Ward off espionage :India to design a home-grown microprocessor

[Soumitra]

In Pakistan, Govt gives subsidy on fertilizers, buy crops to increase prices, almost zero tax, subsidy to give loans, now starting insurance following india, subsidized electricity for tube well in some areas, interest free loans for water distribution system and still growth rate of crops is falling.
My father is cultivating 13 acres of land sitting 250km away in another city having just one part time worker. Still earn enough profit. Now imagine our 90% farmers are cultivating land below 20 acres. Farming is excessive wastage of human resources.
Indo-pak needs to follow China model. Listen Arvind Subramaryum on this topic on YouTube. You will learn how much farming cost us.

And then there are people like @jamahir who romanticize farmers

Farming can be big business and earning opportunity with all the tax breaks and subsidies and private companies lining up to buy the produce (McDonald's has contract farming for potatoes, ITC for wheat). But all that will happen when 20 people don't till 1 acre of land

 

[Adonis]

Blocking a DDoS is not complicated esp if it comes from China.
All you need to do is put a filter to all the Chinese IP address.

The trouble is when you are hacked and some one places a worm in your network infrastructure, for example in the processor or the NIC.

And I think this is where the chip comes to use.

This has really stopped making sense to me :p

1. In DDoS, IPs are spoofed. You don't see it coming from China unless the hacker is a novice.

2. Worms are designed to propagate in the NW to do a harm, they don't remain confined to NIC/ASIC or a processor. Once in NW, these days anti-malware controls can detect them. Even HIPS are smart enough to analyse the inbound and outbound traffic pattern on the host machine and trigger alarm, block it if finding it suspicious.

3. Chip will do what?

 

[jamahir]

And then there are people like @jamahir who romanticize farmers

Farming can be big business and earning opportunity with all the tax breaks and subsidies and private companies lining up to buy the produce (McDonald's has contract farming for potatoes, ITC for wheat). But all that will happen when 20 people don't till 1 acre of land

I am not romanticizing farmers. I am just pointing to the openly known but ignored tragedy in India of 300,000 farmers having committed suicide between 1995 and 2015, and counting. All for the sake of an actually minor thing called money.

The problem of agriculture in India is that the farms are small which doesn't allow big profits. What should exist instead are large farms that are farmed collectively like in the USSR. Say 10 farmers for a large farm.

Further, farming methods should be modernized. Venezuela has experimented with Urban Farming and there are experiments in USA in Vertical Farms. I have before posted on PDF about neighborhood-level Vertical Farms where the workers are educated youth who will contribute to the VFs as part of their duties in the neighborhood. The
older method of agriculture must end.

Further, rural areas must be turned into towns by gathering the population of say, 10 villages, and building a new township for them. Village culture must be abolished. And these new villages must again have UFs and VFs.

@Adil Khan Kakar

 

[Han Patriot]

10 yearz on and no homemade processor.

 

[k s ahmed]

we want from india producing procesors to DDOS and farming ? really ?
india might take lead in this sector too.. They are just going on and on.. and us pakistanis arent doing enough action

 

[jamahir]

we want from india producing procesors to DDOS and farming ? really ?

Well, the DDOS part came because the Government of India wants hack-tolerant computer systems for government, scientific and military needs. And the farmers part came in me saying that the Indian IT / ITES industry needs employee unions.

10 yearz on and no homemade processor.

Yes but even the Chinese don't have a home-made processor. China's Loongson processor is actually the American MIPS design.

 

[Adil Khan Kakar]

I am not romanticizing farmers. I am just pointing to the openly known but ignored tragedy in India of 300,000 farmers having committed suicide between 1995 and 2015, and counting. All for the sake of an actually minor thing called money.

The problem of agriculture in India is that the farms are small which doesn't allow big profits. What should exist instead are large farms that are farmed collectively like in the USSR. Say 10 farmers for a large farm.

Further, farming methods should be modernized. Venezuela has experimented with Urban Farming and there are experiments in USA in Vertical Farms. I have before posted on PDF about neighborhood-level Vertical Farms where the workers are educated youth who will contribute to the VFs as part of their duties in the neighborhood. The
older method of agriculture must end.

Further, rural areas must be turned into towns by gathering the population of say, 10 villages, and building a new township for them. Village culture must be abolished. And these new villages must again have UFs and VFs.

@Adil Khan Kakar

There are a lot of techniques in world which can be used to increase crop yield but our poor illiterate farmers cannot do it. And govt is rewarding their failure in terms of subsidies. These subsidies are not sustainable in long term. It is very very unpopular but only solution. Let farmers fail. Let's treat farming a business. Let the fittest win

 

[Han Patriot]

industry needs employee unions.



Yes but even the Chinese don't have a home-made processor. China's Loongson processor is actually the American MIPS design.

Shenwei uses a propriety ISA and microarchitecture and it is fabricated in China. We are not Indians, we do more than we talk. Lol

 

[jamahir]

Shenwei uses a propriety ISA and microarchitecture

The below documents say otherwise.

From Wikipedia entry for ShenWei :

The Sunway series microprocessors were developed mainly for the use of the military of the People's Republic of China. It is expressed on online forums that the original microarchitecture is believed to be inspired by the DEC Alpha. The SW-3 is thought especially to be based on the Alpha 21164

From another article :

There's still is some mystery to China's latest homegrown chip. It is a 64-bit RISC processor, which Top500 speculates is based on the DEC Alpha architecture.

Not quite indigenous.

 

[Han Patriot]

The below documents say otherwise.

From Wikipedia entry for ShenWei :



From another article :


Not quite indigenous.

You can speculate based on wikipedia but the chip is made and designed in China without any IP paid. India cant make any cutting edge processors except 1980s derivatives of intel chips.

You don't even have a real fab fir god sake

 

[jamahir]

You can speculate based on wikipedia but the chip is made and designed in China without any IP paid.

Please point me to a document which clearly says that ShenWei is local to China.

Also, why do Chinese cell phone makers, say OPPO, use ARM processor instead of mini versions of ShenWei ??

India cant make any cutting edge processors except 1980s derivatives of intel chips.

I agree, which is why I bumped this 2009 thread in this post.

Of course, there is currently the AJIT processor from IIT-Bombay and Shakti processor from IIT-Madras but the former is basically the SPARC design and the latter is RISC-V.

You don't even have a real fab fir god sake

I know that there is no mass fab in India, but there is a government mini fab called SCL whose purpose is to manufacture electronics ( including minimal processors ) for military, scientific and space needs. The "India Microprocessor Program" mentioned in the OP calls for a better processor than the ones currently manufactured by SCL.

 

[Han Patriot]

Please point me to a document which clearly says that ShenWei is local to China.SCL.

Then prove to me it isn't, Alpha inspired, doesn't mean it isn't Chinese. As a measure of independence, you can cut off China from the world and we could still make it. Even your so called MIPS, that's just the ISA, sorta like programming language, we can still mass produce it in times of war. SCL is more like a lab rather than a real fab, that's why you can only produce 1980s junk low tech and low efficiency . Ajit? Whatever shit can't compare to cutting edge Chinese and US chips.



The same reason why qualcomm uses arm cores, consumer demand. Almost all cell makers EXCEPT APPLE uses arm cores. We use godson and Shenwei for government military and strategic projects. If need arises, we can mass produce domestic chips for domestic computers. Try using Ajit fir that... Hahaahh

India cant make nor design cutting edge chips, the most you can do is do backend design for Intel, core tech is with US.[/QUOTE]

 

[jamahir]

Alpha inspired, doesn't mean it isn't Chinese.

The Wiki page and that article insinuate that ShenWei is more than DEC-inspired. ShenWei seems to have been copied from DEC Alpha.

The SW-3 is thought especially to be based on the Alpha 21164

As a measure of independence, you can cut off China from the world and we could still make it. Even your so called MIPS, that's just the ISA, sorta like programming language, we can still mass produce it in times of war.

That I agree.

Other than the fabs, China I think is the top producer of Rare Earth minerals.

SCL is more like a lab rather than a real fab, that's why you can only produce 1980s junk low tech and low efficiency .

I myself have said that SCL's production is for a limited area of application, mainly for high-reliability boards and chips.

And I have said elsewhere on the forum that India, which is a middle-income country, should have long established a commericial fab.

The same reason why qualcomm uses arm cores, consumer demand. Almost all cell makers EXCEPT APPLE uses arm cores.

Excuses.

Chinese cell phone companies like OPPO I think have the largest share of consumers. Surely these companies could have used local processors ( if such were available ).

India cant make nor design cutting edge chips, the most you can do is do backend design for Intel, core tech is with US.

I myself have been designing a microprocessor ( 32-bit, RISC, clock-less ) for some time. I can safely claim that it is entirely a design local to India.

 

[Han Patriot]

The Wiki page and that article insinuate that ShenWei is more than DEC-inspired. ShenWei seems to have been copied from DEC Alpha.

It would be good if you do not have selectuve vision and read your same wiki source again. Read the part about the propriety ISA too and the word 'thought' is not really convincing isn't it? Haha. Btw, still doesn't prove India can produce or design cutting edge chips, i googled your ajit chip and almost vomitted laughing.

That I agree.

Other than the fabs, China I think is the top producer of Rare Earth minerals.

I am not sure what they teach you in school. What does rare earth got go do with processors? The basic ingredient is silicon and gold. Only minute amount is used in the processes, having rare earth does not translate into the ability to produce or design chips.

I myself have said that SCL's production is for a limited area of application, mainly for high-reliability boards and chips.

They produce low tech chips using medieval processes, i am not sure about reliability since most indian components are imported. Will have a few showcase components for some hoohah but thatz about it.

Excuses.

Chinese cell phone companies like OPPO I think have the largest share of consumers. Surely these companies could have used local processors ( if such were available ).

Excuses? So when am I seeing an Indian chip on cellphones, even one using arm cores, NONE. Don't give me excuses ok. Lol

I myself have been designing a microprocessor ( 32-bit, RISC, clock-less ) for some time. I can safely claim that it is entirely a design local to India.

Sure I believe you.... Still waiting for you to design one for India tho. Lol

 

[jamahir]

It would be good if you do not have selectuve vision and read your same wiki source again. Read the part about the propriety ISA too and the word 'thought' is not really convincing isn't it? Haha. Btw, still doesn't prove India can produce or design cutting edge chips, i googled your ajit chip and almost vomitted laughing.

1. I have asked you to provide a document which proves that China has locally designed processors.

2. I have also said that I accept that AJIT is SPARC and Shakti is RISC-V, i.e. both are not local to India.

Excuses? So when am I seeing an Indian chip on cellphones, even one using arm cores, NONE. Don't give me excuses ok. Lol

Your point doesn't remove the fact that Chinese cell phones use ARM and not "indigenous Chinese processors" if they exist.

And what do consumers have to do with Chinese companies using ARM processors ??

Also, your user-name ( Han Patriot ) reveals a closed mind ?? Don't you like Communism which is pan-humanity ??