West vs East Pakistan - Separation debate on economical stand

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Vallahi Billahi!!! Even it has become too much for me!!!! Can't everybody just agree on that BD/Mujib/Hasina etc. are the best things ever happened to the mankind since the invention of cheesecake, and move on?!?!

 

[Nilgiri]

Vallahi Billahi!!! Even it has become too much for me!!!! Can't everybody just agree on that BD/Mujib/Hasina etc. are the best things ever happened to the mankind since the invention of cheesecake, and move on?!?!

Now thats just offensive to cheesecake, the most noble of all food!

 

[Slav Defence]

Suddenly Pakistanis caring about Bangladesh now...

@BHarwana would you bother to explain why there were such huge income disparities between two wings?

@Imran Khan told you bro, you are not totally over it either.
Even Nawaz Sharif had to talk about Bangladesh and the injustices there between 47-71 after being ousted by your supreme court.

Here's what your current Prime Minister said about East Pakistan:

Your current prime minister says this, your previous prime minister also talked about it and here some of you chest thumping guys are trying to feel good desperately.

No one said there was no development in East Pakistan. Heck lots of development happened in the British period also. Now be grateful to the Brits? Look at the development of the eastern wing and compare it with the development of the West Side. How much money from the govt was spent on West side compared to the east side? Anyone justify it please. And why Mujib was not allowed to be the pm after winning the election in the condition set by the military?

Label us as traitors and feel good about it. That's all you can do now. @Slav Defence @Joe Shearer @waz

Don't follow the term "traitor".False words!
Pakistani political failure and Indian involvement had caused 1971 turmoil.I understand this.

Regards

 

[MBT 3000]

bnegalis will still believe their BS and will be silent on biharis

 

[UKBengali]

lol.

A whole thread got raised by Pakistanis trying to whitewash their semi-colonialism of BD between 1947-1971.

This is worse than the British as they at least had no pretence of treating BD as an equal.

Must really butt-hurt that they can never criticise colonial powers as their country engaged in the practice when they had the chance.

Now as BD economy accelerates and overtakes them, the butt-hurt will need more and more Burnol to soothe.

 

[rak_987]

lol.

A whole thread got raised by Pakistanis trying to whitewash their semi-colonialism of BD between 1947-1971.

This is worse than the British as they at least had no pretence of treating BD as an equal.

Must really butt-hurt that they can never criticise colonial powers as their country engaged in the practice when they had the chance.

Now as BD economy accelerates and overtakes them, the butt-hurt will need more and more Burnol to soothe.

Really wish to have treated you as per your auqaat like what Hindu mahajans and British Raj did with you. This is why they are more respected.

There is a saying kissi ko usski auqaat se zyada nahi dena chahiye. A gutless stunted group of people who sold jute and ate fish were given educational institutions and made military and air force cadets. Nahi hona chahiye tha should've treated you like Hindus and English, would've been better.

 

[Shahzaz ud din]

Actually less than 30% was spent on the eastern side. Despite it having more populatioin.[/QUOTE]
It will be very hard to understand for a person having the brain size as follow.WP having area of 881,912 Km2 (88.27 %) needed more spending as compared to EP having area of . 147,610 km2 (16.73 %).
Almost every year there used to be a cyclone in east Pakistan.Major chunk of the funds had to spend on the rehabilitation of the affectees of the cyclones..


List of EAST Pakistan tropical cyclones (1947-1971)
7–19 May 1948 Cyclonic Storm Coast:
Deltan between Chittagong and Noakhali
Casualty: approximately 1,200 people and 20,000 cattle.

16–19 May 1958 Cyclonic Storm Coast:
East and West Meghna River estuary, east of Barisal and Noakhali
Casualty: 870 people and 14,500. Also standing crops were destroyed.
21–24 October 1958 Cyclonic Storm Coast:
Chittagong
Casualty:Approx. 100,000 families were rendered homeless.
9–10 October 1960 Severe Cyclonic Storm Coast:
Eastern Meghna River estuary near Noakhali, Bakerganj, Faridpur and Patuakhali.
Maximum Wind:201 km/hour Maximum Surge: 3.05 metres
Casualty: 3,000 people. Other effects: 62,725 houses destroyed. Crops on 94,000 acres (380 km2) of land were destroyed
30–31 October 1960 Severe Cyclonic Storm Coast:
Chittagong, Noakhali, Bakerganj, Faridpur, Patuakhali and eastern Meghna estuary
Maximum Wind:210 km/h
Surge: 4.5–6.1 m
Casualty: about 10,000 people, 27,793 cattle . Losses: 568,161 houses destroyed (including 70% houses in Hatiya). Also, two large ocean-going ships ran aground in the shore, and 5–7 vessels capsized in Karnaphuli River.

9 May 1961 Severe Cyclonic Storm Coast:
Bagerhat and Khulna
Maximum Wind:161 km/h
Surge height:2.44-3.05 m
Casualty: 11,468 people (mostly in Char Alexander), 25,000 cattle. Damages: The railway tracks between Noakhali and Harinarayanpur were damaged.

26–30 October 1962 Severe Cyclonic Storm Coast:
Feni Maximum Wind:161 km/h
Surge height:2.5-3.0 m
Casualty: about 1,000 people, many domestic cattle.

28–29 May 1963 Severe Cyclonic Storm Coast:
Chittagong, Noakhali, Cox's Bazar and coastal islands of Sandwip, Kutubdia, Hatiya and Maheshkhali.
Maximum Wind:203 km/h (164 km/h at Cox's Bazar)
Surge height:4.3-5.2 m
Casualty: 11,520 people, 32,617 cattle. Damages: 376,332 houses, 4,787 boats, and standing crops.

11–12 May 1965 Cyclonic Storm Coast:
Barisal and Bakerganj
Maximum Wind:162 km/h
Surge height:3.7 m
Casualty:19,279 people (out of that, 16,456 in Barisal).

14–15 December 1965 Cyclonic Storm Coast:
near Cox's Bazar and Patuakhali
Maximum Windspeed:210 km/h at Cox's Bazar
Surge height:4.7-6.1 m
Casualty 873 people. Damage: 40,000 salt beds destroyed

1 October 1966 Cyclonic Storm Coast:
Sandwip, Bakerganj, Khulna, Chittagong, Noakhali and Comilla
Surge height:4.7-9.1 m
Maximum Wind:146 km/h
Total people affected: 1.5 million people. Casualty: 850 people, 65,000 cattle.

7 November-13 November:
The 1970 Bhola cyclone Severe Cyclonic Storm Coast:entire coast of Bangladesh (then East Pakistan)
Most affected were Chittagong, Barguna, Khepupara, Patuakhali, north of Char Burhanuddin, Char Tazumuddin and south of Maijdi, Haringhata.

The official death toll was 500,000 but the number is likely to be higher. Damages include destruction of approximately 20,000 fishing boats, and also property and crops. Total loss of cattle reached more than one million. More than 400,000 houses and 3,500 educational institutions were destroyed. Maximum Wind:222 km/h
Maximum Surge:10.6 m.

5–6 November 1971 Cyclonic Storm Coast:
Coastal areas of Chittagong
Casualty:unknown

28–30 November 1971 Cyclonic Storm Coast:
near the Sundarbans
Wind Speed:97–113 km/h

Surge height:1 m

Effect:Low-lying areas of Khulna town inundated

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer are you taking this seriously?
Whatever we did for them has no value,whatever Hasina clan says has more value.

My argument is that what happened was due to political and sociological reasons, not economic or military. At the same time, it has to be admitted that I get emotional on matters relating to Bangladesh. With roots in Dhaka on my father's side and Barisal on my mother's, what else would I do? We are not calm and rational people; if I could, I would present you with a gift:

​

Blood will out. Not much I can do about it, however much @Nilgiri wipes the floor with us periodically.

Sorry we are not taught history by Modi.

Don't bring Modi into this. That scoundrel hates Pakistan and Bangladesh - and dissenting parts of India - in equal hatred.

you wasting your time ,,,,,, these members and other like him only here for propaganda , that's it !!! I Asked him proves of 3 million killings haven't got any , but I did got JUT , More money , more export etc!!!
Ironically almost all JUT industries feel into india after partition,,,,,, but...………… Propaganda still goes on..... Just like how they call Pakistani Govt of that time "Regime"(we were not occupying them or it wasn't a forcefully appointed Govt) even though they(bangali) participated in elections and 4 bangali became head of state ……
But they start using word regime because it suits them..specially in current geo-environment

You are wrong about jute. Please read up on it.

You are having 30% of budget with country smaller than my district? Seriously you are complaining?

You have an obsession with wide open spaces and the extent of land. As @Mage has suggested repeatedly, compare your expenditure on Punjab with your expenditure on Balochistan.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sir G ,Industries remained in East also went to India , because of their owners and workers , I am not saying you guys took great advantage from it. JUT industries were on decline in 50s and in 60s they almost ended.
If you don't mind me saying this ,,,,,,, WHITE Raj destroyed it systematically …….. But From Bangalis we (West Pakistanis) Take all the blame.

You are right in your opening statement, but the British had nothing to do with the decline and fall of either Bengal. Again, you are right about the gradual decline and fall of jute as an industry, but the first push between the shoulder blades was given by partition, by taking away all the jute-growing areas (it requires wetland to grow, much more wetland than we had in West Bengal).

I have mentioned this before, in other threads. The central government in India came up with a marvellous piece of administration called the Freight Equalisation Policy. It essentially ensured that the geographical advantages of raw material being in the east - in what is today Jharkhand and Odisha and West Bengal - were suddenly removed, and we had to pay more for these - coal, and iron ore, and copper - than the far better settled areas of the west, of Bombay and of Gujarat (although Gujarat came into its own and started poisoning the earth only after the boom due to petrochemicals from Bombay High).

That, on top of Meher Chand Khanna, appointed minister for refugee rehabilitation and himself a refugee from West Pakistan, spending 90% - 90%! - of allocated funds on refugee rehabilitation in the west. I grew up watching fellow refugees subsisting on roofless patches next to the railway lines.

We don't blame Indians for this any more, we from West Bengal. We just walked away and got jobs and income and occupation elsewhere. Wherever you go in India, you will find Bengalis working at everything; from Bangladeshis slaving away at the things that desperately need to be done, but no native Indian wants to do, all the rough jobs in construction or in field labour, to West Bengalis working in every single area of industry, managing the pharmaceutical industry that gives us so much of our export earnings, the software services industry that gives us so much else, the banking and financial services industries, advertising and its creative side, even down to providing creative talent to Bollywood.

There's no point blaming anybody; @Dubious has cried himself hoarse about it. What happened, happened; there isn't much point protesting about it. Bangladesh clawed its way back (maybe not as much as the government statistics seem to show, @Nilgiri has had a lot to say about it elsewhere, but nevertheless, to the extent where the effects of development are palpable and clear); West Bengal still has to do it, because of the AAP syndrome. In @jbgt90's biting words, agitators can't seem to figure out that they need to change when their agitations are successful and they start wielding political authority. What Didi is trying to do is exactly the same that the BJP is trying to do, but neither has a clue about what to do, and how to do it. The problem is that between Bangladesh and Pakistan, and between their analogues, West Bengal and the Rest of India, only one out of the four is doing well; two are still floundering. That is, unless, as a bhakt, one feels obliged to lean on doctored indices and lower the growth rates of the past to make the growth rate of today look good.

I know where the negativity comes from. It comes from a sense of indignation that people so glibly take for granted what is happening today, and deny all that was happening yesterday. It stems from the human desire for revenge, for seeking an apology, for seeking a public confession of wrong-doing.

It isn't going to happen.

We need to forget about those things, and move on. It's time (for India) to feed, house and clothe its young, to educate it and deploy it to lead meaningful lives, and to challenge the world and restore the outstanding position of Indian industry and commerce before the British came into India. And it's time for West Bengal to stop painting everything blue and concentrate on governance that produces results, not word bites and photo opportunities.

For Bangladesh, why flog a dead horse? Concentrate on earning, concentrate on staying out of debt, concentrate on educating your youth....there's enough to be done.

 

[Nilgiri]

My argument is that what happened was due to political and sociological reasons, not economic or military. At the same time, it has to be admitted that I get emotional on matters relating to Bangladesh. With roots in Dhaka on my father's side and Barisal on my mother's, what else would I do? We are not calm and rational people; if I could, I would present you with a gif

Would not expect anything more or less of anyone. I don't know quite what I'd be responding if TN or Kerala in some new political hypothetical was set upon so deeply by a forum "at home" mob (who I also empathise a great deal with as well)....I'd probably be doing something like what you are doing.

I mean some BD ppl in their anger (against my prickly attitude etc) have tried that kind of stuff (and a motley crew of others)...but its the boring usual stuff and easily swatted away and ignored. Deep set stuff, I have yet to really experience, though maybe my hide is pretty thick too.

(maybe not as much as the government statistics seem to show, @Nilgiri has had a lot to say about it elsewhere

Mostly I don't want BD ppl to be infected by too much ego like too many Indians have been...because I have personally seen what such wretches can bray and the real damage and ignorance it can do. There is not much leeway on this forum to do the same with Pakistanis (given the climate that exists between us two) and chinese benefactors...so I have been somewhat naturally been channeled and diverted mostly to here (given there is a nice number of them too...so its not like playing to an empty concert hall).

So if they (BD members) can discuss with their broader network at some point and return some genuine good sustained counters eventually...I will consider the job is done (whether I accept it to their face or not).

But they have that affection for numbers only like you Bengalis as a whole seem too fond of....so they are battling uphill most of the time. They dont know quite how to flank and approach me downhill (with the gravity of logic and reason to aid)....lets see if they do figure it out at some point over here (there are still a few promising prospects that just need time I feel)...but many have given up and put down their arms in anger and worse hate!

They all generally do have that budding somewhat raw ego as well and I enjoy facing that rawness...its not yet tempered to a dull anguished and plateaued sort like I see in my countrymen yet ...but seems to be getting there none the same...and of course it is ego all the same to begin with! Oh well....it filters the men from the boys here somewhat at the very least!

 

[Joe Shearer]

Would not expect anything more or less of anyone. I don't know quite what I'd be responding if TN or Kerala in some new political hypothetical was set upon so deeply by a forum "at home" mob (who I also empathise a great deal with as well)....I'd probably be doing something like what you are doing.

I mean some BD ppl in their anger (against my prickly attitude etc) have tried that kind of stuff (and a motley crew of others)...but its the boring usual stuff and easily swatted away and ignored. Deep set stuff, I have yet to really experience, though maybe my hide is pretty thick too.



Mostly I don't want BD ppl to be infected by too much ego like too many Indians have been...because I have personally seen what such wretches can bray and the real damage and ignorance it can do. There is not much leeway on this forum to do the same with Pakistanis (given the climate that exists between us two) and chinese benefactors...so I have been somewhat naturally been channeled and diverted mostly to here (given there is a nice number of them too...so its not like playing to an empty concert hall).

So if they (BD members) can discuss with their broader network at some point and return some genuine good sustained counters eventually...I will consider the job is done (whether I accept it to their face or not).

But they have that affection for numbers only like you Bengalis as a whole seem too fond of....so they are battling uphill most of the time. They dont know quite how to flank and approach me downhill (with the gravity of logic and reason to aid)....lets see if they do figure it out at some point over here (there are still a few promising prospects that just need time I feel)...but many have given up and put down their arms in anger and worse hate!

They all generally do have that budding somewhat raw ego as well and I enjoy facing that rawness...its not yet tempered to a dull anguished and plateaued sort like I see in my countrymen yet ...but seems to be getting there none the same...and of course it is ego all the same to begin with! Oh well....it filters the men from the boys here somewhat at the very least!

Worth deep study.

 

[Sine Nomine]

My argument is that what happened was due to political and sociological reasons, not economic or military. At the same time, it has to be admitted that I get emotional on matters relating to Bangladesh. With roots in Dhaka on my father's side and Barisal on my mother's, what else would I do? We are not calm and rational people; if I could, I would present you with a gift:

It was pure political but of course,that can't be used as a reason for all events so BD Govt has to create something else,this Exploitation mantra backed by 3 million kills and 0.2 million rapes is perfect narrative to justify everything.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

@Mage @UKBengali Pakistanis have moved on past 1971 a long time ago. Your erroneous view that we hate you is absolutely false.

In fact, we recognize the wrong which was done by us, so can you recognize that which was done right by us.

You are our Muslim brothers and sisters, how can we hate you?

We may not like your politics, and dislike your eschewed view of history against us, but we are more than capable of looking past that to respect you guys for what you have done right for your country.

If BD develops, all of PK is cheering you on. After all, we are both inevitable friends and allies, though you may not see it yet. History is bringing us together.

 

[Homo Sapiens]

You are having 30% of budget with country smaller than my district? Seriously you are complaining?

Which district do you live in? I never knew Pakistan has such a district.

Please provide the data!


How about this one:

This chart say, 'amount spent on east as percentage of west' . It does not mean 40.5 percent of whole Pakistan. But the west Pakistan only. That mean's if 100 rupee spent in west Pakistan, just 40.5 rupee were spend in east Pakistan. So west Pakistan got 2.5 times more funding despite less population that East.

 

[Homo Sapiens]

The respective share out of divisible pool between centre and provinces were 35:65 percent. The share of East Pakistan and West Pakistan remained unchanged at 54 percent and 46 percent. However, on 1st July 1970 the West Pakistan was disband into Punjab, Sindh, NWFP and Balochistan, thus its share of 46 percent was distributed as 56.5, 23.5, 15.5 and 4.5 percent respectively among the new provinces [Pakistan (1991)].

2.3.3. National Finance Committee 1970 A committee2 was set up to recommend for the inter-governmental resource sharing under the Federal Finance Minister on April 1970. The divisible pool remained unchanged, however the share of the federal and provincial governments in the divisible pool was considered to be 20:80 percent respectively. Out of the provincial share 54 percent was given to East Pakistan, while the remaining 46 percent was distributed among the rest of the provinces

The deception lies within the word of 'Divisible pool'. Because most of the resources were not divisible. Like spending on military, federal govt, federal projects, repaying foreign debt etc. There were very small money left after spending on those things to distribute proportionately among the province. Whatever was the 'divisible pool', 65% of them divided equitably among the provinces. Undivisible pool and the share of Central govt. within divisible pool(35%) benefited overwhelmingly the west Pakistanis. This is just one aspect. What about the financing of West Pakistani trade deficit with the trade surplus of East Pakistan? It was a major contributor to economic exploitation. Or what about distributing the foreign aid? West Pakistan took 96 percent share of foreign aid.

For the foreign debt part. Federal govt. undertook a lot of big development projects for west Pakistan with foreign debt. There was no equivalent big project in east Pakistan with debt money like Tarbela dam or expansion of irrigated agriculture in Punjab and Sindh desert. Federal govt. did not spend any money for flood control in east Pakistan. That's why flood in those times were much more severe and destructive to man and materials in east Pakistan. But when there was a time to repay those debt, East Pakistan was repaying more than it's share of foreign debt money utilization in East Pakistan. By it's foreign exchange earning through export and revenue.
@Dubious @Joe Shearer @monitor @CHACHA"G" @Tps43 @Desert Fox @MBT 3000 @Major Sam @PakSword @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan