Was British Raj actually good for South Asia?

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Bad, because the British were instrumental in the fall of the Mughal dynasty and fueled all sorts of divisive policies and rhetoric which continues to drive different communities apart.

The very fact that 1857 saw Muslim and Hindu unity in re-instating a Muslim monarch proves the British had a large hand in our differences.

The favoritism of Hindu/Sikhs and the neglect and ostracization of Muslims in India, Bangladesh, and Pakistan areas at that time was official British policy.

Without the British, we may have continued to live happily under Muslim rule, or maybe they just accelerated the process of division which was naturally bringing the two communities apart.

 

[Verve]

The end result whatever the consequences, the best thing happened for us - we got Pakistan instead of being ruled by Hindu!

 

[El Sidd]

How cute

Arent i

 

[Hamza913]

If Partition had happened in a sane manner, we would have been living peacefully.

I doubt it. Muslims and Hindus have, historically speaking, almost never got along. It's not surprising that we still don't.

I can't remember the last time that happened to us. When we actually ruled ourselves, that is.

Pfft, we've ruled over ourselves (and others) numerous times (and I mean from an ethnic perspective, not from a "Muslims are one" perspective, but that works too).

Indus Valley Civilisation:

Early Vedic era:

Rai dynasty as described by the Chachnama:

"The limits of his dominions extended on the east to the boundary of Kashmir, on the west to Makran, on the south to the coast of the sea and Debal, and on the north to the mountains of Kurdan and Kíkánán. He had appointed four Governors (Maliks) in his kingdom: one at Brahminabad; and the fort of Nerun and Debal, Luhánah, Lákhah. Sammah and the river were left under his management. Another at the town of Siwis-tán; and Ladhia, Chingán, the skirts of the hills of Rojhán up to the boundary of Makrán, were given into his charge. The third at the fort of Iskandah; and Báhíah, Stwárah, Jajhór, and the supplementary territories of Dhanód were given in his possession; and the fourth at the town of Multan; and the towns of Sikkah, Karnd, Ishthar and Kíh up to the boundary of Kashmir were en¬trusted to him. The king himself had his headquarters in the city of Aror, retaining Kurdán, Kíkánán, and Bar-hamas directly under his sway."

Chach dynasty:

Gurjara Empire (plenty of Gujjars are present in Pakistan):

Karkota Empire (originated from Kashmir):

Sher Shah Suri's empire (founded by a Pashtun, Pakistan's 2nd largest ethnic group):

Ali Sher Khan Anchan's (he was from Gilgit-Baltistan) territory:

Muslim Kingdom of Mysore (originally came from the Punjab):

I can name even more but I think the above list will suffice. Not only that, but during the Islamic era, plenty of people from the Indus occupied high positions in the Muslim empires (e.g Wazir Khan), and Lahore itself has always been a seat of Islamic power in the region.

 

[Tps43]

Arent i

Definitely u r

 

[Pakistani E]

I doubt it. Muslims and Hindus have, historically speaking, almost never got along. It's not surprising that we still don't.



Pfft, we've ruled over ourselves (and others) numerous times (and I mean from an ethnic perspective, not from a "Muslims are one" perspective, but that works too).

Indus Valley Civilisation:

Early Vedic era:

Rai dynasty as described by the Chachnama:

"The limits of his dominions extended on the east to the boundary of Kashmir, on the west to Makran, on the south to the coast of the sea and Debal, and on the north to the mountains of Kurdan and Kíkánán. He had appointed four Governors (Maliks) in his kingdom: one at Brahminabad; and the fort of Nerun and Debal, Luhánah, Lákhah. Sammah and the river were left under his management. Another at the town of Siwis-tán; and Ladhia, Chingán, the skirts of the hills of Rojhán up to the boundary of Makrán, were given into his charge. The third at the fort of Iskandah; and Báhíah, Stwárah, Jajhór, and the supplementary territories of Dhanód were given in his possession; and the fourth at the town of Multan; and the towns of Sikkah, Karnd, Ishthar and Kíh up to the boundary of Kashmir were en¬trusted to him. The king himself had his headquarters in the city of Aror, retaining Kurdán, Kíkánán, and Bar-hamas directly under his sway."

Chach dynasty:

Gurjara Empire (plenty of Gujjars are present in Pakistan):

Karkota Empire (originated from Kashmir):

Sher Shah Suri's empire (founded by a Pashtun, Pakistan's 2nd largest ethnic group):

Ali Sher Khan Anchan's (he was from Gilgit-Baltistan) territory:

Muslim Kingdom of Mysore (originally came from the Punjab):

I can name even more but I think the above list will suffice. Not only that, but during the Islamic era, plenty of people from the Indus occupied high positions in the Muslim empires (e.g Wazir Khan), and Lahore itself has always been a seat of Islamic power in the region.

I am aware of the above, I was referring specifically to 1947 and Pakistan in the context of Sikh rule. Pakistan would not exist if the British did not defeat the Sikh empire first. Who knows what the map of the Subcontinent would look like without the British.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

We were slaves, they were our Masters

Would that be the Sikh Raj your talking about?

 

[M. Sarmad]

Would that be the Sikh Raj your talking about?

Muslims were never 'slaves' of the Sikhs. They held high positions in the Sikh empire. Ranjit Singh's rule, by all morals, was impartial, humanitarian and lenient towards all societies. He certainly not found it essential to punish even a single individual to decease, not even those who bid to assassinate him.

And, sir, do you know that in the decisive battles of Ferozeshah (1845) against your 'gora' masters (Sir Hugh Gough and Governor-General Sir Henry Hardinge), the Punjab Army gun crews composed entirely of Punjabi Muslims ?

And in the Battle of Sobraon (1846); the Indian waterloo, Sikh commanders (not Muslims) betrayed Punjabis and the British were permitted to reach Lahore on February 26, 1846 as per the 'pre-planned strategy'.


Sikhs and the British were both "Non Muslim" rulers of Punjab. But Sikhs, unlike the Goras, were sons of the soil.
I, for one, consider Gujjar Singh Bhangi (along with Lahina Singh and Sobha Singh) a hero of Punjab as he was the first Punjabi ruler of Punjab after a gap of almost 744 years.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Muslims were never 'slaves' of the Sikhs.

Hey boss, could your Muslims eat meat in your Sikh Raj?

 

[M. Sarmad]

Hey boss, could your Muslims eat meat in your Sikh Raj?

Yes, they could.

As for cow-slaughter, they had religious reasons to ban it.

Sikh Guru Arjan Dev’s body was wrapped by Mughal Emperor Jahangir in cow’s hide to cause more 'offence' to the Sikhs. Ahmed Shah Durrani especially slaughtered cows to desecrate the Harmandir (equivalent of Kaba for sikhs). etc. etc.

(Also, Cow slaughter was banned by some Muslim rulers, including Mughals, as well)

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Yes, they could.

As for cow-slaughter, they had religious reasons to ban it.

Sikh Guru Arjan Dev’s body was wrapped by Mughal Emperor Jahangir in cow’s hide to cause more 'offence' to the Sikhs. Ahmed Shah Durrani especially slaughtered cows to desecrate the Harmandir (equivalent of Kaba for sikhs). etc. etc.

(Also, Cow slaughter was banned by some Muslim rulers, including Mughals, as well)

Sikh's were class A baskets. They knocked down mosques and built Gurdwaras with them. I might overlook all that today for strategic reasons as Hindus are a bigger threat but let there be no illusions. Yes, there were some Muslim sellouts. If Muslims fought for Sikhs, far more fought for British. You attempts to make Sikh Raj as halal cuts no ice with me. Sikhs baskets have even made a movie about Saragiri and their supposed victory on the frontier.

The way your getting on raises the question why did you partition Punjab. Why not continue to enjoy love of your Sikh Raj? Britis rule was far more benign then the blighted Sikh Raj.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Sikh's were class A baskets. They kncoked down mosques and built Gurdwaras with them. I might overlook all that today for strategic reasons as hindus are a bigger threat but let there be no illusions. Yes, there were some Muslim sellouts. If Muslims fought for Sikhs, far more fought for British. You attempts to make Sikh Raj is halal cuts no ice with me. Sikhs baskets have even made a movie about Saragiri and their supposed victory on the frontier.

The way your getting on raises the question why did you partition Punjab. Why not continue to enjoy love of your Sikh Raj? Britis rule was far more benign then the blighted Sikh Raj.

You are entitled to your own opinion. I can understand your 'love' for the British

As for transforming Mughal Masjids into stables, A deplorable act indeed.

But have you forgotten what Ahmad Shah Abdali did to Gurdawaras, esp. the holiest of them for Sikhs, the Golden Temple; blew up the building and filled the pond with 'trash'. Have you forgotten what Mughal Kings did to Sikh Gurus and their children?

Ranjit Singh, later on, handed Muslims most of their mosques back. He even gifted all Nowadrat (Islamic Relics) to the respectable Fakir Family (of Lahore) instead of destroying or desecrating them. Today, Fakir Khana is the largest privately owned museum in South Asia.

And as for partition, Punjab bore the brunt of it

====
@Joe Shearer
Sir, what are your views on British Raj?

 

[Jackdaws]

I doubt it. Muslims and Hindus have, historically speaking, almost never got along. It's not surprising that we still don't.



Pfft, we've ruled over ourselves (and others) numerous times (and I mean from an ethnic perspective, not from a "Muslims are one" perspective, but that works too).

Indus Valley Civilisation:

Early Vedic era:

Rai dynasty as described by the Chachnama:

"The limits of his dominions extended on the east to the boundary of Kashmir, on the west to Makran, on the south to the coast of the sea and Debal, and on the north to the mountains of Kurdan and Kíkánán. He had appointed four Governors (Maliks) in his kingdom: one at Brahminabad; and the fort of Nerun and Debal, Luhánah, Lákhah. Sammah and the river were left under his management. Another at the town of Siwis-tán; and Ladhia, Chingán, the skirts of the hills of Rojhán up to the boundary of Makrán, were given into his charge. The third at the fort of Iskandah; and Báhíah, Stwárah, Jajhór, and the supplementary territories of Dhanód were given in his possession; and the fourth at the town of Multan; and the towns of Sikkah, Karnd, Ishthar and Kíh up to the boundary of Kashmir were en¬trusted to him. The king himself had his headquarters in the city of Aror, retaining Kurdán, Kíkánán, and Bar-hamas directly under his sway."

Chach dynasty:

Gurjara Empire (plenty of Gujjars are present in Pakistan):

Karkota Empire (originated from Kashmir):

Sher Shah Suri's empire (founded by a Pashtun, Pakistan's 2nd largest ethnic group):

Ali Sher Khan Anchan's (he was from Gilgit-Baltistan) territory:

Muslim Kingdom of Mysore (originally came from the Punjab):

I can name even more but I think the above list will suffice. Not only that, but during the Islamic era, plenty of people from the Indus occupied high positions in the Muslim empires (e.g Wazir Khan), and Lahore itself has always been a seat of Islamic power in the region.

Actually they got along reasonably well. The whole point of Partition according to Jinnah was that the 2 "nations" could peacefully coexist.

 

[Hamza913]

Actually they got along reasonably well.

 

[Jackdaws]

I know admitting it kinda pours cold water on your belief that Hindus and Muslims are in a constant state of war.

From what I understand Hindus today are about 10% population of Sindh. Are they constantly fighting with the Muslims or are they living peacefully?