What about giving a reset to Pak-US relations instead of severing it?

[CriticalThought]

No offense, but it only sounds like a good fantasy rather than reality. We currently export goods worth $4 billion dollar approximately to US, another $6 Billion dollar exports go to America's allies especially in Europe. Most of our $16 Billion remittances come from US and its allies. Though our largest import partner is China but rest is US' pocket, even China will follow to rest if we get sanctions. And in anyway, they just start curbing our exports and remittance underground by using their diplomacy - we'll end up worse. I think better policy will be: "don't scare the world".


But their agendas on nuclear vertical proliferation even abandoning our nukes are almost same. However, Europe, UK and Canada don't have as much prejudice against China as compared to US and that leave only economic interests where India have possible leverage.

Which European country is demanding we put away our nukes? They understand the role they play in maintaining balance of power. How come PAF has obtained avionics from Italy? POF is entering into partnership with CZ-BREN? We are getting a Dutch OPV. What about Swedish Saabs?

Yes, our nukes mean there are many military technologies we cannot obtain, but they aren't going to sanction us just because of them. We need to build friendships. How come they don't see America/Britain/France as a danger? I know I am pushing the boundaries of realism and truth here - we can't be America/Britain/France for them - but the point is, the world perceives us in the way we interact with them. Our image is in our own hands. And that's work we should be doing today.

@A.P. Richelieu @Vergennes please keep me honest here.

 

[HAIDER]

Independence means we should not care if they curb our goods or not , if these goods are standard and up to the mark they can and never will curb them.
And if they are not good enough then better do brainstorming and improve business tactics.
China create cheaper goods and us cant live without them , even though their relations are not good and trump is anti china but they still have to buy these goods.

But, don't buy chinese toys for the safety of your kids.

 

[Vapnope]

Ideally this should be the case, however Pakistan went overboard to help US achieve its certain goals in the region. Now when the Afghanistan is slipping and war doesn't seem to come to an end, US wants Pakistan to do exactly what they want and how they want. Pakistan on the other hand has its reservations placed right which will not be addressed by US.
Diplomacy should work this out by give and take by both sides.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

there is no reset button in foreign policy

There is a reset button. As of now, as in the past, no one in Pakistan knows it's position in the US foreign policy. Pakistan's leaders have constantly overestimated their position and thus failed to fathom it's position or claim one. Either by misreading agreements or individuals making them.

For all the talk about Pakistan being in a strategic position. The question is: What has Pakistan received for it's strategic position? A dozen F-16s? WB/IMF/ADB loans? $200 per truck to Afghanistan?

The US knew the speech by President Trump would result in Pakistan going to China for "consultations". Response: Habib Bank fine. The only thing unexpected was the rescheduling of Assistant Sect. of State Alice Wells. And now you have a response by BRICS. Not entirely overt but sending a clear message.

Pakistan is so unorganized, it barely has the accounting books for the "$billions in aid". Pakistan has been given a death sentence by court of public opinion.

When Pakistani politicians are playing musical chairs among which political dynasty to join or level accusations of sexual harassment. When will they ever find the time to dictate policy?

 

[countryman]

Which European country is demanding we put away our nukes? They understand the role they play in maintaining balance of power. How come PAF has obtained avionics from Italy? POF is entering into partnership with CZ-BREN? We are getting a Dutch OPV. What about Swedish Saabs?

Hmm, sorry, which country have accepted us as legitimate nuclear state? France have denied us providing their avionics on the other hand. Saab have wouldn't provide us Gripen even if we want to buy and that is official as far as I know.

PS: I think this discussion pulling thread off the track.

 

[Bilawal Bhutto]

Why give rest? Why not kill it?

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

This is beyond reset. To put it bluntly, they hate our nukes. Forget about friendship while you have them.

They are also closer to India, socially and culturally. They will NEVER give preference to us over India. And due to our constant animosity, time and time again situations arise where they must show their blatant favoritism for India. We cannot call them friends.



What they will bring to the table is a well armed Afghsn army that forms the Western arm of a coordinated attack. Now is the time to be working full speed to neutralize Indian influence, weaken American power, and sabotage Afghan government. This is the only way forward.

Everything else may be possible, but converting NA thugs into a well armed and capable army is beyond any mortals!!!! And, that too by the US folks!!!!! They failed with both South Koreans and South Vietnamese before when they needed them most!!!! Changing to North has made it way too worse!!!!

 

[HAIDER]

There is a reset button. As of now, as in the past, no one in Pakistan knows it's position in the US foreign policy. Pakistan's leaders have constantly overestimated their position and thus failed to fathom it's position or claim one. Either by misreading agreements or individuals making them.

For all the talk about Pakistan being in a strategic position. The question is: What has Pakistan received for it's strategic position? A dozen F-16s? WB/IMF/ADB loans? $200 per truck to Afghanistan?

The US knew the speech by President Trump would result in Pakistan going to China for "consultations". Response: Habib Bank fine. The only thing unexpected was the rescheduling of Assistant Sect. of State Alice Wells. And now you have a response by BRICS. Not entirely overt but sending a clear message.

Pakistan is so unorganized, it barely has the accounting books for the "$billions in aid". Pakistan has been given a death sentence by court of public opinion.

When Pakistani politicians are playing musical chairs among which political dynasty to join or level accusations of sexual harassment. When will they ever find the time to dictate policy?

I thought Pakistan got wheat instead of full refund against F16 payment. .....anyway reality is different what you wrote . I know engineer who is working on joint US-world bank mega project in Pakistan., scenario is totally different and majority of people doesn't know the inside stories...
Pakistan has no foreign policy since the beginning of first afghan war. When dictator tried to prolong his rule with the help of adopting a slave policy and jeopardized the national interest ...

 

[countryman]

Why give rest? Why not kill it?

Because we don't want to look stupid, rash and incapable decision makers and we need other countries for our economic growth.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

After Trump administration's hostile policy towards Pakistan - it's essential we respond to this in strong way. However, at the same time, I think it's time we stop towards others. In my view, we need to give US-Pakistan relations another chance and leave the fight for some other day. We need to reset US-Pakistan relations. We can deliver strongest possible message by rejecting US AID, yet continuing our fight again terrorism. This essential step we should take now or we'll risk our economy and trade. The differences which are happening now is just due to escalated level of expectations in US. What you guys thinks?

Wait and see may be the best approach. Anyway, Pak has leverages too and if they play it smartly and prudently positive outcomes may emerge. By the by, the geopitical balances are passing through tectonic shifts - usually they do in 100 years. And, the losing party leaves no stones unturned. And, the winning party finds everyting is going so positively for them. Little they know that these games and results are beyond mortal intligence and capability. Pak needs to make the best out of these dynamics!!!

 

[countryman]

I thought Pakistan got wheat instead of full refund against F16 payment

Soybean meal not wheat

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

I thought Pakistan got wheat instead of full refund against F16 payment. .....anyway reality is different what you wrote . I know engineer who is working on joint US-world bank mega project in Pakistan., scenario is totally different and majority of people doesn't know the inside stories...

For having the greatest "strategic" position of Pakistan gets loans...

 

[maximuswarrior]

After Trump administration's hostile policy towards Pakistan - it's essential we respond to this in strong way. However, at the same time, I think it's time we stop towards others. In my view, we need to give US-Pakistan relations another chance and leave the fight for some other day. We need to reset US-Pakistan relations. We can deliver strongest possible message by rejecting US AID, yet continuing our fight again terrorism. This essential step we should take now or we'll risk our economy and trade. The differences which are happening now is just due to escalated level of expectations in US. What you guys thinks?

Fact is that Pakistan is already fighting the war all by itself. America has virtually stopped much of the aid. That includes both military and economic aid. This is what irks America. They want Pakistan to fight the war under their rules and dictation. They want to provide India an open playing field to attack China. The Americans consciously ignore Pakistan's interests and concerns. Simply because they don't care. Pakistan has luckily failed to comply to these insane demands.

Truth is that Pakistan and US relations are going to remain rocky as long as the American policy makers keep appeasing India and at the cost of Pakistan. Naturally, the relationship will always be held hostage to these ground realities. It takes two to tango and I don't see America or Pakistan compromising one inch.

 

[CriticalThought]

Everything else may be possible, but converting NA thugs into a well armed and capable army is beyond any mortals!!!! And, that too by the US folks!!!!! They failed with both South Koreans and South Vietnamese before when they needed them most!!!! Changing to North has made it way too worse!!!!

They have the hate and motivation. The US has the firepower. It can be a toxic combination. If it comes to it, the US can provide its own fire power for the morons to push forward. With Salala being a reality in the not so distant past, we need to be prepared for the worst. And not underestimate the enemy.

 

[StandForInsaf]

US is not and will not be our ally ever , our rulers made mistake by giving US free hand.

We have nothing in common we have no people to people contact , average american thinks shit nonsense about Pakistanis let dump this shit relation or reduce it to average relation.