We Can Use Strike Drones in J&K If People Will Accept Collateral Damage: Army Chief

[MimophantSlayer]

What a little of rat-Indian shite!

Pisshead, UNDERSTAND, what I wrote first and foremost.

Our narrative that some Mujahedeen were fighting in Kargil, that we sold to the world, was wrong. That limited the PAF scope of involvement in that conflict. PAF cannot operate over hostile airspace to give cover to non state actors and go on smashy smashy taking out Indian Airforce. HOWEVER, when IAF jets intruded a bit, they were taken out ruthlessly.

I know what you're saying, I'm just saying that's a bs excuse to save face, and resorting to ad homiem further proves that, as people usually get desperate trying to defend an indefensible pov.

Your sold nothing as no one bought your s#it narrative, it fooled no one as the pak DG ISI rightly said.
Enough with the virtue signaling, no one thinks you lot are that righteous.
Where was all this "good faith" from your 'oh-we-don't-wanna-seem-to-be-supporting-mujahideen' airforce in 1965 when there were both "Mujahideen" and the PAF fighters participating in the same f###ing war?

PAF was reluctant to face IAF coz IAF had inducted since the 80s, Mirage2000s and Mig29s in large numbers that flew higher, faster and had BVRAAMs. PAF knew that if they participated in the war and saved their countrymen from the repeated pounding they were getting, they risked being drawn into an aerial war of attrition with an airforce not only larger but also more importantly possessing fighters that have achieved tech parity and superior in some most cases to PAF fighters, unlike in the previous wars.

 

[Beskar]

I wish we could be as "brave" as you lot and accept the mistakes of large SF casualties and them being literally used as infantry and just straight up airstrike civilian settlements, and run tanks all over the place, i.e. a full scale military intervention and not ask people what they want.

Pakistan saw one of the largest displacement of people during the beginning of our full-scale WAR ON TERROR.

Millions of people were relocated and provided shelter & safety far away from their infiltrated lands. The best thing about this mass migration was the PEOPLE's willingness to RELOCATE for a temporary period of time because the tribal elders and their trust on the constitution and the Islamic Republic of Pakistan was firm and concrete.

There's no example in recent or older history of such a massive exodus of people. Nobody's ever rebuilt schools, hospitals, colleges, roads and infrastructure after such massive destruction.

You're foolish to dishonor our martyred soldiers, their bravery is second to none: Men of God something which your lot CANNOT understand:
نَصْرٌ مِّنَ اللَّـهِ وَفَتْحٌ قَرِيبٌ


The PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN asked the military for a military intervention, they're much happier in SWAT today than they were back in 2009. Please do some research before dishonoring our Shuhadah on this forum.

On topic:

India's jester of an army chief will hammer the final nail in his coffin with this new development. If this dumbass lets loose a bunch of bhartis with drones on SEPARATISTS he's sure to speed up the process of a referendum in Kashmir under U.N security council's pending resolution. Not to mention he'd be fanning the flames of an already burning valley.

The ONLY solution to stop the flames is for him to vacate the valley with his raping murdering dogs before the flames reach further south down the valley. Blippin idiot will soon find out why.

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

but surely you don't deny that Muslims invaded and created their place here. Invasions aren't peaceful if you know the meaning of the word.

Hindus and Sikhs did the same thing you know. Whilst you can somewhat excuse the latter since it was founded by native Punjabis, Hinduism was founded by the Vedic Aryans who migrated to the region and shoved the caste system down the throats of the natives who wouldn't assimilate into their culture. I know you guys don't believe in the Aryan migrations, but everyone else does (because the evidence is overwhelming). Denying it is like denying evolution.

The reason of comparing Nazis with the Muslims of that era is that both of them killed lakhs of people...

You cannot compare the two, we were fighting during the age of empires against other people who were not only combatants but also a people who were completely barbaric, with practices such as sati being commonplace among them. And it's not like they didn't do similar things to us when they got the chance.

You as a community need to introspect why countries ranging from Angola in Africa to Philippines, to Russia, to Germany, to India, to Israel, to France, Spain, etc have this same 'phobia' against your community as a whole.

Some of them have genuine grievances, others (like yours) are just generally Islamophobic.

 

[Tshering22]

Some of them have genuine grievances, others (like yours) are just generally Islamophobic.

Islam's clash with our culture was much before the modern Western society even came into being.

West didn't care about your Arabs and rest of Muslims until 9/11, while our history goes wayyy back.

If anyone has a grouse that is legitimate, it is us (including what should be you, but your lineage gave in).

Its about sovereignty , you attack in our area, then even you miss our drones and air force won't.
If u want it to be more bloodier, then bring it on.

Most welcome.

Let's see where this goes.

Our fight to end jihadi terror will not stop until every terrorist is exterminated and normalcy is restored.

If it has to get bloodier, so be it.

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

Revert them. How is that destroying them?

Not reverting, converting. Most of us were born Muslim, as were some of our ancestors going back for a good few hundred (for many of us even over a thousand) years.

That is the same as wiping as out because either way, you're getting rid of Muslims.

I don't know much about your castes but I have heard of groups such as Syeds, Ashrafs etc. who hold 'senior' roles similar to brahmins. Now the muslims of many poor and underdeveloped areas of India may have converted by retain this hierarchical structure.

In Pakistan, castes only really come into play for comedic purposes (e.g making fun of people who come from tribes of a lower status) and when deciding who to marry. That's it.

Not only that, but many senior positions were and are held by people who's tribes are not associated with Islamic nobility. My family themselves are descended from a long line of Zamindars, but we are not Ashrafs, our tribe would be what one would refer to as Ajlaf (but these tribal identities really mean nothing these days due to how much intermixing has occurred between them, you can find many Ajlafs having higher amounts of Arabian and Iranian ancestry than Ashrafs).

there was a brutal and bloody history of dislike between foreign groups of Muslims and local Hindus, Jains, Buddhists, Sikhs etc

Not true, many locals who were not Muslim got along very well with the Muslim conquerors, forming part of the aristocracy and even becoming the parents of many Muslim rulers (e.g Shah Jahan had a Rajput mother). This is how Islam spread throughout the region, and how we have assimilated into the region's culture and became almost indistinguishable (genetically speaking) from our non-Muslim counterparts today. It was only those who acted bitter and tried to harm Muslims at any given opportunity that got punched in the gut. Remember, Muhammad Bin Qasim only rolled in after Muslim women were kidnapped by pirates and Raja Dahir refused to do anything.

Now coming to the 'renaming part'.

FYI Muslim names were enforced on already Vedic names.

And Vedic names were forced upon non-Vedic names. As said before, Vedics came from outside of India.

Babri Masjid has already been excavated by Archaeological Survey of India headed by a Muslim man known as Mr KK Mohammed who in his book has with pictures, shown the evidence of a temple below the mosque. Read about it.

Irrelevant, that temple was gone for hundreds of years and people were perfectly fine without it. Also, again, you're in no position to talk about building places of worship over someone else's. The Vedic people have pretty much completely removed all traces of the religions that existed in the region prior to their arrival.

Forced destruction of holy sites is not Muslim heritage; surely you would agree since you say that Islam is peaceful and people misinterpret it.

Islam is not anymore peaceful nor anymore violent than other religions. Calling it a religon of peace is as laughable as calling it a religion of violence.

How is asking for what was there before, with evidence, destruction of Muslim heritage? Muslim heritage was built on destroyed Hindu and Buddhist heritage sites. Isn't that wrong?

No, because it happened when the two communities were at war. Back then, this was considered normal. For example, the Sikhs desecrated Muslim places of worship during their rise to power and even stole materials from Masjids to decorate their temples. Has the Pakistani government ever stripped these Sikh temples of their ornaments? Has the Pakistani government ever destroyed any of them? No. Why? Because we recognise that back then, this was normal. However, it's not normal now, so doing it now is not only stupid because it would create communal tension, but also unjust.

Imagine if some Amazonians came and destroyed the Kaaba and built their own holy shrine on top of that then claim Amazonian heritage 4 centuries later; how would you feel? Would you not be angry?

There is no Hindu equivalent to the Kaba. You are comparing apples and oranges. A better example would be to ask me how I would feel about non-Muslims destroying an important Masjid (e.g the one in Samarkand that was built by the late great Timur), and I already explained my view about such a scenario.

 

[Hammad Arshad Qureshi]

And Indian army chief thinks that PAF would be drunk or watching cricket match when Indians try to attack us across LOC. Maybe he forgot last time in 2008 when Indian Air Force attempted to cross LOC somehow Ended in running away with tail inside thier legs after being chased by PAF . Also maybe someone should remind him of what happened to MiG -27 and MIG-21 during kargil conflict. F idiot army chief.

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

Islam's clash with our culture

Most of your culture comes from ours (e.g most of India's food comes from the Mughals, as do your clothes and much of your language).

If anyone has a grouse that is legitimate, it is us (including what should be you, but your lineage gave in).

No, our lineage didn't "give in", we are descended from the Islamic conquerors who assimilated into the region. Don't believe me?

https://www.harappadna.org/2012/05/harappaworld-admixture/

This is the Harappa admixture sheet. You will find that Muslims from Pakistan and north-west India have higher amounts of SW Asian (i.e Arab) ancestry than their non-Muslim counterparts from the same ethnic group. The only exceptions are a few of the Sikh populations, which would be expected since many Muslims did convert to Sikhism (since Islam was already pretty firmly established in the Punjab at that time).

I'll give you some examples:

Kashmiri Paharis (overwhelmingly Muslim): 2% SW Asian admixture
Kashmiri Pandits (overwhelmingly not Muslim): 0% SW Asian admixture

Punjabi Arains (overwhelmingly Muslim): 2% SW Asian admixture
Punjabi Muslim Jatts: 2% SW Asian admixture
Punjabi Brahmins: 0% SW Asian admixture

Gujarati Muslims: 4% SW Asian admixture
Gujarati Patels (overwhelmingly not Muslim): 0% SW Asian admixture

Here is a Punjabi Muslim Gujjar's ancestry results, he obtained 3% SW Asian admixture:

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?12411-Pakistani-Gujjar-Results-Harappa

Here are some studies on Muslim Gujjars from north-western India, they are shown to be genetically and physically distinct from their non-Muslim counterparts:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3163234

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3812661

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14524001

Also, the bulk of the workforce of these Muslim empires came from what is now Pakistan and India. Many of the rulers themselves were also native (or at the very least partially native) to the region.

Again, you have it coz we never fought for it.

Excuses excuses...

I understand that the pakistani revisionist history teaches you otherwise but no that's not true.

An Indian lecturing someone else about revisionist history. This should be good!

In 47, by using non state militants and when IA wasn't even present in Kashmir as it is now.
Literally, almost every time pak has gotten territory when IA wasn't there like in 47 and in kargil.

More excuses!

Yes op Gibraltar(a failure) counts as a preclude to the war. Stop making excuses.

Exactly. It's a PRELUDE to the war, not an actual part of it. Just like the Rann of Kutch dispute counts as a prelude to the war.

In the actual war, you attacked us in what was a rather poor attempt to try and take large portions of the Punjab and cripple our military. Your invasion was stopped in 17 days, making this one of the shortest wars in history.

We also demolished pak tanks in the largest tank battle after WW2 i.e. Asal Uttar.

Again, wrong. The largest tank battle since WW2 (and the 2nd largest tank battle in history) was the Battle of Chawinda, which we won. Your advance was halted:

Well if devastating pakistan's premier port Karachi

And we devasted Onka harbour in response.

causing billions worth of damage

Again, we did the same.

and finally establishing a naval blockade

Only a partial one.

destroying the economy and population of pak

Didn't happen. You made that up.

parting pak with a major chunk of its territory that would have produced great economic benefits

Our economy still continued to do better than yours up until the '90s, after which is declined due to other reasons.

Look at Bangladesh's growth rate, it is growing faster than pakistan and will overtake your economy in 2020-2021.

I doubt Bangladesh would be able to keep that up in the long run. Also, how well they do really isn't relevant, I care about how good Pakistan does, and our economy is finally starting to rapidly grow again.

As for Siachen.
If it is so unimportant then why are your soldiers still serving there?
Why let your soldiers fall prey to uncommon avalanches?

Because the region surrounding the Siachen is what matters. If India gets a hold of that, it becomes a problem.

Hate? Some pakistanis require a much needed self reflection.
Maybe you lot always thought of Bangladesh as such which is why they fought back against pakistani tyranny.

Even though we thought of most of them as an inferior people, they were the one who started the atrocities. Before the Pakistani military came in, Bengali militias were executing every non-Bengali they could find. That's what triggered the Pakistani crackdown.

As much as you would like to diminish the importance of losing East pakistan, a simple glance at how successful Bangladesh has become today should automatically quash such rhetoric.

They were bound to leave eventually, and it was almost 50 years ago. Most Pakistanis don't particularly care.

During 2002 standoff India had bombarded Pakistani posts on pt.5353 using artillery guns. Later Pakistan opened fire on Indian posts but they were not that effective as all Pakistani artillery observation posts in the region were effectively engaged and destroyed by Indian artillery fire which was directed by Indian troops at pt.5245. It depends on who takes the initiative and fires first. Pt.5353 is located at altitude higher than nearby features and will be something to worry of for Indian Army. This is where IAF's role will come into play

You can make as many excuses as you like, it doesn't change the facts on the ground.

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

Islam's clash with our culture was much before the modern Western society even came into being.

West didn't care about your Arabs and rest of Muslims until 9/11, while our history goes wayyy back.

If anyone has a grouse that is legitimate, it is us (including what should be you, but your lineage gave in).



Most welcome.

Let's see where this goes.

Our fight to end jihadi terror will not stop until every terrorist is exterminated and normalcy is restored.

If it has to get bloodier, so be it.

Just do it. But ur army know why they can't.
Collateral damage issue is for IOK not azad Kashmir but still he can't do it.

 

[MimophantSlayer]

Pakistan saw one of the largest displacement of people during the beginning of our full-scale WAR ON TERROR.


Millions of people were relocated and provided shelter & safety far away from their infiltrated lands. The best thing about this mass migration was the PEOPLE's willingness to RELOCATE for a temporary period of time because the tribal elders and their trust on the constitution and the Islamic Republic of Pakistan was firm and concrete.


There's no example in recent or older history of such a massive exodus of people. Nobody's ever rebuilt schools, hospitals, colleges, roads and infrastructure after such massive destruction.

For some odd reason, some pdf pakistanis think we can't put in 2 clicks to fact check them.

The oppressed, languishing people clearly so wanted to be thrown out of their homes unceremoniously.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-27980938

https://tribune.com.pk/story/751875/in-the-lurch-idps-from-eidak-face-food-water-shortage/

How rosy IDPs’ lives were during and after being dislocated.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/926515...s-protest-hostile-attitude-of-police-customs/

https://tribune.com.pk/story/739351...eaths-pour-in-as-tribesmen-threaten-protests/

https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/world/8168-all-pashtuns-want-freedom-pak

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/pakistan-pashtuns-march-justice-180224114356113.html

https://www.dawn.com/news/1215686

How rosy their lives are now.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018...akistan-south-waziristan-180205091656542.html

https://www.dawn.com/news/1426689/pashteen-vows-to-continue-struggle-for-pakhtun-rights

https://www.pajhwok.com/en/2018/05/02/75pc-newly-built-schools-need-repair-survey-finds

DO realise that you are patting yourself on the back for “solving” a problem you created.

You're foolish to dishonor our martyred soldiers, their bravery is second to none: Men of God something which your lot CANNOT understand:

نَصْرٌ مِّنَ اللَّـهِ وَفَتْحٌ قَرِيبٌ

The PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN asked the military for a military intervention, they're much happier in SWAT today than they were back in 2009. Please do some research before dishonoring our Shuhadah on this forum

LOL.
Dishonour?

My initial riposte was both factual and completely kosher. Had you dialled down that persecution complex, you’d have seen that.

Either way, don’t ask me to consider anything when you yourself aren’t willing to give the same benefit of the doubt; sitting in a comfortable room far away from the conflict and calling our soldiers names.

On topic:


India's jester of an army chief will hammer the final nail in his coffin with this new development. If this dumbass lets loose a bunch of bhartis with drones on SEPARATISTS he's sure to speed up the process of a referendum in Kashmir under U.N security council's pending resolution. Not to mention he'd be fanning the flames of an already burning valley.


The ONLY solution to stop the flames is for him to vacate the valley with his raping murdering dogs before the flames reach further south down the valley. Blippin idiot will soon find out why

Relax, we won’t be sending drones.

We don’t need drones, jets, tanks or even arti to do something our men on the ground are sufficient for. All we needed was a polity brave enough to not hinder IA, which we have gotten now. And as expected the terries are dropping like flies.

The only solution to stop the strife in Kashmir is for pakistan to stop sending terrorists into India, stay within its own means and spit out that Indophobic pill it has been trying to swallow for over half a century now,

“Indians will soon find out”, “India will burn”, “Kashmir will be ours”, blah to the blah to the blah…..

While Pakistan was suffering economically, diplomatically, democratically and going through coup after coup dreaming of the above, India was busy becoming a prosperous BRICS nation with one of the fastest growth rates in the world, while simultaneously fighting off pak and china.

But do carry on, Pakistanis have always hoped against hope that India be as destabilized as Pakistan is, not that it’s working.

Excuses excuses...

It's the bitter truth unfortunately.

An Indian lecturing someone else about revisionist history. This should be good!

Ad hominem.

More excuses!

Facts.

Exactly. It's a PRELUDE to the war, not an actual part of it. Just like the Rann of Kutch dispute counts as a prelude to the war.

Yes it was the part of the war.

Literally half a month before another major offensive with 10s of 1000s of soldier participting in it, if that ain't war I don't know what is.

In the actual war, you attacked us in what was a rather poor attempt to try and take large portions of the Punjab and cripple our military. Your invasion was stopped in 17 days, making this one of the shortest wars in history.

LOL what?

Let's give you the benefit of the doubt let's say that Gibraltar was not a part of the war.

Literally the next offensive was the Grand Slam by PA and not by IA.

The battle didn't reach punjab until the 5th-6th September when we launched the counter offensive hence the failure of yet another pakistani op.

Again, wrong. The largest tank battle since WW2 (and the 2nd largest tank battle in history) was the Battle of Chawinda, which we won. Your advance was halted:

No you didn't, the battle was largely undecisive, you halted our advance in YOUR territory, after our armoured columns were sufficiently thinned out in the tank battles of Phillori, Barki and Assal Uttar, all of which we won decisively.

At the end of the war we were in your territory, you might have stopped us temporarily before the UN intervened but the fact remains that we were fighting inside pakistani territory.

Thus, claims of “victory” remain moot as you failed to remove us.


BTW this is all nitpicking, and it really doesn’t matter if pak stopped our counter offensive that one time after continuously losing battles in its own territory, or who wanted whose territory and who shot the first bullet. All that maters is when the war ended eventually IA had captured more territory than PA.

And we devasted Onka harbour in response.

And then we launched Op. Python and eventually blockaded you.

Again, we did the same.

Not really, we did far more damage to you then you did to us. Everyone knows that much, which is why everyone considers 1971 an Indian victory.

Only a partial one.

That's still one more than PN.


When all merchant ships have to ask you(IN) to be let in and when PN can't operate freely in their own territory, that's a successful blockade in anyone's book.

Didn't happen. You made that up.

War of any kind puts a strain on the resources especially so(usually) for the losing side.

You not only lost land, you lost a tax generating avenue which as proven now will surpass Pakistan in 2-3 years.


As per Hussain Haqqani, former pak Ambassador to both USA and Sri Lanka.


The breakaway of East Pakistan to become Bangladesh was the most traumatic event in Pakistan’s
short life as an independent nation. The country’s population was reduced by more than half. Pakistan
lost a significant portion of its territory, its geopolitical role in Southeast Asia, and an important
segment of its economy.

Our economy still continued to do better than yours up until the '90s, after which is declined due to other reasons.

With foreign support, sure.

But what happened eventually was that the true potential of both our countries showed and now we have ended up becoming a BRICS nation with one of the fastest growth rates in the world today whereas Pakistan is languishing still.

I doubt Bangladesh would be able to keep that up in the long run. Also, how well they do really isn't relevant, I care about how good Pakistan does, and our economy is finally starting to rapidly grow again.

On the contrary, all forecasts project Bangladesh continuing its growth pattern for decades to come, it’s Pakistan with its rising debt and falling Forex reserves that we can’t be sure if it can maintain its already insufficient growth rate.

Because the region surrounding the Siachen is what matters. If India gets a hold of that, it becomes a problem.

Soooo, Siachen is important.
Again, if it wasn't important pakistan wouldn't have attacked us when we captured all the important points in Siachen.

Even though we thought of most of them as an inferior people, they were the one who started the atrocities. Before the Pakistani military came in, Bengali militias were executing every non-Bengali they could find. That's what triggered the Pakistani crackdown.

No they didn’t. That’s a lie.

Cultural differences have always brought some minor struggles but it was never a full on genocide like how the Pak forces initiated in East pak.

The same difference are there in the Punjabi dominated eastern parts vs the western portions of Pakistan today which is why some sectarian issues always emerge.

What triggered Bangladesh’s freedom movement was the tyranny of Pakistan as it was forcefully making the Bengalis change their linguistic heritage and accept a foreign culture, under represented them in major governmental organisations, deposed their democratically elected leaders, humiliated them on the basis of not being a martial race, etc.

The way in which Bangladesh has risen today, in fact proves that they were never inferior and it was Pakistan in the wrong.

They were bound to leave eventually, and it was almost 50 years ago. Most Pakistanis don't particularly care.

Maybe you are saying so coz an Indian is in the picture but you don’t really forget these things.

If we ended up losing a territory that became much more successful than us while we were languishing economically, it would irk us too.

 

[abrar khan]

In 71 we parted you with almost half your territory, a major chunk of your population and changed your name forever and in 84 took Siachen and gained some 1000 sqm right from under your nose.

Poor information on your part at least go and google if you know Bangladesh (former west Pakistan), total area is 147,570 km2 = (56,980 sq mi), whereas Pakistan spanning 881,913 square kilometres (340,509 square miles) means you parted 16% of our land and formed another Muslim state.

In fact, if your brainless head can understand, 1947 we parted Hindustan and changed its name forever ( no more HINDU stan ) India and Pakistan.

This statement is only for your correction, I usually don't put my nose in di*k measurement contest.

 

[Tshering22]

Just do it. But ur army know why they can't.
Collateral damage issue is for IOK not azad Kashmir but still he can't do it.

He is floating an idea in a press meet.

Not exactly doing it.

If he has to do it, he will. Do you really think it would be mulled over aloud in front of a press conference?

 

[Taimoor Khan]

I know what you're saying, I'm just saying that's a bs excuse to save face, and resorting to ad homiem further proves that, as people usually get desperate trying to defend an indefensible pov.

Your sold nothing as no one bought your s#it narrative, it fooled no one as the pak DG ISI rightly said.
Enough with the virtue signaling, no one thinks you lot are that righteous.
Where was all this "good faith" from your 'oh-we-don't-wanna-seem-to-be-supporting-mujahideen' airforce in 1965 when there were both "Mujahideen" and the PAF fighters participating in the same f###ing war?

PAF was reluctant to face IAF coz IAF had inducted since the 80s, Mirage2000s and Mig29s in large numbers that flew higher, faster and had BVRAAMs. PAF knew that if they participated in the war and saved their countrymen from the repeated pounding they were getting, they risked being drawn into an aerial war of attrition with an airforce not only larger but also more importantly possessing fighters that have achieved tech parity and superior in some most cases to PAF fighters, unlike in the previous wars.

Kid, 1965 was a full fledged war. kargil was localised and very restricted conflict with the nuclear hangover over it with both sides knowing fully well the cost of escalation. Today's warfare has changes completely to the ones in 60s and 70s. Even PAF high-ups of time were not happy as they were not consulted about the kargil operation. You cannot knock down enemy jets in their own controlled air space, when you are telling the rest of the world that some random "non state" Mujahedeens are fighting on the ground. That narrative completely restricted how far PAF can go.

That BS of IAF is superior has been repeated many times over YET in war PAF tonked IAF and enjoy a embarrassingly high kill ratio against IAF. Where were your superior jets when Musharaf flew 10 kms inside your controlled airspace and spend whole night INSIDE your controlled territory?

 

[Mighty Lion]

No, Pakistan still occupies the most strategic point in Kargil, which is 5353. And we only retreated because of political pressure being placed on Musharaf both internally and externally, we still held on to a significant portion of the region after several months of your forces trying to evict us (but to no avail, despiting outnumbering us more than 5 times over).

But I know your leadership will never tell you that. They're too arrogant, whereas ours actually teaches us of our mistakes (e.g 1971) and how to learn from them.

Lol.
We occupy the even more important strategically Point 5310 which is located 1 km inside Pakistan and was captured by us in a cross LoC up as retaliation for P5353.

Point 5310 enables us to dominate entire vital Karubar supply lines.

Yep, and your own military admits how strategically important it is.

Point 5310 is more important.

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

even more important strategically

Your army disagrees. Also, this occurred after the Kargil War. Not during it.

It's the bitter truth unfortunately.

Not quite.

Ad hominem.

The same tactic you also previously used. So now you've also engaged in hypocrisy.

Yes it was the part of the war.

No, it wasn't. It was a prelude to the war, just like the skirmishes in the Rann of Kutch. The war officially started on the 6th of September when the international border was breached.

you halted our advance

Exactly, so we won.

Thus, claims of “victory” remain moot as you failed to remove us.

No, it doesn't remain moot, we halted your advance and you failed to make any significant gains. You didn't even achieve your main objective:

IA had captured more territory than PA.

Nonsense.

Since you love to quote Hussain Haqqani:

http://www.husainhaqqani.com/2004/when-image-is-truth-and-truth-is-an-image/

"Pakistan occupied 1,600 sq miles of Indian territory, 1,300 of it in the desert, while India secured 350 sq miles"

It's not our problem if your army lies to you about how much land that we took.

we did far more damage to you then you did to us.

You lost more aircraft, and Bengali+Indian casualties were far higher than that of Pakistan's. So pipe down.

which as proven now will surpass Pakistan in 2-3 years.

As said before, even if this does occur I doubt they would be able to sustain it.

With foreign support, sure.

What's that supposed to mean? Our success was as self-made as anyone else's. And if you doubt our capability, just open a history book to see just what a Muslim can do when he puts his mind to it.

whereas Pakistan is languishing still.

Not quite, our economic growth rate is pretty good, and unlike you most of us have toilets.

Soooo, Siachen is important.

No, the region surrounding the Siachen is important. The Siachen conflict itself is literally described as "two bald men fighting over a comb".

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8p19H4UwE_AC&pg=PA109&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

No they didn’t. That’s a lie.

Get back to me when your head is out of the sand. Until then, I'm not going to continue talking about this subject with someone who's clearly ignorant about it.

 

[Mighty Lion]

Your army disagrees. Also, this occurred after the Kargil War. Not during it.

Fight for both Point 5310 & Pount 5353 happened after Kargil.
Northern Army commander himself revealed strategic importance of Point 5310.