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We’re Indians first, Taliban view of Islam not ours, say Deoband Islamic Scholars (Ulema)

Let me get my head around this statement. "We are Indians first", is there a different Islam in Inida!! Which allows them to visit Hindu Temples and show worship there!! Or that Hindu majority is allowed to attack Muslims because they eat meat or trade in meat!! The biggest sold out cowards in the world are these Indian Muslim leaders.

It's easy to fool so many by a headline and go on abusive rant. Where in the article does anyone say they are Indian first and Muslim second? Where does it say Indian first. The headline reflects the fear and ideology of the writer. Obviously there is no competition between anyone's religion and their nationality, neither are you guardian of anyone's faith ... the point is someone's religion is none of anyone's political business.
 
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Proving to be Indian is not exclusive to the Indian Muslims. It applies to any minority in the world, though the degree often varies. I note that you are in the US. Do you not see Muslims (especially the immigrants) in the US going the extra mile to prove their Americanness? Why is the US flag brandished at every immigrant protest? Why do ethnic/religious discussions in the US preface themselves with "we are Americans first...."

The Chinese/Asian minority all around the world are the best examples of this. From adopting local names to coining the "model minority" phrase was nothing but a form of self-preservation.

In India, there was an unspoken (or subconscious) understanding that if we remained loyal Indian citizens, and accommodated the minor quibbles of the majority, they would leave us alone. The events of the past couple of decades have obviously proved us wrong. The majority does not have a problem with anything we did or do, but rather with our simple existence. The newer generation is less accommodating of such a thought process and does not feel a sense of belonging in India any more.

Incidentally, I recently attended a fund raiser for a Muslim school in India, and the organizer made it clear - we want to make leaders of our children so that they can go on and fight for the community in India. Twenty years ago he would have prefaced it by saying "we want our children to be good citizens of India"
Just based on the above(and even if brash and visual in nature) doesn’t this validate what I said regarding needing to be louder than the rest in vande mataram or be beaten with shoes?
not in his case, I can assure you..


BS, only true for extremists, not for all BJP voters.





^they shouldn't

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^ The Indian Deobandis might well have a problem with stuff like this but pretty sure this wasn't forced on them, these are mixed kids growing up in well to do educated cultured families.

Hindus flock to Sufi shrines in their millions too, tie dhagas, partake in chaddar rituals and what not so...

those who don't feel a 'sense of belonging' are being fed media lies, nobody is out to get the muslims even if there is a lot more social media and political talk around religion lately.
Since you aren’t an Indian muslim and do not face the same issues nor the social compulsions, wont you agree that you are inherently biased based on your circumstances? Put yourself in their shoes - not think as a BJP Hindu supporter but as an Indian muslim.
 
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Since you aren’t an Indian muslim and do not face the same issues nor the social compulsions, wont you agree that you are inherently biased based on your circumstances? Put yourself in their shoes - not think as a BJP Hindu supporter but as an Indian muslim.
Possibly, but he (xeuss) still makes it sound much much worse than it is. He's a creamy layer mofo, educated, well to do, settled or works in the west. He has about as much personal experience with prejudice and bias as me.

There are problems of course, just not as bad as made out to be, spl not for the creamies.
 
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Possibly, but he (xeuss) still makes it sound much much worse than it is. He's a creamy layer mofo, educated, well to do, settled or works in the west. He has about as much personal experience with prejudice and bias as me.

There are problems of course, just not as bad as made out to be, spl not for the creamies.
You are again focused on attacking him - I am asking your opinion in case you were in an Indian muslim’s shoes purely as you still are as a person. What if you had the circumstances of being born to a lower middle class muslim family in Kakori? What responses would you give and why? Especially when faced with the problems you are saying that do exist
 
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I attend a deobandi led mosque. Will be honest they are much more proactive in working with the community then other sects.
Never witnessed any extremism from them.
Yes, i saw their activity when i was child and visit masjid in 10 number with all my friend, they came up with loaded weapon, drag all of us from masjid and didn't allowed to perform jamath. They caputed that masjid and still in their control.
 
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Yes, i saw their activity when i was child and visit masjid in 10 number with all my friend, they came up with loaded weapon, drag all of us from masjid and didn't allowed to perform jamath. They caputed that masjid and still in their control.
Different nation different experiance. I've only had a positive experience with them.
 
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You are again focused on attacking him - I am asking your opinion in case you were in an Indian muslim’s shoes purely as you still are as a person. What if you had the circumstances of being born to a lower middle class muslim family in Kakori? What responses would you give and why? Especially when faced with the problems you are saying that do exist
Not attacking, just calling out the hypocrisy and bs such as this:

" The majority does not have a problem with anything we did or do, but rather with our simple existence. "

Untrue, false, invalid, a straight out lie. One might even say he's projecting his own thoughts about 'the majority' unto them.

Where on earth do such problems (conflicts among diverse groups) not exist ? They do in your adopted home for sure. Let me think what advice I should give to a fatherless black kid growing up in some gang infested inner city, and, while I'm at it, I'll think of some good advice to give a poor as dirt white kid growing up in Appalachia country where coal miner dad has been out of work for years and there is no future. An IT degree and head to silicon valley, only to be denied a job because of his race and where he'll be greeted with all sorts of anti white supremacist rallies ?

The obvious point being that there are problems everywhere, India is not a warzone or a fascist state. It's unfortunate xeuss feels the way he does. It's one of the dangers of being involved to an unhealthy degree with all the political shit talk and news. People will be happier just leading their lives for real. They say a lot of things about the US and its treatment of Muslims/Islam too, I'll bet it is not too bad on the ground for you, is it ? ; )
 
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The Taliban follows the Deobandi school of Islam, but the storied Islamic seminary town’s scholars and people say it is an extreme version, has nothing to do with them.

SONIYA AGRAWAL
22 August, 2021

The Deoband town in Uttar Pradesh's Saharanpur district | Photo: Suraj Singh Bisht/ThePrint
The Deoband town in Uttar Pradesh's Saharanpur district | Photo: Suraj Singh Bisht/ThePrint

Deoband: Deep inside Uttar Pradesh’s Saharanpur district is the town of Deoband. Its streets are filled with young men in white kurta-pajamas and white skull caps, clutching books and bags on their backs.

This, locals say, is the result of about 300 seminaries or madrasas in the town alone that houses thousands of students, many from Indonesia, Malaysia and Bangladesh looking to attain religious education.

The town is also home to the Darul Uloom Deoband, an Islamic seminary established in 1886, which has emerged as a revered global centre for Sunni education.

The seminary and its Deobandi version of Islam have once again hit the headlines following the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan. The Taliban follows the Deobandi school of Islam but locals say that it is an extremist version that has little to do with them.

Arshad Madani, president of the Jamiat Ulama-e-Hind and principal of the Darul Uloom Deoband, told ThePrint that the connection is only historical.


According to him, the Deobandis of India did teach their counterparts of Pakistan and Afghanistan but this was only during the 19th century when there was an effort to get the British out of the subcontinent.

“Our ancestor Maulana Mahmud Hassan Deobandi, who was also called Shaykh-al- Hind, was a freedom fighter in the Indian freedom movement,” Madani said. “In order to fight the British, he had created a jamait of freedom fighters. During this freedom movement, he sent his close ally Maulana Ubaidullah Sindhi to Afghanistan to create an allied force to aid the freedom movement in India.”

“In order to create this group of allies, Maulana Ubaidullah Sindhi was able to form relations with the people of Afghanistan and was able to create the first provisional government of India in Afghanistan where Mahendra Pratap Singh was declared the president and who declared a jihad against the colonial rule,” he said.

Madani said that in recent times, the town has no connection to Afghanistan.

“The person who started the freedom movement over a 100 years back in Afghanistan was a Deobandi and the Taliban claiming to be followers of Deoband are probably his followers three generations down the line,” he said.

As for students coming in from Pakistan and Afghanistan, he said, “Students from all over South Asia come here; for 800 seats, we get about 10,000 applications every year. Students are selected based on different parameters that we have.

“Students from Afghanistan or Pakistan only come here if the Indian government gives them a visa. So all students coming in, come through a formal administrative process. The government obviously has all the information about our international students.”


Arshad Madani, president of the Jamiat Ulama-e-Hind and principal of the Darul Uloom Deoband | Photo: Suraj Singh Bisht/ThePrint
Arshad Madani, president of the Jamiat Ulama-e-Hind and principal of the Darul Uloom Deoband | Photo: Suraj Singh Bisht/ThePrint
‘Stop associating us with terror groups’
This isn’t the first time that Deoband town has attracted media attention.

In the aftermath of the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center in the US in 2001, The New York Times carried a piece on Deoband titled, ‘Indian town’s seed grew into the Taliban’s code’.

Now, the Indian media has begun to focus on the town and its school of Islam.

A spokesperson of the Darul Uloom, who did not want to be named, however, said they have stopped talking to the media due to “twisted narratives”.

“We are a religious school but we are also Indians. To doubt our integrity every time the Taliban spread terror is shameful,” he said.

His view was echoed by a 60-year-old farmer, who has been living in Deoband for over three generations.

“Linking terrorists with a school of religious teachings is unfair. Blaming Islam for their actions is worse,” the farmer said. “No religion in the world teaches anyone to kill or maim; neither does Islam. The Taliban have done terrible things to women and men that go against the teachings of Islam.”

Locals argue that if they indeed are proponents of radical Islam, then terror activities would have hit other countries that the students come from.

Also read: 24-year-old Afghan, a Delhi graduate, is behind the Kabul women protests against Taliban

Deoband and orthodoxy
One of the chief criticisms of the Deoband Islam is that it “promotes extreme orthodoxy”, especially when it comes to women, constricting them to their homes and denying them access to education, jobs and an equal say.

At Deoband, however, the view, among locals and the maulanas, is that they are being misrepresented.

Mohammad Arshad Faruqi, chairman of the Darul Uloom’s online fatwa services, told ThePrint that according to the teachings of Islam, women have the right to education and equal job opportunities but on the condition that they maintain purdah (condition of being fully covered).

Ziya Fatima, a 53-year-old homemaker in Deoband, said that Sharia law imposed on women in Afghanistan is extreme and does not abide by the the teachings of Islam.

“My daughters were educated; they live in the Middle East,” she said. “We go out in the market and attend to our daily chores and run our households, our religion does not restrict us from doing these things.”

“What they did to the women in Afghanistan is wrong; women should be a part of the system and given equal opportunities,” she added.


Women are allowed to study and work, say Deoband's Islamic scholars and locals | Photo: Suraj Singh Bisht/ThePrint
Women are allowed to study and work, say Deoband’s Islamic scholars and locals | Photo: Suraj Singh Bisht/ThePrint
The orthodoxy, however, does extend to what women wear.

Ziya Us Salam, author of the book Women In Masjid: A quest for Justice, said this is due to a “patriarchal interpretation of the Quran”.

“Women have been instructed to wear loose garments in our religious text, which is often translated into the burqa, but the same instruction has been given to men too,” he said. “Men are supposed to cover the part between their navel up to their knees with a loose garment. But we don’t see women telling men how to dress because in India, all positions of religious power across religions have been held by men.”

An ATS centre
Amid the Taliban takeover, the Uttar Pradesh government has decided to set up a training centre for Anti-Terrorist Squad (ATS) commandos in Deoband.

“Amid the Taliban’s savagery, here is a piece of news from UP. Yogi Ji has decided to open a commando training centre in Deoband,” CM Yogi Adityanath’s media advisor Shalabh Mani Tripathi tweeted in Hindi.

Despite the communal overtones, residents and maulanas in the area welcomed the decision. “There is nothing wrong with what we teach and we welcome the ATS staff to be a part of our classes whenever they like,” Madani said.

Residents added that it will only make them feel safer.

“It is better if they come here and find the truth. Maybe these connections they keep making between Deoband and Taliban will stop,” Tehseen Khan, a lawyer living in town, said. “In the current polarised times, we will feel safer knowing that there is a security force present in the area.”

(Edited by Arun Prashanth)


Despite sympathies, Even Darul Uloom Deoband is not recognizing Taliban
@Zarvan


enjoy ENDia.
 
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Not attacking, just calling out the hypocrisy and bs such as this:

" The majority does not have a problem with anything we did or do, but rather with our simple existence. "

Untrue, false, invalid, a straight out lie. One might even say he's projecting his own thoughts about 'the majority' unto them.

Where on earth do such problems (conflicts among diverse groups) not exist ? They do in your adopted home for sure. Let me think what advice I should give to a fatherless black kid growing up in some gang infested inner city, and, while I'm at it, I'll think of some good advice to give a poor as dirt white kid growing up in Appalachia country where coal miner dad has been out of work for years and there is no future. An IT degree and head to silicon valley, only to be denied a job because of his race and where he'll be greeted with all sorts of anti white supremacist rallies ?

The obvious point being that there are problems everywhere, India is not a warzone or a fascist state. It's unfortunate xeuss feels the way he does. It's one of the dangers of being involved to an unhealthy degree with all the political shit talk and news. People will be happier just leading their lives for real. They say a lot of things about the US and its treatment of Muslims/Islam too, I'll bet it is not too bad on the ground for you, is it ? ; )
Where examples of me or NRIs fail is that we aren’t “native” to the land. On the other hand, whether @xeuss is exaggerating the issue or not he does represent the class that is recognizing the issue and it’s explicit direction from the ruling party. Keep in mind, the AIC wasn’t formed during the Raj by the poor but by the educated people who were brought into represent the general masses. The muslim man being accused or being lynched or asked to go to Pakistan isn’t coming from Pakistan. I may have nothing in common with the majority in the US be it genetics or culture but the Indian muslim shares genes, language and culture with you. So your example of expats facing discrimination is invalid in my opinion. I can be told that “you are not American” because I wasn’t born here or my father wasn’t born here but the Indian muslim is Indian by every other metric except religion. That is being used as an excuse by the party you support and hence by you to hate him/her in every aspect of their lives and identity.
 
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Where examples of me or NRIs fail is that we aren’t “native” to the land. On the other hand, whether @xeuss is exaggerating the issue or not he does represent the class that is recognizing the issue and it’s explicit direction from the ruling party. Keep in mind, the AIC wasn’t formed during the Raj by the poor but by the educated people who were brought into represent the general masses. The muslim man being accused or being lynched or asked to go to Pakistan isn’t coming from Pakistan. I may have nothing in common with the majority in the US be it genetics or culture but the Indian muslim shares genes, language and culture with you. So your example of expats facing discrimination is invalid in my opinion. I can be told that “you are not American” because I wasn’t born here or my father wasn’t born here but the Indian muslim is Indian by every other metric except religion. That is being used as an excuse by the party you support and hence by you to hate him/her in every aspect of their lives and identity.

If I can add further. You don't have to experience racism or discrimination to empathize with the people that face it.

Also, just because you don't share the same experience as others, doesn't negate or invalidate their experience. That's kinda like saying I have never seen Mongolia so I guess it doesn't exist.

In my last trip to India, I took the time to talk to well to do Muslims and pointedly asked them what discrimination had they faced. When time permits, I will put it together in a thread.
 
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