Was British Raj actually good for South Asia?

[Kamikaze Pilot]

Please throw light on this matter and vote in the poll.

Edit-Clarify: The thread is not about creation of India or Pakistan. The question is whether the people of hundreds or thousands of princely states - that existed before British arrival – had been happier before British rule and would they have been happier today in 2019 if British Raj hadn't happened. How were the societies of South Asia without the British? So don't give the refrain of 'No Brits No India or Pakistan'.

 

[Menthol]

I guess the answer is yes.

 

[faithfulguy]

Without the British, India would not be created. Pretty much each Indian states would be its own country.

But this is assuming if other Europeans didnt conquered part of India. India could be divided like Africa today as well, border drawn by Europeans.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

It was good for the two products of the Raj. India and Pakistan. It's like asking two kids was their parent good? Maybe the parent might not be perfect but they certainly would not exist without their parent.

And no Raj. No India or Pakistan. Simple as that.

 

[Pakistani E]

For my part of the world, yes. If it weren't for the British, the Sikhs would probably still be ruling over me and mine. Thank you Britain for getting rid of our oppressor.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

For my part of the world, yes. If it weren't for the British, the Sikhs would probably still be ruling over me and mine. Thank you Britain for getting rid of our oppressor.

Bingo.

 

[Pakistani E]

Bingo.

I'm waiting for "yOu ARe GhaDaR, AnD SelLoUt", replies to my post.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I'm waiting for "yOu ARe GhaDaR, AnD SelLoUt", replies to my post.

True. But I think they live in the illusion that are descendants of various Muslim kingdoms in South Asia that were taken down by the British like Tipu Sultan's.

What they overlook is vast mjority of Pakistani's were and would have continued to 'enjoy' Sikh Raj had British not arrived on the Indus in 1849. So the choice is either Sikh Raj or British Raj. By coming under British Raj in 1849 it set the scene for 98 years later independance as Pakistan in 1947.

 

[faithfulguy]

True. But I think they live in the illusion that are descendants of various Muslim kingdoms in South Asia that were taken down by the British like Tipu Sultan's.

What they overlook is vast mjority of Pakistani's were and would have continued to 'enjoy' Sikh Raj had British not arrived on the Indus in 1849. So the choice is either Sikh Raj or British Raj. By coming under British Raj in 1849 it set the scene for 98 years later independance as Pakistan in 1947.

Or another European powers could be in control of Indus valley. Even Russian could swept through or around Afghanistan and reach Indus valley.

One could ask what would have happened if the French win the seven year war. That is the war that set the stage for British ascendancy.

 

[Pakistani E]

True. But I think they live in the illusion that are descendants of various Muslim kingdoms in South Asia that were taken down by the British like Tipu Sultan's.

What they overlook is vast mjority of Pakistani's were and would have continued to 'enjoy' Sikh Raj had British not arrived on the Indus in 1849. So the choice is either Sikh Raj or British Raj. By coming under British Raj in 1849 it set the scene for 98 years later independance as Pakistan in 1947.

Agreed. On top of this, the British carried out extensive infrastructure projects and through the use of social engineering, irrigation protects and canal colonization, leading to twenty six million acres being watered by canals.

For example, before the British, it was only possible to cultivate areas which had accesse to irrigation through seasonal canals and ground water from wells. Through the constructions of these canals, tens of thousands of acres were irrigated, especially around major population centres such as Amritsar, Lahore and Gurdaspur. Between 1885-1947, the brilliant allocation of resources helped create a boom in canal colonies and spurred economic growth and settlement of what were before, barren stretches of land.

I don't know if other people find this stuff as interesting as I do, but I read, that in 1887, the total irrigated by major canels was around 1.4 million acres. By 1921, this was 10.4 million acres. Pakistani Punjab, as we know it, will not even exist if it weren't for the British.

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

It was good for the two products of the Raj. India and Pakistan. It's like asking two kids was their parent good? Maybe the parent might not be perfect but they certainly would not exist without their parent.

And no Raj. No India or Pakistan. Simple as that.

Question clarified. See above.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Or another European powers could be in control of Indus valley. Even Russian could swept through or around Afghanistan and reach Indus valley.

One could ask what would have happened if the French win the seven year war. That is the war that set the stage for British ascendancy.

Agreed. I know this is speculation but I think if British had not arrived on the Indus by 1849 the Russians would have kept on their relentless drive to the south east which had seen them at Amu Darya river by 1870s. No doubt without the British to dissuade them they would have kept moving south into Afghanistan and arrived on Indus Pakistan by about 1890s. Today we would have been another ex-Russian 'Stan' speaking Russian like Uzbekistan or Tajikistan.

So either Sikh Raj or Russian Raj. Take your pick.

 

[Jackdaws]

To put things in perspective - before British rule, almost an absolute absence of famines. During British rule, a famine every 4 years. Since independence, 0 famines.

A systematic destruction of the village ecosystem. Forcible growing of crops which could fuel British industries.

Segregation with "white only" enclaves.

And the final bloodbath of Partition. They had a mandate to finish Partition till July 1948. The Brits brought that date forward. What could have been done surgically, was done with the knife of a butcher. We are still fighting. If Partition had happened in a sane manner, we would have been living peacefully.

Every country had problems - Brits did good things like removing Sati but even that was done because of efforts by reformers like Raja Ram Mohan Roy.

Japan wasn't colonized. But it took advantage of the industrial revolution and by the 1940s was a force to be reckoned with.

And I haven't even begun on the scale of the economic drain.

The fact that this question is even asked is shocking.

Praising the Brits for the Raj is like praising the Nazis for the Reich. Heck, Hitler even considered the Raj to be a blueprint for the Reich.

Forget the ones who opposed them. Even the ones who served them were not spared.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep/01/india.military

@Joe Shearer is the resident expert. So he can enlighten you more.

 

[faithfulguy]

Agreed. I know this is speculation but I think if British had not arrived on the Indus by 1849 the Russians would have kept on their relentless drive to the south east which had seen them at Amu Darya river by 1870s. No doubt without the British to dissuade them they would have kept moving south into Afghanistan and arrived on Indus Pakistan by about 1890s. Today we would have been another ex-Russian 'Stan' speaking Russian like Uzbekistan or Tajikistan.

So either Sikh Raj or Russian Raj. Take your pick.

Very good analysis of the great game. And it starts with British colonization of South Asia and Russian expansion into Siberia.

Unfortunately, Indians fancy themselves as a player in the new great game. Even though India is just a pawn. Another tool for the great powers in today’s new great game.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

almost an absolute absence of famines

And you lived through that period did you? Our awareness of what was happening, recording of who was who, how many of us were there began in earnest after British arrived. Do you really think the British counted on your hands could have taken over South Asia if 5% of the story sold by Shashi Tharoor was true. Prosperous, advanced people don't get taken over.