We are in a mess, I can't spell it out: Manohar Parrikar

[sancho]

@sancho that import is due to non use of private sector, lack of modernization in government owned yards, which changed recently and a strange government policy.
The other thing is lack of funding for navy, navy would want to fund more projects, but is constrained by funds so its prioritizing. Navy has a fundamental understanding of our MIC and you will see more involvement in the UAV sector as it matures.
The other problem is turf war between IN and IAF in the sectors you said.
In helos the navy is involved, the problem is with the Dhruv platform. The development is still on though.

Funding is not the problem, otherwise the navy couldn't buy that much foreign stuff, not to mention that it's the least important force for Indias defence, which makes it logical to spend more on IA and IAF.
Also the turf with IAF has no relation either, HAL for example is thinking about a 10t class medium helicopter development for a long time and wanted to team up with Russian or European manufacturers. IN easily could had asked MoD to give that project importance, by the fact that they need up to 100 such helicopters in the long term, but they didn't! Instead they are going on a shopping tour for any kind of foreign helicopters they can get.
Same goes for UAV developments that they could had pushed, like the unmanned helicopter development with IAI, that was scrapped by the lack if interest from our side! IN could had been the prime beneficiary from that drone, since they could use it for surveillance roles from their naval vessels. Even Saras could offer potential to be modified into a unmaned MALE drone, but IN now ordered Do 228 MPAs, which even makes it doubtful that manned Saras will be bought by IN anymore. So the navy has missed out several chances to get involved into Indian aviation projects and lead them in a similar way as they do in naval vessel development, while putting high focus on imports the more their budget increases.

 

[The_Sidewinder]

Hopefully things get better.

 

[Screambowl]

I can vouch for what you said. The Navy has had enlightened leadership, and it was forced to after SM Nanda's dealings came to light. But among all forces, its been the Army that has been the most corrupt when it comes to procurement.


Not very few. The number of IIT B.Techs that join IAS, or Indian companies are over 50%. Rampant brain drain is largely a myth today.

and only few could sustain, after gaining experience they leave for abroad. Thats the reality. Only for experience gain they join. More over outside if you do masters you need to have little work experience, or if you want to sit for IIM. Well in the end they are in west

 

[Nihil]

and only few could sustain, after gaining experience they leave for abroad. Thats the reality. Only for experience gain they join. More over outside if you do masters you need to have little work experience, or if you want to sit for IIM. Well in the end they are in west

Not really, in the last several batches, over half are still in India. I am an IITian myself, so I do know the reality, as opposed to what Times of India reports.

 

[Screambowl]

Not really, in the last several batches, over half are still in India. I am an IITian myself, so I do know the reality, as opposed to what Times of India reports.

which IIT? your major?

 

[nair]

Well, one can realize one thing and do another. The new government is in record to make India more self reliant to reduce the defence imports, but didn't rejected a single procurement in favour for an indigenous product or development. Their aim is not self reliance by increased indigenous developments, but increased production in India, no matter of where the product was developed. So even if they realized the problem, they aim on something else!

There are 2 things to it, 1) Govt's will to make India self reliant in defence production 2) Armed forces confidence in indigenous products,
Both are important and relative to each other, so the scenario is tricky, and government may take some time to change the defence procurement policy...... But the Make India campaign is for domestic consumption (boost the image of Govt) basically, but it does have some advantage over making it overseas. and Raghuram has clearly spoken on this policy......(But i think if we can improve our reverse engineering capability then "Make India" campaign make sense......)

More cooperation with the IIT is a good step to improve the base of DRDO or PSU's, but the problem is the head of DRDO! The high officials that take the wrong decisions, that are not taken accountable, that are simply bad in project management and cooperation with the forces. More than improving the base, an actual reform on how the PSUs work, would be much better to improve them and Indian defence developments, if the long term aim is self reliance.

I think this is one area where Modi can make a change, He is some one who knows how to drive our babu's and bureaucrats, he hold them accountable, Probably his experience in this will bring some change in the way DRDO works, Making them accountable is the best thing one can do..... All those guys do is give interviews and bashans nothing else.....

 

[Nihil]

which IIT? your major?

IIT Kharagpur. I will leave major aside.

 

[Screambowl]

IIT Kharagpur. I will leave major aside.

masters or bachelors?

 

[Nihil]

masters or bachelors?

5 year Dual Degree with B.Tech(H) and M.Tech.

 

[Screambowl]

5 year Dual Degree with B.Tech(H) and M.Tech.

then you will accept that IIT is one of the institution which degraded the country in the name of computer science and IT. IITians failed to produce reliable technology in India for civil sector. In the end it is always the ToT from west

 

[Krate M]

@sancho
Lack of importance to NRUAV due to connection to Israel, same with helos due to connection to Russia, low budget for local developed products and import of P8i are all past government decision which are tied to the vote bank politics and being beholden to US foreign policy respectively.
Import of helos has become critical due to unavailability of Dhruv and age of seaking helo.
UAV development will see future interest. Do228 buy is a smart pragmatic move

 

[Nihil]

then you will accept that IIT is one of the institution which degraded the country in the name of computer science and IT. IITians failed to produce reliable technology in India for civil sector. In the end it is always the ToT from west

Not completely true. IIT Kharagpur for example, always had close relationships with ISRO, and the Navy. Most IITs have contributed a lot, in terms of IP and forex both. And frankly, IT was always a passing fad. When I was there, the fad was finance. And this happens, because in India everyone's family pushes them for higher earning jobs. But things are changing, and they will still take more time.
For all the hate the IITs get, they have a budget which is 1% of MIT, and even the oldest IIT Kharagpur, is still less than half the age of MIT.
Excellence takes both time and money. And Indians are willing to invest neither, yet demand results. It has never happened, and never will. To put it even more starkly, I am pursuing my PhD from a department which is ranked in the top 5 globally, and it has a larger budget than the IITs.

 

[The Huskar]

that time is gone. When we will start. now is the time of TOT.

TOT can only help us to a certain extent.No country will help us in critical areas of technology.They have to be indigenously developed.

 

[Screambowl]

Not completely true. IIT Kharagpur for example, always had close relationships with ISRO, and the Navy. Most IITs have contributed a lot, in terms of IP and forex both. And frankly, IT was always a passing fad. When I was there, the fad was finance. And this happens, because in India everyone's family pushes them for higher earning jobs. But things are changing, and they will still take more time.
For all the hate the IITs get, they have a budget which is 1% of MIT, and even the oldest IIT Kharagpur, is still less than half the age of MIT.

Yes there are affiliations with DRDO and ISRO, but those projects are not innovative. If budget is worthless, that is failure of IIT to increase its budget. Most of the budget remains un-utilized, and next fiscal year , the budget gets reduced by how much is left unutilized. If 25 lakhs are alloted to mech dept in IITkrg, in the end of the year somehow 7 to 8 lakhs remain as it is and Gov bashes the admin, and reduced the budget by 2-3 lakhs for the next fiscal year.But IISc is doing pretty good job though.

TOT can only help us to a certain extent.No country will help us in critical areas of technology.They have to be indigenously developed.

It will take 10 years to update our tools and able to develop more tools out of research so that new research can be realized through them

 

[Nihil]

Yes there are affiliations with DRDO and ISRO, but those projects are not innovative. If budget is worthless, that is failure of IIT to increase its budget. Most of the budget remains un-utilized, and next fiscal year , the budget gets reduced by how much is left unutilized. If 25 lakhs are alloted to mech dept in IITkrg, in the end of the year somehow 7 to 8 lakhs remain as it is and Gov bashes the admin, and reduced the budget by 2-3 lakhs for the next fiscal year.But IISc is doing pretty good job though.

True. I remember the Lithium ion battery project in KGP was a fiasco. But, you know what, such fiascos happen even in top US universities too. And frankly 25 lacs is still laughably small. A medium sized US NSF grant is in the ballpark of half a million dollars, which is almost 3 crores in Indian rupees. Such grants are negligibly rare.
We need postdocs, much better equipment, faculty transfers, and student exchanges. NO HRD ministry has ever cared to do that. And the budget issues are not IITs fault. CNR Rao, a Bharat Ratna has cried himself hoarse over the years, but few, if any people in the ministry haave listened to him. One of the best things we could do is to clean the HRD ministry of IAS bureaucrats, and bring some real educationists there.