Washington Should Urge Greater South Korean–Japanese Military and Diplomatic Cooperation

[Aepsilons]

It seems Japanese believe the time can solve past scars, it's 21century the media news and internet always remind local ppl to remember the dark history, it's not 1400s or 1500s without network and TV box.

Time is changed, the solution also need change.

One thing that I, as a Japanese, have to say is that the national psyche of Japanese, Korean and even some North East Chinese is our 'Save Face' tendency. Seriously, we still hold grudges on each other for the mistakes, of long dead generations. I think that is a unique character amongst North East Asian cultures as compared to other civilizations. And this needs to be overcome, because it prevents us to find common ground, to find a way to get past these grudges, animosity.

It serves no purpose except keeping us 'myopic'. This is the 21st century. I mean, we've found out already that 99.9999% of all humans share same genetic codons, with minor differences that influences phenotype. Yet some people still hold on to xenophobic tendencies -- that serve nothing but hate other cultures and peoples.

We don't live in 1592, 1905, 1937, 1945.

We are living in 2014.

 

[kalu_miah]

You're not getting my point, by retaining historical-based animosity, there is no progress. I understand the importance of history and national character, but by using it to sponsor direct animosity and hatred / distrust against modern - day Japan and Japanese people is unfair. The new generation of Japan had ABSOLUTELY 0% to do with the actions of our grandfathers' generation. So , at your pointing, someone like me -- who was born in 1986 should be blamed and held responsible for the actions of an Imperial Soldier who lived in the 1900s, and by the foolish policies of the Fascist regime that was toppled form power in 1945? Do you see the ludicrous position of your post?

I agree with you, logically they should not hold any grudge for younger generations who had nothing to do with past atrocities. So this is not my position at all, rather I am trying to point out the current reality of the situation from my observation of Koreans. Some nations are more forgetful, like my own nation Bangladesh, but Koreans are not like that in my observation. From what I have seen they judge a nation and people from the sum total of their experience with them, and even if it is centuries back, it is counted less, but its not forgotten.

These are the exact words I heard from at least one Korean I know, Japanese people never changed, they are still the same. I think Japanese reluctance to sincerely apologize and coming to terms with the past has something to do with this, which Germany did to a much greater satisfaction of the "victims".

Since, I am not a Korean, I could very well be wrong, as all this is 3rd party observation.

 

[Aepsilons]

@kalu_miah ,

Both Korea and Japan have the national psyche of 'saving face'. Japanese people believe they have been apologizing non stop for over 70 years. I mean, i myself have even apologized plenty of times in this forum when Chinese posters go into the topic of past crimes committed by Imperial Japan. A lot of people in Japan do feel guilty for our involvement, and a trait in Japanese culture is not talking about something that makes one feel uncomfortable. Japan, despite our country and society being industrialized, still has cultural affinity.

Politicians have been apologizing to governments of nations that we have hurt in the past. The issue that arises angst is when a politician visits Yasukuni Shrine. Its impossible for Japanese politicians not to visit that Shrine, because that shrine is a Shinto shrine (a religious shrine) to honor the soldiers of Japan. It honors the souls of soldiers who fought durinng the Bakufu , during the civil wars, during the Russian - Japanese War, the Sino-Japanese War, World War 1, World War II, and to the Japanese SDF soldiers that have died abroad. Think of it as similar to the American Tomb of the unknown soldier, which is considered as hallowed ground by Americans. For us, we do sincerely apologize for any attrocities committed, but we also honor the memory and give respect to the souls of Japanese soldiers who died for our country.

This is a unique trait that not many people understand, but for us, it is distinctively Japanese. Our society cherishes the memories of our ancestors. And do give obeisence to them, the good and the bad. Because it is the duty to give respect to those who are our elders.

I hope that kind of explains our position.

Germany did to a much greater satisfaction of the "victims".

I know that Japan was guilty of the Nanking Massacre, and seeing images of it brings me to shame. Stories of attrocities that happened to Allied POWs, such as the Bataan Death March, the British POWs from Singapore etc. We learned about this in high school, and i read more about personal accounts when i studied abroad. These are truly shameful events.

I am in no way trying to excuse the actions of Imperial soldiers, no, because they were guilty. However, Japan did not systematically liquidate people based on their religious background as Nazis did. They (Nazis) killed over 12 million European Jews, as well as Gypsies (over 2 million). Mass murder in the grand scale.

 

[kalu_miah]

@kalu_miah ,

Both Korea and Japan have the national psyche of 'saving face'. Japanese people believe they have been apologizing non stop for over 70 years. I mean, i myself have even apologized plenty of times in this forum when Chinese posters go into the topic of past crimes committed by Imperial Japan. A lot of people in Japan do feel guilty for our involvement, and a trait in Japanese culture is not talking about something that makes one feel uncomfortable. Japan, despite our country and society being industrialized, still has cultural affinity.

Politicians have been apologizing to governments of nations that we have hurt in the past. The issue that arises angst is when a politician visits Yasukuni Shrine. Its impossible for Japanese politicians not to visit that Shrine, because that shrine is a Shinto shrine (a religious shrine) to honor the soldiers of Japan. It honors the souls of soldiers who fought durinng the Bakufu , during the civil wars, during the Russian - Japanese War, the Sino-Japanese War, World War 1, World War II, and to the Japanese SDF soldiers that have died abroad. Think of it as similar to the American Tomb of the unknown soldier, which is considered as hallowed ground by Americans. For us, we do sincerely apologize for any attrocities committed, but we also honor the memory and give respect to the souls of Japanese soldiers who died for our country.

This is a unique trait that not many people understand, but for us, it is distinctively Japanese. Our society cherishes the memories of our ancestors. And do give obeisence to them, the good and the bad. Because it is the duty to give respect to those who are our elders.

I hope that kind of explains our position.



I know that Japan was guilty of the Nanking Massacre, and seeing images of it brings me to shame. Stories of attrocities that happened to Allied POWs, such as the Bataan Death March, the British POWs from Singapore etc. We learned about this in high school, and i read more about personal accounts when i studied abroad. These are truly shameful events.

I am in no way trying to excuse the actions of Imperial soldiers, no, because they were guilty. However, Japan did not systematically liquidate people based on their religious background as Nazis did. They (Nazis) killed over 12 million European Jews, as well as Gypsies (over 2 million). Mass murder in the grand scale.

I appreciate your taking the time to explain the Japanese view. Yasukuni Shrine would not rile up others, if the names of war-deads (war hero's) there did not include some class-A war criminals who committed atrocities in other countries. So when you insist on honoring them in a shrine, that will not be viewed in a good light by others, that is just common sense. When Japan was isolationist before Meiji restoration period, then whatever wars you had most were inside Japan, except for that Hideyoshi invasion and some other invasion some 1400 years back during Wa period.

After Meiji restoration, Japan became expansionist and had many wars abroad. So may be you should try to separate between these two periods, one is your true tradition and the other was newly created with Meiji restoration and resulting Imperial Japan. That could be one way to resolve this war-dead Yasukuni issue. I am not making any suggestion, just making an observation.

I am not sure what impression you get about me. I am an well wisher of Japanese people, just like I am an well wisher of Chinese as well as Korean people. I would like to see all 3 of you resolve your differences and work together as a new core for the Asian economy, where you can lead all of Asia and make it like a developed EU like area. I am no Japan hater, as my people had no historical interaction with Japanese people. As a country Bangladesh has received many help and aid from Japan, so I would be ungrateful to not acknowledge that.

But I express my views mainly towards that constructive end that I mentioned, which I believe all of us have a collective stake in. So I hope you see my comments in that light.

 

[cnleio]

@Nihonjin1051 A question as a normal Chinese, Do u think Japanese politician can do like the former German prime minister did in 1970 for Nazi crime ？If Japanese leader did this, i say Chinese or Korean ppl must forgive the Japan in WWII.

 

[xunzi]

@kalu_miah ,

Both Korea and Japan have the national psyche of 'saving face'. Japanese people believe they have been apologizing non stop for over 70 years. I mean, i myself have even apologized plenty of times in this forum when Chinese posters go into the topic of past crimes committed by Imperial Japan. A lot of people in Japan do feel guilty for our involvement, and a trait in Japanese culture is not talking about something that makes one feel uncomfortable. Japan, despite our country and society being industrialized, still has cultural affinity.

Politicians have been apologizing to governments of nations that we have hurt in the past. The issue that arises angst is when a politician visits Yasukuni Shrine. Its impossible for Japanese politicians not to visit that Shrine, because that shrine is a Shinto shrine (a religious shrine) to honor the soldiers of Japan. It honors the souls of soldiers who fought durinng the Bakufu , during the civil wars, during the Russian - Japanese War, the Sino-Japanese War, World War 1, World War II, and to the Japanese SDF soldiers that have died abroad. Think of it as similar to the American Tomb of the unknown soldier, which is considered as hallowed ground by Americans. For us, we do sincerely apologize for any attrocities committed, but we also honor the memory and give respect to the souls of Japanese soldiers who died for our country.

This is a unique trait that not many people understand, but for us, it is distinctively Japanese. Our society cherishes the memories of our ancestors. And do give obeisence to them, the good and the bad. Because it is the duty to give respect to those who are our elders.
.

As a little brother, you should know that you cannot hide your face from us and Korean. You think you did enough apologizing. We know you apologize. The question is whether your apology is really sincere or just a facade to cover up. I think you know the answer to that question. Don't apologize and go around trying to revise history of your militaristic past. Don't apologize when you demonstrate to have no feeling for sex slave. Don't apologize if you continue to visit Yasukuni Shrine. Don't apologize if you resist any attempt to remove war criminals from the shrine. The list goes on... It is better if you don't apologize at all. Your action goes counteract to your apologies. And here, you ask why you are not welcome to re-militarization in Korea and China.

 

[Beast]

@Nihonjin1051 A question as a normal Chinese, Do u think Japanese politician can do like the former German prime minister did in 1970 for Nazi crime ？If Japanese leader did this, i say Chinese or Korean ppl must forgive the Japan in WWII.

Not only that, they must shift out the ashes of General Tojo ,Yamashita and other A class WWII criminal from Yasukuni Shrine and stop worshipping these criminal who killed millions of asian and european.

 

[AKIRAKUMA]

How long!
Japan and South Korea a good cooperation, containment of China.....Is America's aspirations?
But historical issues...he he
Some injuries, time is not healing.I hope Japan can understand.
[Three East Asian Countries' daily ]

 

[silverblade]

@Nihonjin1051
I have been reluctant to reply for I can see your efforts presenting an alternative view of a very understanding, caring and likeable japanese. My wife and I don't have issue with japanese people. In fact we respect and have good impression with the japanese people we have met in real life. The issue is your govt particularly Abe, he doesn't even show us a little respect to win us over, his way of courting us is by renewing Japan's claim on Dokdo, rewrite elementary syllabus on Dokdo etc etc (I am lazy to elaborate)

 

[terranMarine]

Nihonjin1051, don't use the "we Japanese regret what happened", you do not represent the Japanese population or the government. Only Japanese who have been living abroad in the US for example such as yourself know the massacre events. Highschool history books in Japan only cover few pages about Japanese war attrocities during WW2 in Asia, thus plenty of Japanese citizens have zero clues other than portraying themselves being a victim of the atomic bombs. At least in Germany history is not distorted regarding what happened to the Jews. If Japan wishes to improve ties with China and Korea the government should educate its people the truth, stop the nonsense war shrine visits.

 

[Aepsilons]

@Nihonjin1051
I have been reluctant to reply for I can see your efforts presenting an alternative view of a very understanding, caring and likeable japanese. My wife and I don't have issue with japanese people. In fact we respect and have good impression with the japanese people we have met in real life. The issue is your govt particularly Abe, he doesn't even show us a little respect to win us over, his way of courting us is by renewing Japan's claim on Dokdo, rewrite elementary syllabus on Dokdo etc etc (I am lazy to elaborate)

The position of PM Shinzo Abe is that Japan must be capable to respond to rising threats in North East Asia. His position is that Japan , as a great power , cannot afford to be emasculated and must rise to the occasion in addressing security threats: 1) North Korea, 2) Chinese aggression, 3) Piracy, 4) Global Terrorism.

I believe that Japan is open to military to military exchanges with South Korea. In fact, we had a planned 2012 trilateral exercise , but the Park administration cancelled.

 

[Aepsilons]

Nihonjin1051, don't use the "we Japanese regret what happened", you do not represent the Japanese population or the government. Only Japanese who have been living abroad in the US for example such as yourself know the massacre events. Highschool history books in Japan only cover few pages about Japanese war attrocities during WW2 in Asia, thus plenty of Japanese citizens have zero clues other than portraying themselves being a victim of the atomic bombs. At least in Germany history is not distorted regarding what happened to the Jews. If Japan wishes to improve ties with China and Korea the government should educate its people the truth, stop the nonsense war shrine visits.

First, I believe you have not interacted with enough Japanese citizens for you to make such a judgment about the national character. You have to be objective and understand that there are over 128 million Japanese in Japan. We have, overall, very favorable views of China and Chinese people; and don't wish any military conflict. However, at the same time, Japan should be entitled to develop its national defense capabilities and it should. We are the 3rd largest economy in the world (GDP). In fact, I even am a supporter of Japan to develop Nuclear Defense Program.