more understanding you’d find that we aren’t really that different.

Much to say the mood stayed somber but as we left; my senior said that this is the best thing that came out from this, ‘what are we fighting for? All of us need to ask that question as a citizen of this country. I guess we’re fighting to keep that conversation possible, eh boy?’

That’s the question that I’d like to leave you with as well but with the consideration of being realistic when you try to answer that.

As always, happy foruming, folks.

When someone says, OK although it's your right, or may be it is not, but, it is in my power of possession, and if you want that, you got to break atleast two of my teeth.
And after that bloody incident, they start talking.
But blood is necessary to be spilled, some how.

 

[VCheng]

In reality Pakistani laws are mere sermons, they are enforced for the powerful by the powerful. As far as including "Sovereignty belongs to ALLAH" just on a piece of paper means nothing. The real implementation would have led to a just, tolerant, lawful progressing healthy society.

Pakistani Islam is for everyone to claim and use when it suits their interests, otherwise it remains for clergy to decide and impose. The word of neighborhood imam remains a law .... it has to be followed blindly, no matter if its Islamic or not.

So how can we discard implementation of Islamic principles, when in reality they never have been implemented in Pakistan save for the first year of its birth? Is it that people confuse that Islam doesn't provide protection to people of other faiths?

So you appear to be saying about that the powerful in Pakistan are fighting to keep their control absolute, which is only to be expected, using religion as necessary.

The real question is how to get Pakistan on a path more for its people than for its controlling powers. To me, that is where the real issue lies, and one that no one seems to want to fight, this thread included.

 

[truthfollower]

kanjar kisam ki chaye; that’s the best tea I’ve ever had and what it exactly is would only be reveled after proper identification of every member who asks me what it is.

what it is? And what are the ingredients

The fact they feel they can speak to us and this openly is precisely a marker of our victory and we need to respect that. That’s what we’re fighting for.

Yeah it is good but
can you question the religion of majority and stupid decisions based on it? NO!

 

[I.R.A]

So you appear to be saying about that the powerful in Pakistan are fighting to keep their control absolute, which is only to be expected, using religion as necessary.

I am very clear on this. No doubts about it. The tabdeeli brigade also considered it necessary to visit shrines.

The real question is how to get Pakistan on a path more for its people than for its controlling powers. To me, that is where the real issue lies, and one that no one seems to want to fight, this thread included.

Transparency, accountability, checks and balances. Major revamp and reforms, independent competent institutions working within their jurisdiction.

But who is going to bell the cat? It is a blasphemy and treason filled minefield. Talk about your rights and any change, you better start a countdown on whatever limited freedom you enjoy.

 

[jaibi]

A regimental secret, I'm afraid.

what it is? And what are the ingredients

Like I said in the OP that our job is to allow for the conversation to exist; not direct it.

Yeah it is good but
can you question the religion of majority and stupid decisions based on it? NO!

Unfortunately, yes.

When someone says, OK although it's your right, or may be it is not, but, it is in my power of possession, and if you want that, you got to break atleast two of my teeth.
And after that bloody incident, they start talking.
But blood is necessary to be spilled, some how.

 

[fitpOsitive]

A regimental secret, I'm afraid.


Like I said in the OP that our job is to allow for the conversation to exist; not direct it.


Unfortunately, yes.

It's a like a husband and wife fight and divorced.
After 5 years they think, why we fought?

 

[jaibi]

A nice analogy, my friend.

It's a like a husband and wife fight and divorced.
After 5 years they think, why we fought?