Ward off espionage :India to design a home-grown microprocessor

[Han Patriot]

1. I have asked you to provide a document which proves that China has locally designed processors.

2. I have also said that I accept that AJIT is SPARC and Shakti is RISC-V, i.e. both are not local to India.

So it's acceptable for you to quote wiki and not me? Haha. It's a proprierty ISA as per report from Jack Dongorra and not a commercial chip. It's used in Chinese HPC ecosystem. And again I reiterate, how does using open source ISA make a chip less indigenous? It's like saying you cannot program something because C+ is from US. The point here is India cannot fabricate nor design a processor up to curent standards. At most late 80s chip and even then you gave a lab instead of a real fab to make them. Try using shakti or ajit fir HPCs. Lol

Your point doesn't remove the fact that Chinese cell phones use ARM and not "indigenous Chinese processors" if they exist.

And what do consumers have to do with Chinese companies using ARM processors ??

Since when did I say our cellphones are using local cores? I guess you cannot differentiate cores to processors righf? Today's processors are much mors complex from 80s chips, its more competitive to use arm core as do 90% of all cellphone manufacturers. But this is about to change after Huawei case. Your argument was that since China dont use our own cores in cellphone, thus our local chips don't exist. We weren't arguing about whether China phones use local cores btw. Consumers have nothing to do with arm cores? Gr8 trying putting ASHIT chips and see if ppl buy it. Lololol

Since when am I communist? Explain to me how is China communist when it is clearly a state capitalistic authoritarian government? Yoh need to get some basics on comumism boy.

 

[jamahir]

So it's acceptable for you to quote wiki and not me? Haha. It's a proprierty ISA as per report from Jack Dongorra and not a commercial chip.

That part is confusing.

Jack Dongarra states about the follow-on SW26010, the "Shenwei-64 Instruction Set (this is NOT related to the DEC Alpha instruction set)", and doesn't say it's a new instruction set from the three prior generations he names; although precise details of the instruction set are unknown.

And again I reiterate, how does using open source ISA make a chip less indigenous?

The only thing that seems to be indigenous about ShenWei is the fabrication.

Try using shakti or ajit fir HPCs. Lol

There is a Shakti version for HPC :

H-Class

SoC configuration aimed at highly parallel enterprise, HPC and analytics workloads. The cores can be a combination of C or I class, single thread performance driving the core choice. Optional L4 caches and an optimized memory hierarchy is key to achieving a high memory bandwidth The architecture thrust is on accelerators, VPU and AI/ML and an mesh SoC fabric optimized for up to 128 cores with multiple accelerators per core. Close integration with an external Gen-Z fabric is a key part of the design, as is support for storage class memory. This aspect of the design is crucial since I/O and memory bandwidth is often the bottleneck for these classes of processors.

Since when did I say our cellphones are using local cores? I guess you cannot differentiate cores to processors righf? Today's processors are much mors complex from 80s chips, its more competitive to use arm core as do 90% of all cellphone manufacturers.

How is it competitive ??

But this is about to change after Huawei case.

Please explain.

Consumers have nothing to do with arm cores?

The processor in a cell phone is irrelevant to the consumer who will buy a cell based on outside specs ( camera, OS etc ).

Gr8 trying putting ASHIT chips and see if ppl buy it. Lololol

AJIT is not a general purpose processor :

AJIT’s features can be compared to many of the microprocessors of its size available in today’s market. Unlike the ones used in the desktops like the Intel’s Xeon, AJIT is a medium-sized processor. It can be used inside a set-top box, as a control panel for automation systems, in a traffic light controller or even robotic systems. What’s more, the researchers expect that AJIT will cost as less as ₹100 when it is produced en-masse! AJIT can run one instruction per clock cycle and can operate at clock speeds between 70-120MHz, comparable to its competitors in the market.

And I have never claimed that the design of AJIT or Shakti are indigenous to India.

Since when am I communist? Explain to me how is China communist when it is clearly a state capitalistic authoritarian government? Yoh need to get some basics on comumism boy.

So the Communist Party of China is irrelevant ??

 

[Han Patriot]

That part is confusing.

The only thing that seems to be indigenous about ShenWei is the fabrication.

It's a simple statement, but you can choose to be confused. Lol. You can assume the ISA to be 'foreign' but the microarchitecture? Come on...

There is a Shakti version for HPC :

How is it competitive ??

Please explain.

'envisioned'? That's future tense in hindoo speak. Hahahhaha. This sakti chip is a 400mhz chip, fabricated by intel and you expect that to be used on current HPCs?

The processor in a cell phone is irrelevant to the consumer who will buy a cell based on outside specs ( camera, OS etc ).

AJIT is not a general purpose processor :

OK if brand is not important, then try developing a cell version of ASHIT and see if ppl buy it.

And I have never claimed that the design of AJIT or Shakti are indigenous to India.

So the Communist Party of China is irrelevant ??

Then stop talking about it and comparing it to ours. Don't equate your half baked endeavours to ours. The party is relevant, the name isn't. DPRK is a democratic Republic, get it!?

 

[jamahir]

You can assume the ISA to be 'foreign' but the microarchitecture? Come on...

It is the ISA which differentiates one processor from another, say Intel x86 from ARM, and MIPS in the case of ShenWei.

So you accept that the ShenWei is not indigenous to China ??

This sakti chip is a 400mhz chip

One version of Shakti, called the "I Class" has a target operating range ( their terminology ) of 1.5 to 2.5 GHz.

OK if brand is not important, then try developing a cell version of ASHIT and see if ppl buy it.

I never said that AJIT is a very capable chip. It is you who found something to joke about its name ( AJIT to ASHIT ) and are mentioning that name again and again.

But do tell me how does the consumer decide the processor to be used in a cell phone ( ARM as you said ).

The party is relevant, the name isn't.

Below are your precise words :

Since when am I communist? Explain to me how is China communist when it is clearly a state capitalistic authoritarian government? Yoh need to get some basics on comumism boy.

Now tell me, do you believe in the legitimacy of the Communist Party of China or not ??

 

[PeacefulWar]

In Pakistan, Govt gives subsidy on fertilizers, buy crops to increase prices, almost zero tax, subsidy to give loans, now starting insurance following india, subsidized electricity for tube well in some areas, interest free loans for water distribution system and still growth rate of crops is falling.
My father is cultivating 13 acres of land sitting 250km away in another city having just one part time worker. Still earn enough profit. Now imagine our 90% farmers are cultivating land below 20 acres. Farming is excessive wastage of human resources.
Indo-pak needs to follow China model. Listen Arvind Subramaryum on this topic on YouTube. You will learn how much farming cost us.

I don't know where do you get the delusion that it's the China model.
IT'S NOT!
And your opinion on farmers are RIDICULOUS.
Almost all countries in this planet subside farmers including China.
It's a nature thing of population transition from agriculture to industry AS LONG AS your industry can offer that many jobs. Not to purposely bankrupt farmers.

 

[Han Patriot]

It is the ISA which differentiates one processor from another, say Intel x86 from ARM, and MIPS in the case of ShenWei.

So you accept that the ShenWei is not indigenous to China ??

I think you have some understanding problem, no wonder everything seems confusing, lol. I just told u the opposite. ISA only defines a part of a chip, if your logic is true then amd and intel chips would b the same. Shenwei uses a propriety ISA and microarchitecture , please don't let me repeat.

One version of Shakti, called the "I Class" has a target operating range ( their terminology ) of 1.5 to 2.5 GHz.

Lol, so where is this chip now? Another new Indian future tense term 'target'. Lolol

I never said that AJIT is a very capable chip. It is you who found something to joke about its name ( AJIT to ASHIT ) and are mentioning that name again and again.

But do tell me how does the consumer decide the processor to be used in a cell phone ( ARM as you said ).

I just explained to you how, you can try selling your phone powered by ASHIT cores and see if anyone would buy it.

Below are your precise words :


Now tell me, do you believe in the legitimacy of the Communist Party of China or not ??

Again, you seem to have an understanding problem, i said there is no issue with that parties legitimacy but they need a name change since their system is not communist at all. I think you still do not understand that Communism is an economic concept not political.

 

[jamahir]

i said there is no issue with that parties legitimacy but they need a name change since their system is not communist at all.

Then tell the party that. Start a movement even.

I just explained to you how, you can try selling your phone powered by ASHIT cores and see if anyone would buy it.

Why are you coming to AJIT again and again ??

You didn't tell me how does a consumer decide what processor goes into a cell phone. I am asking you this for the third time.

 

[Han Patriot]

Then tell the party that. Start a movement even.

Why are you coming to AJIT again and again ??

You didn't tell me how does a consumer decide what processor goes into a cell phone ?? I am asking you this for the third time.

I just told you the third time try selling ASHIT cores from India and see if consumers will buy it. I already told the local party officer, they said the name is a legacy issue, need some time to change. Hahah

 

[jamahir]

I just told you the third time try selling ASHIT cores from India and see if consumers will buy it.

No, I will try selling Kirin cores from China. Wait, Kirin uses ARM.

I already told the local party officer, they said the name is a legacy issue, need some time to change. Hahah

Then I will ask you to do a video interview with the same local party officer, with English subtitles and link it on this forum. I am interested in what the Party has to say about the present and the near-future.

 

[Han Patriot]

No, I will try selling Kirin cores from China. Wait, Kirin uses ARM.



Then I will ask you to do a video interview with the same local party officer, with English subtitles and link it on this forum. I am interested in what the Party has to say about the present and the near-future.

Exactly kirin uses arm cores... You can be the first to market ASHIT cores for Indian phones. Oooooo wait India is dominated by Chinese phones. Lolololol.

Sure, give me your private email and I will send it to you comrade. Lol

 

[jamahir]

Exactly kirin uses arm cores

So you accept the foreign origin of China's microprocessors. At least in your cell phones.

Sure, give me your private email and I will send it to you comrade. Lol

No, link or upload it here. Don't you want the forum's visitors and members to watch it ??

You can be the first to market ASHIT cores for Indian phones.

If you had bothered to read the Shakti processors link you would have seen the I-Class variant whose one of the targets is "Mobile". I will assume they are talking about cell phones.

So, if Shakti is actually the international open source project, RISC-V, I don't see any Chinese processor also which is indigenous.

 

[Han Patriot]

So you accept the foreign origin of China's microprocessors. At least in your cell phones.

I accept chips made in China on perpetual ARM core license. If US bans us, we will still be manufacturing it for self sufficiency. The same can't be said about your country. We have the choice of Shenwei ISA RISCV ISA, or perpetual ARM license, I dont see a problem.

No, link or upload it here. Don't you want the forum's visitors and members to watch it ??

No, I want to share this intimate session only with you. Lol

If you had bothered to read the Shakti processors link you would have seen the I-Class variant whose one of the targets is "Mobile". I will assume they are talking about cell phones.

So, if Shakti is actually the international open source project, RISC-V, I don't see any Chinese processor also which is indigenous.

If you only bothered to read the word 'targeted'. That's FUTURE tense. we have our own ISA and our own microarchitecture and also fab. You have none, maybe except a 400mhz microarchitecture.

 

[serenity]

We are starting to get fabrication running. Lithography breakthroughs in last few years and we join Netherlands and Japan in only countries having photolithography technologies. Not quite 5nm yet but from 10 years ago when we had no fab, it is an improvement.

ARM is fine. I don't get the problem. It's like the Americans designed a good wheel design for space rovers, we understand totally how to use that design and make it, we make it ourselves in unlimited numbers. Don't need to spend money and time to reinvent the wheel yet it is not really priority when other areas are behind. We are focusing on fabrication at the moment and making commercial chips that can compete with Korea, Taiwan, and USA. Communication chips and modems also being focused to ride wave of 5G era and networked city living between self driving bus and cars to feed data from everywhere. Consumer business facilitations. These things are priority. Before our super computers even use intel chips but it's not the chips that make a supercomputer otherwise many countries can build them. Just like using ARM cores. Soon when other areas catch up or maintain top positions like 5G, and if better designs can be done, I think gradually we will see Chinese replace ARM.

These problems really started when Chinese industry failed to be self relying. Because the best chips could be purchased and makes Chinese electronics competitive for example computers or smart phones, they don't move towards making own. Now USA cutting some supplies or threaten to, immediately the government tell off these businesses for being too trusting and no long term thinking. Since two years ago, the efforts really increased. Before that, the movement was slow.